gpu bubble well and truly bursting

[Raziel__]

Right now a RX 470/570 4GB if you Dual mine brings in exactly $2.20/day.

The 1080Ti mines ZEC at ~700H/s and makes $3.41/day.

Even though the 1080Ti is slightly more efficient, its should be negligible at these profits.

So the card costs triple, and only makes $1/day more than RX 470. How does that make sense?

Yes I know its very optimized in certain algos like LBRY or NXS or Skein, etc. However those coins have very low market caps and can easily crash in the near future. You can't depend on them for mining in the future.



So which is smarter...

1)

Buy RX 470 and make $2.20/day today

In 6 months make $0.50/day

2)

Buy 1080 Ti and make $3.41/day today

In 6 months make $0.75/day


Which one do you think will make you more money in the long run? The 1080 Ti most likely won't even be able to cover their depreciation when they hit eBay.

In my opinion the 1080ti rig will, depending on what you're mining. On ETH sure the 400/500 series cards are a better choice, but how long will ETH mining last? When you look solely at profits and not account for other factors like power usage I think you're doing a disservice to your argument. During the craze I sold all but one of my 480 rigs and out that cash into Nvidia rigs. (1070/1080ti) I now have a much higher hash rate on the equihash based coins I mine with a 10-15 amp savings on power. I pay .14kWh so I not only have to look at purchase price but annual power costs. I loose more profit keeping my AMD cards than I do going with Nvidia. Yes there's a higher initial entry price, but a lower total cost of ownership. So I rather buy once, cry once vs buy once and then cry with each month when the power bill comes in.

However I do agree with the overall premise that one shouldn't be buying any GPUs right now till markets settle and we know what the ETH team is going to do if you mine ETH. In my opinion there are going to be so many cheap GPUs soon that anyone who buys GPUs at inflated prices, even MSRP, are going to be kicking themselves.

Also where can you get 470/570 for $200? At a minimum you should be using $300 to reflect the current climate and accurately represent the situation.

Yes I am thinking long term and what do you think will be minable long term?

When ETH goes POS at the end of the year what is left.

ETC
ZEC
XMR

Add 2,500,000 GPUs to those coins and what happens to the profitability.

The RX 470 will be making $0.20/day, while the 1080Ti will be making $0.25/day. So it really worth buying the 1080Ti so you can make an extra 5 cents a day?

New coins? Most devs are greedy and most news coins are all ICOs. This isn't like 2013 when there was a new shitcoin released every day which was GPU minable.

I agree, XMR is not so big so you cant count on him and asic will hit that coin anytime, the only two coins that are going to be minable are ZEC and ETC, there are some speculations that ETC could go pos too, or best bet POS/POW, so yea ETH is going to ice age as we speak and will enter pos at the end of the year maybe Q12018, when everyone moves from eth to etc or zcash nothing will be profitable, you will make about $0.20-0.30/ day with electricity at $0.10/kwh or 0.36/day, the only thing you can do is sell gpus.

[adaseb]

Correct.

Because people seem to be forgetting that even though the 1080Ti is faster, more optimized, less power, etc. It won't mean a thing when its only making $0.25/day.

People seem to think that the current profitability will last for the next 2-3 years. In that case, then "YES" the 1080Ti would of been the most obvious choice but you need to have some risk control.

[Raziel__]

Correct.

Because people seem to be forgetting that even though the 1080Ti is faster, more optimized, less power, etc. It won't mean a thing when its only making $0.25/day.

People seem to think that the current profitability will last for the next 2-3 years. In that case, then "YES" the 1080Ti would of been the most obvious choice but you need to have some risk control.

The only thing that can save gpus is ETC rising over 100$, or ZEC over 500$

[iamnewhere]

Correct.

Because people seem to be forgetting that even though the 1080Ti is faster, more optimized, less power, etc. It won't mean a thing when its only making $0.25/day.

