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dquancey
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July 10, 2017, 08:38:36 AM |
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Great news, does it state the reasons why?
Accepting more forms of currency like this can only help businesses, but I have a feeling that when companies start accepting BTC, it's because a high level exec is invested in Bitcoin and pushes it through.
Like I say, this isn't a bad thing, as it's win/win for everyone, but would like to know the reasoning behind it.
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ethereumhunter
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July 10, 2017, 08:45:54 AM |
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yes this is a great news for people from germany so they can used their bitcoin to pay. i am sure that the other company will follow as the company is the second biggest company in germany and people will be know about bitcoin and using bitcoin. soon the government will be realize that bitcoin giving a good impact for the people economy and makes peoples life easy with bitcoin.
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..Stake.com.. | | | ▄████████████████████████████████████▄ ██ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██ ▄████▄ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██████████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ██████ ██ ██████████ ██ ██ ██████████ ██ ▀██▀ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ █████ ███ ██████ ██ ████▄ ██ ██ █████ ███ ████ ████ █████ ███ ████████ ██ ████ ████ ██████████ ████ ████ ████▀ ██ ██████████ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████ ██ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ▀█████████▀ ▄████████████▄ ▀█████████▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███ ██ ██ ███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████████████████████████████████████ | | | | | | ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄ █ ▄▀▄ █▀▀█▀▄▄ █ █▀█ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▄██▄ █ ▌ █ █ ▄██████▄ █ ▌ ▐▌ █ ██████████ █ ▐ █ █ ▐██████████▌ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▀▀██████▀▀ █ ▌ █ █ ▄▄▄██▄▄▄ █ ▌▐▌ █ █▐ █ █ █▐▐▌ █ █▐█ ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀█ | | | | | | ▄▄█████████▄▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄█▀ ▐█▌ ▀█▄ ██ ▐█▌ ██ ████▄ ▄█████▄ ▄████ ████████▄███████████▄████████ ███▀ █████████████ ▀███ ██ ███████████ ██ ▀█▄ █████████ ▄█▀ ▀█▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄▄▄█▀ ▀███████ ███████▀ ▀█████▄ ▄█████▀ ▀▀▀███▄▄▄███▀▀▀ | | | ..PLAY NOW.. |
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Wesimon
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July 10, 2017, 08:49:27 AM |
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Though it is only in Germany, still this is a great news for everyone. Somehow it will trigger other comompanies to do the same thing. Which will cause bitcoin to get known. And if that happen, many investors will have interest in bitcoin. This will help increase the value of bitcoin as well.
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alyssa85
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July 10, 2017, 10:10:30 AM |
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It IS great news. But it will only help bitcoin if people actually start using btc to pay for their energy.
We have seen so many of these announcements in the past, but sadly the bitcoin community refuses to spend bitcoins, and then a few years down the line the provider removes the ability to pay with bitcoin (as no-one uses it and it's too much of a hassle to maintain the option for non-existent customers).
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Adbitco
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July 10, 2017, 10:20:44 AM |
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It's really a good news not only for the people of Germany but the entire bitcoin community. I am sure that there are more people in Germany using bitcoin who may have demanded the energy provider to accept bitcoin as one of payment options and that's why they announced it and it's a good sign for bitcoin's growing adoption and acceptance, the more people get involved in bitcoin the stronger it will grow. Good news for all of us bitcoin enthusiasts, thanks for sharing.
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Cuber Krypton
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July 10, 2017, 10:34:45 AM |
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Great great news!
One less variable for miners in Austria. No exchange rate costs.
Bitcoin should strive for this solutions. No value leakage.
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bitmanReturns
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July 10, 2017, 11:01:14 AM |
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That is pretty great actually. This just shows that the world is showing more acceptance towards digital currencies. This will cause an increase in demand for BTC in Germany.
