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Author Topic: Why must be SEGWIT ?  (Read 917 times)
I R S Y K E S (OP)
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July 11, 2017, 07:31:06 AM
 #1

as we are know, now everyone is panicking about segwit 1 August, bitcoin and altcoin price go down drastic  Angry
So my question why there should be segwit ?  Huh Whether bitcoin can not run without segwit ?  Huh
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July 11, 2017, 07:44:35 AM
 #2

Because bitcoin has encountered block size limitations. The number of transactions in the network bitcoin has grown, and a block of the same size - this slows down its growth. I think so.
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July 11, 2017, 07:48:18 AM
 #3

yes bitcoin can continue to function without SegWit and if it never activates it wouldn't be the end of the world either.

but with SegWit a lot of things will change. there are lots of benefits that we will get because of it.
the most obvious one that everyone is looking forward to is the capacity increase and the Malleability Fixes. [1]
also there is all the befits of lightning network which you can read here [2] [3]

in other words if we want to improve for the future we need it.

[1] https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/01/26/segwit-benefits/
[2] https://lightning.network/
[3] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Lightning_Network

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AztecGoldHero
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July 11, 2017, 08:10:55 AM
 #4

ı thınk ıf somethıng wıll happen to bıtcoın thıs should be segwıt . because hardfork lıke bıtcoın unlımıted makes 2 dıfferent coın. what you gonna do wıth 2 dıfferent coın. for exampla what polo wıll do. wıll there be 2 dıfferent tradıng lıke btc/all altcoıns and btc unlımıted/all altcoıns. that meams just fuck the system. all dıes. other optıon ıs btc/btc unlımıted tradıng. that makes btc unlımıted just and alt coın. another fuckıng system.

there cant be 2 maın coın. tryıng to create 2 maın coın just fuck all system.
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July 11, 2017, 08:15:46 AM
 #5

because hardfork lıke bıtcoın unlımıted makes 2 dıfferent coın.

there are a lot of things wrong with bitcoin unlimited but what you said is not it. any fork can lead to a split and 2 different coins. it has little to do with it being hard fork or soft fork and mostly it has to do with the amount of support they can get.

if any fork has the "overwhelming support" then there won't be any splits (like the previous hard fork that bitcoin had) and if it doesn't have that support then there will be a split like BIP148 which is a soft fork.

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July 11, 2017, 08:22:48 AM
 #6

because hardfork lıke bıtcoın unlımıted makes 2 dıfferent coın.

there are a lot of things wrong with bitcoin unlimited but what you said is not it. any fork can lead to a split and 2 different coins. it has little to do with it being hard fork or soft fork and mostly it has to do with the amount of support they can get.

if any fork has the "overwhelming support" then there won't be any splits (like the previous hard fork that bitcoin had) and if it doesn't have that support then there will be a split like BIP148 which is a soft fork.

If am not wrong, the exact percentage was 80. So I guess it is overwhelming support. There are only few people who are still against the segwit so I don't think there will be 2 main coins after August 1.

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July 11, 2017, 08:32:11 AM
 #7

I think if it was the original concept of segwit people would not panic at all but they added some extra feature to the code in the bitcoin scaling solution Segwit2x and that will be hardfork in the bitcoin crypto currency obviously there should be no two different coins in bitcoin cause the other one would just only get pump and dump. As people would only sell it and invest there money to the other BTC coin. Even though segwit2x would never be activated bitcoin would still run but it will fix some problems and improved the bitcoin transaction and it will also eliminate malleability that's been a problem of bitcoin for a very long time.

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July 11, 2017, 08:33:47 AM
 #8

Well, now i understand why there should be SEGWIT   Cool Cool
Thanks Everyone for answering my question  Wink Wink
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July 11, 2017, 08:38:50 AM
 #9

because hardfork lıke bıtcoın unlımıted makes 2 dıfferent coın.

there are a lot of things wrong with bitcoin unlimited but what you said is not it. any fork can lead to a split and 2 different coins. it has little to do with it being hard fork or soft fork and mostly it has to do with the amount of support they can get.

if any fork has the "overwhelming support" then there won't be any splits (like the previous hard fork that bitcoin had) and if it doesn't have that support then there will be a split like BIP148 which is a soft fork.