People seem to think that the current profitability will last for the next 2-3 years. In that case, then "YES" the 1080Ti would of been the most obvious choice but you need to have some risk control.

which AMD card is just 1/5 slower than a 1080ti on ZEC? need some of them (you compare 0,20 vs 0,25 on ZEC so i assume there is some AMD you know which is just 1/5 slower on mining ZEC than 1080ti).

[Raziel__]

Correct.

Because people seem to be forgetting that even though the 1080Ti is faster, more optimized, less power, etc. It won't mean a thing when its only making $0.25/day.

People seem to think that the current profitability will last for the next 2-3 years. In that case, then "YES" the 1080Ti would of been the most obvious choice but you need to have some risk control.

which AMD card is just 1/5 slower than a 1080ti on ZEC? need some of them (you compare 0,20 vs 0,25 on ZEC so i assume there is some AMD you know which is just 1/5 slower on mining ZEC than 1080ti).

rx 570 can do 280-320 sols, 1080ti can do 700-750. So instead of 25cents you will make 0,45, big deal (minus electricity)

[adaseb]

Correct.

Because people seem to be forgetting that even though the 1080Ti is faster, more optimized, less power, etc. It won't mean a thing when its only making $0.25/day.

People seem to think that the current profitability will last for the next 2-3 years. In that case, then "YES" the 1080Ti would of been the most obvious choice but you need to have some risk control.

which AMD card is just 1/5 slower than a 1080ti on ZEC? need some of them (you compare 0,20 vs 0,25 on ZEC so i assume there is some AMD you know which is just 1/5 slower on mining ZEC than 1080ti).

rx 570 can do 280-320 sols, 1080ti can do 700-750. So instead of 25cents you will make 0,45, big deal (minus electricity)

More or less what I was trying to say.

In the future, ZEC mining might be very unprofitable and the 1080ti will need to mine ETH which is the largest marketcap coin.

[puwaha]

Correct.

Because people seem to be forgetting that even though the 1080Ti is faster, more optimized, less power, etc. It won't mean a thing when its only making $0.25/day.

People seem to think that the current profitability will last for the next 2-3 years. In that case, then "YES" the 1080Ti would of been the most obvious choice but you need to have some risk control.

which AMD card is just 1/5 slower than a 1080ti on ZEC? need some of them (you compare 0,20 vs 0,25 on ZEC so i assume there is some AMD you know which is just 1/5 slower on mining ZEC than 1080ti).

rx 570 can do 280-320 sols, 1080ti can do 700-750. So instead of 25cents you will make 0,45, big deal (minus electricity)

It is a big deal when you are scraping by in a mining downturn.  That's 45% more income. 

[philipma1957]

Correct.

Because people seem to be forgetting that even though the 1080Ti is faster, more optimized, less power, etc. It won't mean a thing when its only making $0.25/day.

People seem to think that the current profitability will last for the next 2-3 years. In that case, then "YES" the 1080Ti would of been the most obvious choice but you need to have some risk control.

which AMD card is just 1/5 slower than a 1080ti on ZEC? need some of them (you compare 0,20 vs 0,25 on ZEC so i assume there is some AMD you know which is just 1/5 slower on mining ZEC than 1080ti).

rx 570 can do 280-320 sols, 1080ti can do 700-750. So instead of 25cents you will make 0,45, big deal (minus electricity)

More or less what I was trying to say.

In the future, ZEC mining might be very unprofitable and the 1080ti will need to mine ETH which is the largest marketcap coin.

you simply do not understand the economics of zec. vs eth.

zec coins are worth under 500,000,000
eth coins are worth more then   20,000,000,000

or .5 bill vs 20 bill

nvidia is worth more then 40 bill

pumping zec is a piece of cake for nvidia  .

pumping zec sells nvidia cards.

nvidia would be morons to not pump zec a few more times over then next year.

the losers in alt coins appear to be amd card owners not 1080 ti nvidia card owners.

unless the amd vega does 900-1000 sols at 200 watts

[Vann]

Between the ETH epoch issue and 40% price increase over the last month, AMD is shooting themselves in the foot. Three RX 570/580's would run circles around a 1080 Ti in ZEC or just about anything else. At >$230 each it was worth it to go with AMD. At $280+ it no longer makes sense.

