Alts fall, Bitcoin falls ... where is the money going?

[eaLiTy]

yeah there's no doubt that all the money goes to those people who have bought a lot of bitcoin so cheap in early  2009 or so and still holding it until they decide to sell it gradually a little by little. and recently they might have done a pump systematically , that's what i believe . an early adopter still out there holding tons bitcoin waiting for the right time to execute the market.

People who are into bitcoin from the beginning will be holding a hell lot of coins and people who are holding those wont sell out everything right now as they will be holding atleast ten percentage for the future and if the big holders were to see the coins now the price would have gone down already and that is not the case.

[Lorilikes]

There is an unnecessary but inevitable panic over the soon coming fork in the Bitcoin road.  It will not have a long lasting effect, worry not my friends! Bitcoin will be worth $3,000 by November.

[CuriousInvestor]

Money is going to FIAT to hedge for the bitcoin fork IMO. Market cap has gone from 114 billion at it's peak to low 80 billion as of right now. A lot of ICO projects also cashed out to cause this.

[Antonioz]

There is an unnecessary but inevitable panic over the soon coming fork in the Bitcoin road.  It will not have a long lasting effect, worry not my friends! Bitcoin will be worth $3,000 by November.

Maybe but for now I think this is just a bounce, things will go down a bit more before going back up, but nobody knows

[Victorycoin]

Money doesn't have to be exclusively in crypto, people can buy hardware, gold, stocks, or just liquidate for fiat.

As a way to stay safe regardless the way things turn out after August 1st, but should the price of Bitcoin plummets soon afterwards, I'm afraid the selling price of any of those would not be able to buy back the original amount of Bitcoin. Better way to stay safer, must be not to liquidate all.

[ecnalubma]

The August 1 event is creating a panic to bitcoin holders and some cryptos are being dragged into. I dont panic at all, lets see what happen and stay positive after all,  these improvements are for bitcoins own good. No matter what  happen i still believe in it.

[Ucy]

Lol I have been asking myself thesame question too. The more try to solve the mystery the my head hurts. I didn't go through the comments before replying maybe I will get some good answer if I do.

[soul-impact]

Hi

Thread title says it basically.

Almost all Altcoins are currently falling, which means they are dumped for Bitcoins.

So Bitcoins should be bought and therefore rising => but they are also falling.

Why is that?

Money does not go anywhere, it's the risk when you use a virtual currency, the money you invest is real, but its existence is always virtual, and it can be lost anytime.

[Silberman]

In the market all value doesn't go upwards forever even other resources such as oil, copper, gold goes down as well. It's completely normal for currencies such bitcoin for the price to go down people should understand that the price will not forever go up but rather should consider this a chance to buy bitcoin's while it's still in a dip. Bitcoin is strong you dont have to worry, you can safely store your assets into it and it has already graduated from price volatility as many investors such institutional/merchants has showed some interest in it and invested millions of it but doesn't panic with this price dip as the price will sure go up once again.

I think that before buying bitcoin, it is better to wait until the price stops declining and stabilizes for some time before buying some bitcoin, the most important thing is to buy bitcoin at its lowest value so the only thing that bitcoin can do after you buy is to go up, that way you can get some very easy profits if you are able to determine the floor of the price of bitcoin.

[xFiber]

The money is leaving the market that's why nearly everything has dropped a ton the past few weeks. Think about it, 30 billion us dollars have been flowing out of the market in the past 3 weeks. That pretty much explains it all.

[Preclus]

Thread title says it basically.

The price of bitcoin is the last price someone paid and someone sold for it. Nothing more, nothing less.

When someone who got in early sells and makes $300, someone who got in later loses $300. It is a zero sum game. For everyone who makes money, someone loses money. This isn't stock where there is a business behind it with profits, losses and reinvestment and where people are employed. This isn't a bond (loan) that generates interest.

And it isn't a dollar. A dollar is what things are priced in. It is not a speculative asset. You can't compare the "value of the dollar" against an asset value because the dollar is what things are priced in. Nobody holds dollars. They hold stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. And most people are short dollars, they have borrowed dollars and bought assets (mortgaged homes, financed cars, etc.).

Additionally, money is taken out by miners in terms of coins mined and transaction fees. Every time an exchange is made, money goes to the miners. If the transaction fee was 1%, after 10 transactions, the miners own 10.46% of the bitcoins transacted.