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niisarearning
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July 10, 2017, 01:13:26 PM |
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Its really good news for bitcoin holders and bitcoin investors . Country like germany and austria supporting bitcoina nd even energy company and biggest food delivery comapny also . But How they convert bitcoin for the services there should be pretty good software or apps to do that.
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Conasse
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July 10, 2017, 01:54:50 PM |
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It's a good news for them. Are they accepting Bitcoin directly or are they using a 3rd party to receive theirs Bitcoins ?
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Bouffe ma chatte, pas la planète!
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webweave
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July 10, 2017, 02:05:08 PM |
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Great news, This can do bitcoin only good.
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chixka000
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July 10, 2017, 02:09:46 PM |
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Fully bitcoin dependency? Hmm im starting to like it. I just wonder how much would it cost me in the energy alone if i am going to start mining in Australia and when can i get my ROI
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xFiber
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July 10, 2017, 02:26:15 PM |
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Great news I guess. I see these kinds of stories pop up everywhere these days. That illustrates that bitcoin is actively gaining more and more ground. Hopefully we can get keep this trend going.
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Kprawn
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July 10, 2017, 03:09:46 PM |
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A few years ago, people were saying if you cannot pay your utility bills with bitcoin, then it is not a real currency. We have seen more than one company that allows you to do that now, so we are steadily moving forward towards mainstream adoption. I hope that we will seen more of this type of news, as bitcoin adoption increase in the future. We just need to find a way to do this without using third party services.
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stompix
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July 10, 2017, 03:41:12 PM Last edit: July 10, 2017, 10:38:09 PM by stompix |
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yes this is a great news for people from germany
It's Austria. Though it is only in Germany,
It's Austria. It's really a good news not only for the people of Germany
It's Austria. This will cause an increase in demand for BTC in Germany.
It's Austria. Secondary. Wann es für die rund 500.000 Stromkunden so weit sein könnte, dass sie ihre Rechnung mit Bitcoin oder einer anderen Kryptowährung begleichen können, wagt Kolar keine Prognose. "Hier spielen auch Vorschriften und Regularien eine Rolle. Da ist noch einiges zu klären", sagt Kolar. (hn) Read the damn article and use google translate if you don't know the language !!!!!!
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. .BLACKJACK ♠ FUN. | | | ███▄██████ ██████████████▀ ████████████ █████████████████ ████████████████▄▄ ░█████████████▀░▀▀ ██████████████████ ░██████████████ █████████████████▄ ░██████████████▀ ████████████ ███████████████░██ ██████████ | | CRYPTO CASINO & SPORTS BETTING | | │ | | │ | ▄▄███████▄▄ ▄███████████████▄ ███████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ ███████████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████████████ ▀███████████████▀ ███████████████████ | | .
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Sarah08
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July 10, 2017, 09:09:27 PM |
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Good thing for them i guess this is a good sign that the cryptocurrency isguess spreading and the bitcoin is not hopeless for a pumping of price in the market i dont think that the bitcoin will become a dead coin at this point because it is already a successful coin in the market.
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Taki
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July 10, 2017, 09:23:56 PM |
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That's the first big bitcoins news from Austria. Congratulations! I hope that fact will support spreading of bitcoin and it's future mass adoption.
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eternalgloom
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July 10, 2017, 09:36:21 PM |
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A few years ago, people were saying if you cannot pay your utility bills with bitcoin, then it is not a real currency. We have seen more than one company that allows you to do that now, so we are steadily moving forward towards mainstream adoption. I hope that we will seen more of this type of news, as bitcoin adoption increase in the future. We just need to find a way to do this without using third party services. Yeah, like you mentioned, the only way to pay your bills with Bitcoin is usually through third party services atm, but it's slowly changing. Aside from this story, a town in Switserland has been accepting Bitcoin as payment for government services. The trial ended in December 2016, but afaik, no results have been published. (could be wrong here) Here's a link to an article about that Swiss Bitcoin payment trial: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/crypto-valley_zug-first-to-accept-bitcoin-for-government-services/42143908
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joebrook
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July 10, 2017, 09:59:03 PM |
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As wise as i am now and with lots of companies and corporations accepting bitcoins now, i dont think i will be joining the group of people who uses bitcoins to make purchases and the payments of bills. I will pay with cash and let time grow my bitcoins.