[adaseb]

Correct.

Because people seem to be forgetting that even though the 1080Ti is faster, more optimized, less power, etc. It won't mean a thing when its only making $0.25/day.

People seem to think that the current profitability will last for the next 2-3 years. In that case, then "YES" the 1080Ti would of been the most obvious choice but you need to have some risk control.

which AMD card is just 1/5 slower than a 1080ti on ZEC? need some of them (you compare 0,20 vs 0,25 on ZEC so i assume there is some AMD you know which is just 1/5 slower on mining ZEC than 1080ti).

rx 570 can do 280-320 sols, 1080ti can do 700-750. So instead of 25cents you will make 0,45, big deal (minus electricity)

More or less what I was trying to say.

In the future, ZEC mining might be very unprofitable and the 1080ti will need to mine ETH which is the largest marketcap coin.

you simply do not understand the economics of zec. vs eth.

zec coins are worth under 500,000,000
eth coins are worth more then   20,000,000,000

or .5 bill vs 20 bill

nvidia is worth more then 40 bill

pumping zec is a piece of cake for nvidia  .

pumping zec sells nvidia cards.

nvidia would be morons to not pump zec a few more times over then next year.

the losers in alt coins appear to be amd card owners not 1080 ti nvidia card owners.

unless the amd vega does 900-1000 sols at 200 watts

Why doesn't NVIDIA then instead pump LBRY, DigiByte, Nexus, etc. Since those coins can only be mined with Nvidia.

By pumping ZEC, they are actually helping AMD since many Pitcairn/Tahiti owners are mining ZEC.

[QuintLeo]

Between the ETH epoch issue and 40% price increase over the last month, AMD is shooting themselves in the foot. Three RX 570/580's would run circles around a 1080 Ti in ZEC or just about anything else. At >$230 each it was worth it to go with AMD. At $280+ it no longer makes sense.

 AMD is also looking at what happened after the Litecoin/DASH craze collapsed - and trying to AVOID a year or two of very poor sales due to there being way too many ex-mining GPUs on the market dragging new sales down a ton.

[QuintLeo]

Here in US, retailers like Best Buy are still sold out. Went their y'day to my local store, and all I could see were couple of 1080s and 1050ti. No Radeon, nothing else!

Online retailers like Newegg are the only source for any GPUs and even they have jacked up their selling price by 10 - 30% during last 2 months. So the demand is fairly strong in US.

 More like 30% AS A MINUMUM and more commonly 50-150% on RX 470/480/570/580 - when they have any for sale at all.

 I do wonder how much the MANUFACTURERS have jacked prices up - I doubt it's ALL on the retailers.

[philipma1957]

Correct.

Because people seem to be forgetting that even though the 1080Ti is faster, more optimized, less power, etc. It won't mean a thing when its only making $0.25/day.

People seem to think that the current profitability will last for the next 2-3 years. In that case, then "YES" the 1080Ti would of been the most obvious choice but you need to have some risk control.

which AMD card is just 1/5 slower than a 1080ti on ZEC? need some of them (you compare 0,20 vs 0,25 on ZEC so i assume there is some AMD you know which is just 1/5 slower on mining ZEC than 1080ti).

rx 570 can do 280-320 sols, 1080ti can do 700-750. So instead of 25cents you will make 0,45, big deal (minus electricity)

More or less what I was trying to say.