If am not wrong, the exact percentage was 80. So I guess it is overwhelming support. There are only few people who are still against the segwit so I don't think there will be 2 main coins after August 1.
Even if the percentage of support would be lower, nothing will change. None of the participants of the market of bitcoins doesn't want his division. Everything will be fine. And of course speculators will try to earn on a panic, so maybe the price will drop to 1 August.
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July 11, 2017, 08:46:27 AM
 #10

as we are know, now everyone is panicking about segwit 1 August, bitcoin and altcoin price go down drastic  Angry
So my question why there should be segwit ?  Huh Whether bitcoin can not run without segwit ?  Huh

Because bullshit.  
Segwit contains some relatively good ideas, but they are not necessary.  Bitcoin contains conceptual and technical choices which are less than optimal, and segwit can improve somewhat on them.

So, somehow, segwit is some technical improvement of some aspects of bitcoin technicalities for more sophisticated uses of bitcoin that aren't really used much today.  The MAIN reason for segwit is that core wants to push changes, and wants to push the lightning off-chain payment system.    Core has been selling a lot of bogus reasons of why segwit is the solution to scaling.

The two main bogus reasons are:
- we cannot afford hard forks, that would be too dangerous, and simply changing *one single parameter* in the existing software, namely the block size limit, is technically a hard fork.  Hard forks are not dangerous if they are consensual, ethereum has done many of them, monero has done many of them.  A hard fork where a single parameter is simply changed wouldn't have been a great deal, but core made a great deal out of it, to be able to push segwit as a sole solution to the silly block restriction.  They do this by allowing (in segwit) "out-of-accounted-blocksize data" (the so-called witness data), and hence allow more ACTUAL data per block than is accounted for (there's only a part of the actual data that goes "into the block", but that block is depending on out-of-block data that gives the full story of the transactions).

- we need small blocks so that there are many voluntary full nodes that "keep bitcoin decentralized".  That's probably the biggest bogus reason.  Full nodes don't decentralize anything as they have no voting power in any consensus decision (on purpose replaced by proof of work by Satoshi, to *avoid* possible sybil attacks on the number of full nodes running and voting). Full nodes only INFORM their owners. But moreover, a true full node would need just as much network and storage and computing effort to verify the "out-of-block data" too, as if these data were included into the block.  Having a block of 1 MB (so, respecting the official limit and no hard fork), with next to that, 3 MB of "out of block" transaction data related to the "fingerprint" in the block, is just as cumbersome to process than old-fashioned 4 MB blocks: the amount of data transiting and processing is the same.  The excuse "but you don't NEED to verify this out-of-block data if you take the fingerprinting for granted", is exactly the same reason that one can use to use a LIGHT WALLET, where you don't NEED the full blocks, but just the chain of headers, and the branches of the Merkle trees that concern your transactions.

Finally, once segwit has augmented the effective block size to 4 MB even though it makes believe old nodes that it doesn't need more than 1 MB and hence is not technically a hard fork (old nodes don't understand zilch of segwit, but accept the ununderstandable blocks because they look like funny but legal transactions to them), there is no further block size increase possible EVER without, finally, the dreaded hard fork of changing a single parameter.

So 20 years from now, bitcoin will STILL run on a room of 4 MB per 10 minutes even if at that point, 3 GB blocks would not be any problem.  These 4 MB every 10 minutes, which is all you can ever extract out of soft forks in bitcoin (which is what segwit is doing), will by FAR not be sufficient to be able to guarantee any settlements of a large Lightning Network that would run on top of segwit, if ever.

In other words, the soft-forking dogma will restrict bitcoin for ever, and doesn't solve any long-term scaling issues.  It will even render off-chain lightning network applications DANGEROUS if ever they pick on because settlement cannot be guaranteed.

Without the soft forking dogma, just increasing the block size would have solved the issues since long ; there's nothing to be won to not do this, whether one wants segwit for technical reasons or not, whether one would like to experiment with off-chain payments or not.  In any case, this has no influence on the decentralization of the consensus decision within bitcoin, which is as of now, pure proof of work, and is not much decentralized already.
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July 11, 2017, 08:56:22 AM
 #11

as we are know, now everyone is panicking about segwit 1 August, bitcoin and altcoin price go down drastic  Angry
So my question why there should be segwit ?  Huh Whether bitcoin can not run without segwit ?  Huh

There were quite a lot of spam attacks lately. Those made Bitcoin transaction get slow (most of them because of not understanding how tx fee works) and expensive.
An upgrade is needed to overcome that. Here SegWit and BU are the main competitors.

Then it looks like there's a chance to make Bitcoin become a currency after all. Something safe to transfer, fast, not very expensive to transfer and not a "bank money".
Bitcoin always dreamed of that, but until now it was just a dream. SegWit is a first step to achieve that.