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erikalui
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July 10, 2017, 10:10:39 PM |
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Looks like a small energy provider and hence they could accept bitcoins as a payment because they are interested in the digital currency market. Still, it's something good for their customers if they use bitcoins as a currency. Earlier I heard about Austria introducing a bitcoin bank as well by Bit trust. Any updates about it?
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pearlmen
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July 10, 2017, 10:16:49 PM |
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Even though its for the German market, I believe its still a good news to the market in general because it shows that businesses are beigingng to trust the technology and the force behind it and not just individuals now but corporate bodies no matter how small their capacity is and with the biggest food delivery coming on board in few days, then all I can say is that good days are here and its happening in our very own eyes.
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LeGaulois
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July 10, 2017, 10:31:14 PM |
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Nice news for them. I hope it will be greatly used so others companies will start to follow the same path. One thing you can notice: It's funny because if I am not wrong this company is owned with ~10% by banks like Oberbank. irony irony . Are they using Energie As their Lab? It's Austria. Read the damn article and use google translate if you don't the language !!!!!!
LOL you made my day. And the most funny is that the OP title clearly say Austria
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Theb
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July 10, 2017, 10:37:58 PM |
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Great news, does it state the reasons why?
Accepting more forms of currency like this can only help businesses, but I have a feeling that when companies start accepting BTC, it's because a high level exec is invested in Bitcoin and pushes it through.
Like I say, this isn't a bad thing, as it's win/win for everyone, but would like to know the reasoning behind it.
Well that can be one reason but I don't think accepting Bitcoin as a mode of payment for your utility bill will help influence the price that much. Its not the policy change we are looking for but for the increase of users. I don't know if people will convert their Fiat Currency to Bitcoin in order to pay the latter. It is only a matter of what they are paying, as a smart or practical person won't pay using their Bitcoin because it is a form of investment right now which has more value than Fiat currency.
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supercointeam
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July 12, 2017, 09:57:46 AM |
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That's the great thing form the EnergieAG. Good start and its happy news to all our members also.
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JimmieA
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July 12, 2017, 02:34:10 PM |
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OK, again add a btc acceptor in transactions. This will definitely appear even more. As btc is getting more and more attention due to its convenience in the deal and because of the increasing number of btc owners and of course their demand for btc transactions also increases, this promotes the btc acceptance in over the world.
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staceyoh
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July 12, 2017, 02:44:33 PM |
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That's a good news! Bitcoin acceptance is becoming more wider,they are now noticing it.
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SONG GEET
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July 12, 2017, 02:53:13 PM |
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Translated this news in our blog http://altcoin.media/2017/07/12/energie-ag-bitcoins-are-accepted-from-monday/LINZ. Until the electricity calculation with the cryptography Bitcoin can pay, it will still last. But Energie AG will be able to pay with Bitcoin from Monday, with the product “Containerservice24” of Energie-AG subsidiary UmweltService GmbH. This might help bitcoin to get more adoption in Germany.
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Proton2233
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July 12, 2017, 02:56:18 PM |
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Honestly, I don't trust this news. Documentary confirmation of such news and people often wishful thinking. If the Austrian government does not officially accept bitcoin for payment then the power company can't break. Maybe the payment is carried out through the transit exchange?
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ralphbtctar
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July 12, 2017, 08:52:31 PM |
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Is it just me or is the US still slipping behind on BTC adoption? Dont get me wrong all adoption is good. Just seems to be another are where the US lags.