In the future, ZEC mining might be very unprofitable and the 1080ti will need to mine ETH which is the largest marketcap coin.

you simply do not understand the economics of zec. vs eth.

zec coins are worth under 500,000,000
eth coins are worth more then   20,000,000,000

or .5 bill vs 20 bill

nvidia is worth more then 40 bill

pumping zec is a piece of cake for nvidia  .

pumping zec sells nvidia cards.

nvidia would be morons to not pump zec a few more times over then next year.

the losers in alt coins appear to be amd card owners not 1080 ti nvidia card owners.

unless the amd vega does 900-1000 sols at 200 watts

Why doesn't NVIDIA then instead pump LBRY, DigiByte, Nexus, etc. Since those coins can only be mined with Nvidia.

By pumping ZEC, they are actually helping AMD since many Pitcairn/Tahiti owners are mining ZEC.

That is the next stage . They are holding back until eth goes pos.

[Metroid]

I believe zec price will increase a lot once eth goes pos and eth price will crash a lot when it goes pos.

[poby]

I believe zec price will increase a lot once eth goes pos and eth price will crash a lot when it goes pos.

Is there any logical basis to this belief?  I can't see how eth going pos can any affect on the price at all.  It may actually cause eth to rise if there are fewer miners mining and selling eth.  But more likely it will have zero affect on price.

[QuintLeo]

I believe zec price will increase a lot once eth goes pos and eth price will crash a lot when it goes pos.

Is there any logical basis to this belief? 

 No.

 It's the old FALLACY that mining profitability has any effect on the price of a cryptocoin.

[thesmokingman]

Right now a RX 470/570 4GB if you Dual mine brings in exactly $2.20/day.

The 1080Ti mines ZEC at ~700H/s and makes $3.41/day.

Even though the 1080Ti is slightly more efficient, its should be negligible at these profits.

So the card costs triple, and only makes $1/day more than RX 470. How does that make sense?

Yes I know its very optimized in certain algos like LBRY or NXS or Skein, etc. However those coins have very low market caps and can easily crash in the near future. You can't depend on them for mining in the future.



So which is smarter...

1)

Buy RX 470 and make $2.20/day today

In 6 months make $0.50/day

2)

Buy 1080 Ti and make $3.41/day today

In 6 months make $0.75/day


Which one do you think will make you more money in the long run? The 1080 Ti most likely won't even be able to cover their depreciation when they hit eBay.

In my opinion the 1080ti rig will, depending on what you're mining. On ETH sure the 400/500 series cards are a better choice, but how long will ETH mining last? When you look solely at profits and not account for other factors like power usage I think you're doing a disservice to your argument. During the craze I sold all but one of my 480 rigs and out that cash into Nvidia rigs. (1070/1080ti) I now have a much higher hash rate on the equihash based coins I mine with a 10-15 amp savings on power. I pay .14kWh so I not only have to look at purchase price but annual power costs. I loose more profit keeping my AMD cards than I do going with Nvidia. Yes there's a higher initial entry price, but a lower total cost of ownership. So I rather buy once, cry once vs buy once and then cry with each month when the power bill comes in.

However I do agree with the overall premise that one shouldn't be buying any GPUs right now till markets settle and we know what the ETH team is going to do if you mine ETH. In my opinion there are going to be so many cheap GPUs soon that anyone who buys GPUs at inflated prices, even MSRP, are going to be kicking themselves.

Also where can you get 470/570 for $200? At a minimum you should be using $300 to reflect the current climate and accurately represent the situation.

Yes I am thinking long term and what do you think will be minable long term?

When ETH goes POS at the end of the year what is left.

ETC
ZEC
XMR

Add 2,500,000 GPUs to those coins and what happens to the profitability.

The RX 470 will be making $0.20/day, while the 1080Ti will be making $0.25/day. So it really worth buying the 1080Ti so you can make an extra 5 cents a day?

New coins? Most devs are greedy and most news coins are all ICOs. This isn't like 2013 when there was a new shitcoin released every day which was GPU minable.