There is no money "in bitcoin". Bitcoins are exchanged for a price. If there are no buyers at the current price, you can't sell. You can only sell to another buyer. And there is nothing behind it. Saying "there is nothing behind the dollar" and trying to compare it to the dollar doesn't make sense. Things are priced in dollars. People don't buy dollars and hold them hoping for a gain. They buy homes, stock, bonds, real estate, clothes, food. They get a paycheck each week and either pay down borrowed dollars, buy assets with it, put it in an interest bearing account (which is a loan to a bank, it is not dollars), buy stock, etc.

So, where is the money going.. money is being taken by miners and early buyers and money is being lost by people who bought in recently.

[dinofelis]

Thread title says it basically.

The price of bitcoin is the last price someone paid and someone sold for it. Nothing more, nothing less.

When someone who got in early sells and makes $300, someone who got in later loses $300. It is a zero sum game. For everyone who makes money, someone loses money. This isn't stock where there is a business behind it with profits, losses and reinvestment and where people are employed. This isn't a bond (loan) that generates interest.

And it isn't a dollar. A dollar is what things are priced in. It is not a speculative asset. You can't compare the "value of the dollar" against an asset value because the dollar is what things are priced in. Nobody holds dollars. They hold stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. And most people are short dollars, they have borrowed dollars and bought assets (mortgaged homes, financed cars, etc.).

Additionally, money is taken out by miners in terms of coins mined and transaction fees. Every time an exchange is made, money goes to the miners. If the transaction fee was 1%, after 10 transactions, the miners own 10.46% of the bitcoins transacted.

There is no money "in bitcoin". Bitcoins are exchanged for a price. If there are no buyers at the current price, you can't sell. You can only sell to another buyer. And there is nothing behind it. Saying "there is nothing behind the dollar" and trying to compare it to the dollar doesn't make sense. Things are priced in dollars. People don't buy dollars and hold them hoping for a gain. They buy homes, stock, bonds, real estate, clothes, food. They get a paycheck each week and either pay down borrowed dollars, buy assets with it, put it in an interest bearing account (which is a loan to a bank, it is not dollars), buy stock, etc.

So, where is the money going.. money is being taken by miners and early buyers and money is being lost by people who bought in recently.

This.  A big amen.  The essence of crypto is here.  A zero sum game, a pump of value from greater fools to earlier fools and those having their business around it (like miners and exchanges).  Which doesn't mean it cannot be played, if you think that there are still a lot of greater fools, that will pump their value your way, of course

As you point out, it is not even a zero-sum game, because mining makes it lossy.  Value has to be destroyed continuously by bitcoin and every other PoW coin, in order for it to keep on running.   As long as this was compensating seigniorage, this could have a good effect (creating coins wouldn't be pure seigniorage as you have to waste most of it, the inflation tax doesn't go into anyone's pocket (= seigniorage) but is burned into heat of mining equipment).  But in the long run this is not sustainable: you have a zero-sum asset with a value leak in it.

[Anegg]

Hi

Thread title says it basically.

Almost all Altcoins are currently falling, which means they are dumped for Bitcoins.

So Bitcoins should be bought and therefore rising => but they are also falling.

Why is that?

Who said that alt coins have to be sold for bitcoin, this is not the case, and while when alts fall and bitcoin rises may be applicable in some cases, this time it is not the case. Bitcoin is now falling due to one main reason. Pre segwit anticipation. People are afraid of the hard fork and segwit on August the first and due to this they are selling their bitcoin. I wouldn’t worry though, I would expect prices to easy go back up after August the first happens.

[Spoetnik]

Thread title says it basically.

The price of bitcoin is the last price someone paid and someone sold for it. Nothing more, nothing less.

When someone who got in early sells and makes $300, someone who got in later loses $300. It is a zero sum game. For everyone who makes money, someone loses money. This isn't stock where there is a business behind it with profits, losses and reinvestment and where people are employed. This isn't a bond (loan) that generates interest.

And it isn't a dollar. A dollar is what things are priced in. It is not a speculative asset. You can't compare the "value of the dollar" against an asset value because the dollar is what things are priced in. Nobody holds dollars. They hold stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. And most people are short dollars, they have borrowed dollars and bought assets (mortgaged homes, financed cars, etc.).