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aesma
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July 13, 2017, 07:53:28 AM |
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Wann es für die rund 500.000 Stromkunden so weit sein könnte, dass sie ihre Rechnung mit Bitcoin oder einer anderen Kryptowährung begleichen können, wagt Kolar keine Prognose. "Hier spielen auch Vorschriften und Regularien eine Rolle. Da ist noch einiges zu klären", sagt Kolar. (hn) If I understand correctly they accept crypto but they don't even know if it's legal to do so ?
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itsallpc
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July 13, 2017, 11:24:44 AM |
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We could see such news about acceptance of bitcoin payments regularly.It seems thepioneers in different fields are ready to accept bitcoin payments.Its because being pioneer,they are able to grasp the market developments and so they see a big future in bitcoins and to face competition,they announce first about bitcoin acceptance much earlier than others.
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MarkReuter
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July 13, 2017, 02:02:27 PM |
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This is great news. In a very short time, lots of companies will follow suit
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stompix
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Blackjack.fun
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July 13, 2017, 02:10:06 PM |
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Wann es für die rund 500.000 Stromkunden so weit sein könnte, dass sie ihre Rechnung mit Bitcoin oder einer anderen Kryptowährung begleichen können, wagt Kolar keine Prognose. "Hier spielen auch Vorschriften und Regularien eine Rolle. Da ist noch einiges zu klären", sagt Kolar. (hn) If I understand correctly they accept crypto but they don't even know if it's legal to do so ? No , they don't accept crypto and the guy that gave the interview says that they don't plan in the near future to. What they do accept is 3rd parter payments for their containerdienst24.at business.
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. .BLACKJACK ♠ FUN. | | | ███▄██████ ██████████████▀ ████████████ █████████████████ ████████████████▄▄ ░█████████████▀░▀▀ ██████████████████ ░██████████████ █████████████████▄ ░██████████████▀ ████████████ ███████████████░██ ██████████ | | CRYPTO CASINO & SPORTS BETTING | | │ | | │ | ▄▄███████▄▄ ▄███████████████▄ ███████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ ███████████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████████████ ▀███████████████▀ ███████████████████ | | .
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dady12
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July 13, 2017, 03:18:17 PM |
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this is a good news to everyone and I am very happy seeing the way mega company are accepting bitcoin as source of payment and with the way bitcoin is been accepted nowadays will force many countries to adopt it as alternative payment and this will make bitcoin price to go up ,
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Caladonian
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July 13, 2017, 03:22:24 PM |
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Wann es für die rund 500.000 Stromkunden so weit sein könnte, dass sie ihre Rechnung mit Bitcoin oder einer anderen Kryptowährung begleichen können, wagt Kolar keine Prognose. "Hier spielen auch Vorschriften und Regularien eine Rolle. Da ist noch einiges zu klären", sagt Kolar. (hn) If I understand correctly they accept crypto but they don't even know if it's legal to do so ? No , they don't accept crypto and the guy that gave the interview says that they don't plan in the near future to. What they do accept is 3rd parter payments for their containerdienst24.at business. i really don't have an idea regarding to that statement that has been mention and OP's topic is regarding to acceptance of bitcoin for payment process and if this is true its really a big break since more company will start also using the chain if this really happening.
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Bitcoinsummoner
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July 13, 2017, 03:32:07 PM |
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Looks like other country are starting accepting bitcoin and this is one of the good news that can encourage other company and country can accept bitcoin as payment.. And hoping that here in my country bitcoin can be consider as money and acceptable in some store even not a big company is enough for me just there are some shops that can accept bitcoin as payment..
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7jaka7
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July 13, 2017, 03:46:48 PM |
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That's the first big bitcoins news from Austria. Congratulations! I hope that fact will support spreading of bitcoin and it's future mass adoption.
Actually few days ago it was published that a big post office chain in Austria is going to sell Bitcoins. So there was bit more then just this Is it just me or is the US still slipping behind on BTC adoption? Dont get me wrong all adoption is good. Just seems to be another are where the US lags.