You clearly are a for profit only miner and are only thinking about things from that standpoint...I however am not

I've ROI'd on my 12 rigs and I pay my electric bill out of my own pocket, so I like to do speculative/VC mining now where instead of fighting the crowd on a given coin, I mine various coins under the radar with lower initial profits in the hopes that the coin at some point pumps so I can take profit. This allows me to fill my bags faster and hit my target much quicker because I'm not constantly fighting the crowd/difficulty. In VC investing you may invest into 10 startups with the hope that at least 1 of the startups makes it big, so you make the money you invested into the failing 9 startups back from the 1 successful startup. Those 2,000,000 GPUs don't matter to me as they most likely won't be mining what I'm mining; I pay my electricity out of pocket so immediate profits don't matter to me; worse case I just shut my rigs down and take a nice vacation till things die down. Plenty of options if you have ROI'd and sitting on a nice portfolio. Only those with more money than brains will suffer.

Such example is I'm currently mining ZenCash and have already mined close to 1000 coins...the project started off rough but they've been posting regular updates, have formed a foundation and should have their complete secure nodes system released in a few months. Once the project takes off and everyone swarms in to start mining it because of a price increase/increased profitability and crash difficulty, I've already mined my coins and moved on to another coin. What's currently $4000 can easily become $20,000 if the coin hits $20, which I think is quite possible down the road....until then I just HODL

So in my case all I care about is power costs since I will be paying that bill not my coins. So for that I like to use Nvidia as much as I can and only buy open box GPUs from my local PC store or EVGA/Gigabyte cards on the secondary market as the warranties transfers with the serial...

To each his own when it comes to mining. My system works for me but it's not for everyone. I'm just waiting for the cheap GPUs to hit the market so I can pickup all the 1070s and 1080 ti's I can from all those with more money than brains as I'm sure you and others are...

[adaseb]

Right now a RX 470/570 4GB if you Dual mine brings in exactly $2.20/day.

The 1080Ti mines ZEC at ~700H/s and makes $3.41/day.

Even though the 1080Ti is slightly more efficient, its should be negligible at these profits.

So the card costs triple, and only makes $1/day more than RX 470. How does that make sense?

Yes I know its very optimized in certain algos like LBRY or NXS or Skein, etc. However those coins have very low market caps and can easily crash in the near future. You can't depend on them for mining in the future.



So which is smarter...

1)

Buy RX 470 and make $2.20/day today

In 6 months make $0.50/day

2)

Buy 1080 Ti and make $3.41/day today

In 6 months make $0.75/day


Which one do you think will make you more money in the long run? The 1080 Ti most likely won't even be able to cover their depreciation when they hit eBay.

In my opinion the 1080ti rig will, depending on what you're mining. On ETH sure the 400/500 series cards are a better choice, but how long will ETH mining last? When you look solely at profits and not account for other factors like power usage I think you're doing a disservice to your argument. During the craze I sold all but one of my 480 rigs and out that cash into Nvidia rigs. (1070/1080ti) I now have a much higher hash rate on the equihash based coins I mine with a 10-15 amp savings on power. I pay .14kWh so I not only have to look at purchase price but annual power costs. I loose more profit keeping my AMD cards than I do going with Nvidia. Yes there's a higher initial entry price, but a lower total cost of ownership. So I rather buy once, cry once vs buy once and then cry with each month when the power bill comes in.

However I do agree with the overall premise that one shouldn't be buying any GPUs right now till markets settle and we know what the ETH team is going to do if you mine ETH. In my opinion there are going to be so many cheap GPUs soon that anyone who buys GPUs at inflated prices, even MSRP, are going to be kicking themselves.

Also where can you get 470/570 for $200? At a minimum you should be using $300 to reflect the current climate and accurately represent the situation.

Yes I am thinking long term and what do you think will be minable long term?

When ETH goes POS at the end of the year what is left.

ETC
ZEC
XMR

Add 2,500,000 GPUs to those coins and what happens to the profitability.

The RX 470 will be making $0.20/day, while the 1080Ti will be making $0.25/day. So it really worth buying the 1080Ti so you can make an extra 5 cents a day?

New coins? Most devs are greedy and most news coins are all ICOs. This isn't like 2013 when there was a new shitcoin released every day which was GPU minable.