Additionally, money is taken out by miners in terms of coins mined and transaction fees. Every time an exchange is made, money goes to the miners. If the transaction fee was 1%, after 10 transactions, the miners own 10.46% of the bitcoins transacted.

There is no money "in bitcoin". Bitcoins are exchanged for a price. If there are no buyers at the current price, you can't sell. You can only sell to another buyer. And there is nothing behind it. Saying "there is nothing behind the dollar" and trying to compare it to the dollar doesn't make sense. Things are priced in dollars. People don't buy dollars and hold them hoping for a gain. They buy homes, stock, bonds, real estate, clothes, food. They get a paycheck each week and either pay down borrowed dollars, buy assets with it, put it in an interest bearing account (which is a loan to a bank, it is not dollars), buy stock, etc.

So, where is the money going.. money is being taken by miners and early buyers and money is being lost by people who bought in recently.

This.  A big amen.  The essence of crypto is here.  A zero sum game, a pump of value from greater fools to earlier fools and those having their business around it (like miners and exchanges).  Which doesn't mean it cannot be played, if you think that there are still a lot of greater fools, that will pump their value your way, of course

As you point out, it is not even a zero-sum game, because mining makes it lossy.  Value has to be destroyed continuously by bitcoin and every other PoW coin, in order for it to keep on running.   As long as this was compensating seigniorage, this could have a good effect (creating coins wouldn't be pure seigniorage as you have to waste most of it, the inflation tax doesn't go into anyone's pocket (= seigniorage) but is burned into heat of mining equipment).  But in the long run this is not sustainable: you have a zero-sum asset with a value leak in it.

I am just curious if you believe what you said..
then why did you vanish from the Altcoin section ?

You have been gone ever since the great hype started and prices hot up.
Before that you used to run around the alt section defending Ethereum and trashing alts with "Zero sum game" commentary.

It's been what months since i seen you in that section ?

No one cares..
Gimme money.
Fuck you.
Fuck honesty.
Fuck integrity.
Fuck class.
I need to get paid.. i have my mouth to feed dammit.

I see the 3 guys with me in the Altcons section *STILL*
And Dino you are no one of them.
WHEN you went into hiding is the key point here.
Makes me wonder WHY.

[senin]

The fall of bitcoin and alternative crypto currency is not particularly to be feared. All this is temporary, as has already been the case for many years.

[TravelMug]

The fall of bitcoin and alternative crypto currency is not particularly to be feared. All this is temporary, as has already been the case for many years.

But for some this cause a panic and immediately sold off  their stash. But you can't blame them. That is how its works in crypto. FUD=panic sells, Good News=panic buying. But for those who are really in the game for a long time, a small price dip or price hike didn't affect them because they already know that its gonna be temporary and they just hold on their bitcoin. I think the money is going where it should be, to the people who are cashing it out and used it for whatever reasons like going into vacation or purchasing other items.

[Ekanenf]

Hi

Thread title says it basically.

Almost all Altcoins are currently falling, which means they are dumped for Bitcoins.

So Bitcoins should be bought and therefore rising => but they are also falling.

Why is that?

This is because of this SegWit activation thingy, it is trending on this forum last week, I hope you are reading stuffs here. The splitting of bitcoin make this scenario happens, all of the Altcoins prices, and bitcoins price was in a huge DUMP, but it is okay right now, though there is still a lot of Altcoins in the market which is not yet rising from its DUMP.

And since this Hard fork thing is done, bitcoin is now targeting its next price which is $4000 and $5000 per bitcoin, and that is what I'm waiting for.

[crazyivan]

Ah, if price movements would be so simple and logical as you suggest.

People still fear of Aug 1 and some re reducing their crypto positions. Some do buy BTC. However, I do see strong alt growth after Aug 1 and I do not make mistakes very often about price.

[jamirrah]

Hi

Thread title says it basically.

Almost all Altcoins are currently falling, which means they are dumped for Bitcoins.

So Bitcoins should be bought and therefore rising => but they are also falling.

Why is that?

Money is leaving the market. This is very consistent with the expected scenario. They all wait for segwit activation and before it we'll never see bright days.

But 4days ago btc price starts to pump up again and became even higher than its price before the continues drop started. But still unless segwit is done we wont really know whats going to happen.

[btcforchild]

When you see bitcoin rising prices you'll also see Altcoin prices go down, so it would be like that any time, people sell altcoin due to get huge profits selling bitcoin.