Sure USA is center for many things I would say it is country which is gaining most power because centralization. So Bitcoin is biggest threat for them.
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HeRetiK
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July 13, 2017, 03:54:16 PM |
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That's the first big bitcoins news from Austria. Congratulations! I hope that fact will support spreading of bitcoin and it's future mass adoption.
Actually few days ago it was published that a big post office chain in Austria is going to sell Bitcoins. So there was bit more then just this Not just "a" big post office chain in Austria. The post office chain! So that's quite something.
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. .HUGE. | | | | | | █▀▀▀▀ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ . CASINO & SPORTSBOOK ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀█ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ ▄▄▄▄█ | | |
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ashfakur
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July 13, 2017, 06:02:53 PM |
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This very good news for bitcoin to take Norfolk the secend large company accept bitcoin in Germany. Other company also should follow them. Where people pay their bill with bitcoin.
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Azkabal
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July 13, 2017, 07:10:31 PM |
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Wow! Great news for me too! I live in Germany now, so when more and more companies will accept BTC it will make our live easier. Thanks for sharing this news
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xderek
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July 13, 2017, 07:15:44 PM Last edit: July 18, 2019, 10:01:04 AM by xderek |
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Would be useful, in such small cases. At one point, anyone could mine and use the energy to pay the bills. Flawless.
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Rinder
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July 13, 2017, 09:53:11 PM |
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It a snowball, since Japan legalized bitcoin we can see a lot more companies accepting and allowing bitcoin payments, soo into 6 months/2 years i believe bitcoin will be present anywhere as well being an optiong into the online market something most companies arent yet working and allow
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bitcointarget
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July 13, 2017, 09:54:42 PM |
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It a snowball, since Japan legalized bitcoin we can see a lot more companies accepting and allowing bitcoin payments, soo into 6 months/2 years i believe bitcoin will be present anywhere as well being an optiong into the online market something most companies arent yet working and allow
It's a nowball what we expect for several years. Japan light the fire first, and the rest will follow. That energy provider looks a small step for bitcoin, but it can trigger much more attention.
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zarados
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July 14, 2017, 12:39:42 AM |
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By looking at this news, perhaps bitcoin is a step closer to its chance of becoming an official transactional tool everywhere. And it became one of the dreams of bitcoin users around the world. Perhaps nowadays there are still very few people who know and have bitcoin, but with the help of the media, I'm sure, bitcoin progress in the next years will be very rapidly along with the increase in value.
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naidray
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July 15, 2017, 12:49:10 PM |
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Looks like other country are starting accepting bitcoin and this is one of the good news that can encourage other company and country can accept bitcoin as payment.. And hoping that here in my country bitcoin can be consider as money and acceptable in some store even not a big company is enough for me just there are some shops that can accept bitcoin as payment..
No doubt this is very good for the bitcoin and the bitcoin users if other countries accept the bitcoin as a mode of payment but honestly speaking if it is true. Anyone here could send me some information about what OP said ? Any authentic source has declared it yet ? If yes then it is a great support to the bitcoin and surely a great achievement of the bitcoin.
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BCTalkaccountforsale
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July 15, 2017, 01:13:30 PM |
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This may be good news for people who are using bitcoin and may find that bitcoins are becoming increasingly popular and allowed to use, and maybe in the future there will be a lot of countries using bitcoin and this is probably Is something that many people use bitcoin desire.
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iram1011
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July 15, 2017, 01:32:10 PM |
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Actually Bitcoin future largely depends upon Bitcoin use cases. This indeed a good news in that direction. More the vendors and merchants will start accepting Bitcoin. More it will get into circulation and hence will increase the demand. So, the price. This is what Bitcoin meant for along with being an investment asset. Bitcoin was invented to double up as a currency and investment asset. But somehow we were lagging in making bitcoin a currency. These steps will change that perception.