You clearly are a for profit only miner and are only thinking about things from that standpoint...I however am not

I've ROI'd on my 12 rigs and I pay my electric bill out of my own pocket, so I like to do speculative/VC mining now where instead of fighting the crowd on a given coin, I mine various coins under the radar with lower initial profits in the hopes that the coin at some point pumps so I can take profit. This allows me to fill my bags faster and hit my target much quicker because I'm not constantly fighting the crowd/difficulty. In VC investing you may invest into 10 startups with the hope that at least 1 of the startups makes it big, so you make the money you invested into the failing 9 startups back from the 1 successful startup. Those 2,000,000 GPUs don't matter to me as they most likely won't be mining what I'm mining; I pay my electricity out of pocket so immediate profits don't matter to me; worse case I just shut my rigs down and take a nice vacation till things die down. Plenty of options if you have ROI'd and sitting on a nice portfolio. Only those with more money than brains will suffer.

Such example is I'm currently mining ZenCash and have already mined close to 1000 coins...the project started off rough but they've been posting regular updates, have formed a foundation and should have their complete secure nodes system released in a few months. Once the project takes off and everyone swarms in to start mining it because of a price increase/increased profitability and crash difficulty, I've already mined my coins and moved on to another coin. What's currently $4000 can easily become $20,000 if the coin hits $20, which I think is quite possible down the road....until then I just HODL

So in my case all I care about is power costs since I will be paying that bill not my coins. So for that I like to use Nvidia as much as I can and only buy open box GPUs from my local PC store or EVGA/Gigabyte cards on the secondary market as the warranties transfers with the serial...

To each his own when it comes to mining. My system works for me but it's not for everyone. I'm just waiting for the cheap GPUs to hit the market so I can pickup all the 1070s and 1080 ti's I can from all those with more money than brains as I'm sure you and others are...

What you are talking about is speculation.

Basically every coin has roughly the exact same profitability due to sites like What-to-mine.

You can mine a basic coin like ETH, sell the ETH and buy your new coin. The end result would be the same. The BTC holders who never mine do this also to increase their BTC holdings. Actually I think most GPU miners mine ETH, and sell ETH to buy BTC and HODL the BTC.

[umine]

It seems 1080Ti is still very overpriced, about $850, just 1080 is more profitable choise, due to the price about $600

[Salicorne]

Correct.

Because people seem to be forgetting that even though the 1080Ti is faster, more optimized, less power, etc. It won't mean a thing when its only making $0.25/day.

People seem to think that the current profitability will last for the next 2-3 years. In that case, then "YES" the 1080Ti would of been the most obvious choice but you need to have some risk control.

which AMD card is just 1/5 slower than a 1080ti on ZEC? need some of them (you compare 0,20 vs 0,25 on ZEC so i assume there is some AMD you know which is just 1/5 slower on mining ZEC than 1080ti).

rx 570 can do 280-320 sols, 1080ti can do 700-750. So instead of 25cents you will make 0,45, big deal (minus electricity)

More or less what I was trying to say.

In the future, ZEC mining might be very unprofitable and the 1080ti will need to mine ETH which is the largest marketcap coin.

you simply do not understand the economics of zec. vs eth.

zec coins are worth under 500,000,000
eth coins are worth more then   20,000,000,000

or .5 bill vs 20 bill

nvidia is worth more then 40 bill

pumping zec is a piece of cake for nvidia  .

pumping zec sells nvidia cards.

nvidia would be morons to not pump zec a few more times over then next year.

the losers in alt coins appear to be amd card owners not 1080 ti nvidia card owners.

unless the amd vega does 900-1000 sols at 200 watts

I think you are wrong. Frankly how would Nvidia mess up with such a thing ? Nvidia is a company, where decisions has to be taken by investors. Do you really think "buying a crypto-currency to make price rise and sell more GPUs" would be an acceptable argument for them ? I definitely think no.