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July 11, 2017, 08:57:51 AM
 #12

because hardfork lıke bıtcoın unlımıted makes 2 dıfferent coın.

there are a lot of things wrong with bitcoin unlimited but what you said is not it. any fork can lead to a split and 2 different coins. it has little to do with it being hard fork or soft fork and mostly it has to do with the amount of support they can get.

if any fork has the "overwhelming support" then there won't be any splits (like the previous hard fork that bitcoin had) and if it doesn't have that support then there will be a split like BIP148 which is a soft fork.

ı was just tryıng to say. 2 maın coın wıll be a desaster for cryto world. what wıll exchanges do ıf ıt happens. lıke ether and etc. eveyrbody was thıngkıng no body wıll support etc but all exchanges supported ıt.


and ı wonder why all but all alt doıng down even thıs shıt ones wıth 0,01 volume.
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July 11, 2017, 09:07:49 AM
 #13

because hardfork lıke bıtcoın unlımıted makes 2 dıfferent coın.

there are a lot of things wrong with bitcoin unlimited but what you said is not it. any fork can lead to a split and 2 different coins. it has little to do with it being hard fork or soft fork and mostly it has to do with the amount of support they can get.

if any fork has the "overwhelming support" then there won't be any splits (like the previous hard fork that bitcoin had) and if it doesn't have that support then there will be a split like BIP148 which is a soft fork.

If am not wrong, the exact percentage was 80. So I guess it is overwhelming support. There are only few people who are still against the segwit so I don't think there will be 2 main coins after August 1.

this percentages are different on different proposals! (you may want to double check the following numbers)
SegWit is at >95%
Segwit2x is at >80%
BU some people say 75% but i think it doesn't have any.

and support is not just the hashrate, they are signalling on blocks. the overwhelming support is everyone who is involved with bitcoin. miners, developers, users, nodes, economy, ...
you can see examples of some of them here: https://coin.dance/poli

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Abricotier
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July 11, 2017, 09:12:03 AM
 #14

For months, even probably years, we have been fighting each other, so I think anything that gets a consensus is acceptable at this point. At least I hope that way people will stop seeing Bitcoin governance as childish.

Also, it will enable us to fit more transactions in each block, and to this point we really need it.

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July 11, 2017, 09:17:07 AM
 #15

i guess one of the main reasons might be the block size limitations. And even without segwit btc would continue working as it is working now. The prices will decrease till 1st August because of the instability that it has created around. Let's wait and watch, and may the majority win and stay with only one coin
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July 11, 2017, 09:27:27 AM
 #16

I believe everything should have an improvement. The only thing constant is change and if you do not want to change, those who end up accepting that change may overtake you. We have seen the likes of this in so many companies (don't need to start mentioning them), but one thing is with or without segwit, we all don't know what may be the outcome of bitcoin tomorrow but at least with it, there is hope!
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July 11, 2017, 10:43:09 AM
 #17

as we are know, now everyone is panicking about segwit 1 August, bitcoin and altcoin price go down drastic  Angry
So my question why there should be segwit ?  Huh Whether bitcoin can not run without segwit ?  Huh

Seems like you, and many other people, especially newcomers, are very worried about every price drop, and try to figure out the cause of changes. First, you should always keep in mind that cryptocurrencies are very volatile, they can rise and fall by dozens percents per day, so if you own some Bitcoins and altcoins, you are always at risk of losing some money due to drops. This is the risk you take for a chance of getting profits from price rises, and if you are not ready to take this risk, better not trade at all.
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July 11, 2017, 10:55:30 AM
 #18

The transition to Segwit2x is good. I see it as an update and therefore support this idea. The fact that not all miners supported the transition to Segwit2x I have absolutely no scares. Originally intended that the transaction should be conducted by the user and if the miners will not accept the transfer they will simply be excluded from the process, and their places will be replaced by users.
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July 11, 2017, 11:42:24 AM
 #19

because there is no other better option than segwit for scaling, for now, there is the block extention, but it's heavily untested and it's an unknown territory

segwit is tested and is the best compromise, until better option come out
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July 11, 2017, 11:52:15 AM
 #20

Some analyst predicted Bitcoin to go beyond $10,000 to $100,000 someday . Everyday thousands of people are joining the crypto currency wagon. But in my opinion, Bitcoin cannot go beyond to a higher ground if the BTC blockchain has so many limitation. Bitcoin must undergo the segwit update to give us a fast, and powerful bitcoin transaction, just like LITECOIN.

as we are know, now everyone is panicking about segwit 1 August, bitcoin and altcoin price go down drastic  Angry
So my question why there should be segwit ?  Huh Whether bitcoin can not run without segwit ?  Huh
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