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bitcointarget
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July 20, 2017, 07:39:00 PM |
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I read in one article that bitcoin is not legit in Austria, how come the energy company accepts payments in bitcoin? If yes, it's great news for the future of bitcoin and this can trigger new acceptances.
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HeRetiK
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July 20, 2017, 09:29:07 PM |
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I read in one article that bitcoin is not legit in Austria, how come the energy company accepts payments in bitcoin? If yes, it's great news for the future of bitcoin and this can trigger new acceptances.
There's no official classification and some grey areas, but for most basic use cases (accepting Bitcoin as a form of payment, using Bitcoin as an investment vehicle) there already have been official statements by the government / Austrian tax office on how to operate.
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djoko adi
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July 20, 2017, 10:59:20 PM |
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I deeply appreciate the energy projects that receive bitcoin as their investment. Yes even though it is in germany. But that is very good news. All countries have seen bitcoin as an investment vehicle that needs to be taken into account. With the existence of such a project may encourage other project projects to use bitcoin as its investment. I think this is a great way to make bitcoin an alternative currency for those who want to make a profit. May the world see this news and make legal bitcoin all over the country
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Donaldturp
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July 20, 2017, 11:11:11 PM |
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I deeply appreciate the energy projects that receive bitcoin as their investment. Yes even though it is in germany. But that is very good news. All countries have seen bitcoin as an investment vehicle that needs to be taken into account. With the existence of such a project may encourage other project projects to use bitcoin as its investment. I think this is a great way to make bitcoin an alternative currency for those who want to make a profit. May the world see this news and make legal bitcoin all over the country
As the guy said above this process is in gray zone, but it's still promising in Europe. We see different companies are starting to accept bitcoin in exchange with the operations they performed.
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Rahar02
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July 20, 2017, 11:48:25 PM |
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A few years ago, people were saying if you cannot pay your utility bills with bitcoin, then it is not a real currency. We have seen more than one company that allows you to do that now, so we are steadily moving forward towards mainstream adoption. I hope that we will seen more of this type of news, as bitcoin adoption increase in the future. We just need to find a way to do this without using third party services. Obviously, more acceptance for bitcoin payment and this is the real usability for people who wondering whether bitcoin could be used to pay their bills. Even though some companies want to push bitcoin price because they invest on it, but that's what I'm going to do if I have some stores/merchants/company and I'm a bitcoiners. We do not have to convince retailers to accept bitcoin, ask the owners about bitcoin and if they feel it is profitable, then another retailer will accept bitcoin payment. For those who keep saying GERMANY well it's AUSTRIA
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YOYOY
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July 21, 2017, 12:05:19 AM |
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Yeah mate, that is a great news hope one day there might be a company here in the Philippines that really accepts bitcoin as a payment especially if it's an energy provider it will be really a big help for other consumers that use bitcoins. That's why this time I really need to grow my bitcoins because I know someday many of other companies not only the energy providers maybe even malls may accept some bitcoin as payments or maybe even bills of other services, that will be a good start and other countries may do it the same.
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BartS
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July 21, 2017, 02:54:12 AM |
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Without a doubt this is a good news so it needs to be shared with all the forum, I get the impression that things are accelerating bitcoin is gaining momentum, I think soon enough thanks to segwit and the lightning network we will be able to begin to make payments in th real world and not only online.
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Przemax
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July 21, 2017, 09:16:54 AM |
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Its hilarious how americanisation of the education became a norm. That kind of educationm makes people geographic skills so much noticably poor, that one wonder hows that even possible, to mistake a country with a land of a country. Austria is not the land of Germany. Its a country.
Outside of that, the idea of paying for the mining bill with the btc, is so obvious that most of the electric companies should be able to do that. The reason why that is not the case, shows that most of the mining are heavily concentrated in China and there is no heavy demand to save on paying the bills in Europe or elsewhere.
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