gpu bubble well and truly bursting

[QuintLeo]

I seriously doubt hw companys will prop up coin prices, that is more of a fantasy.
Mining booms create gpu shortages and it hurts companys, the ones they have partners with.

companys that benefit from mining boom

Gpu manufacturers
PSU manufacturers
server case manufacturers

Companys that get hurt in the mining boom

Memory
HDD
SSD
mobo
CPU
Monitor
video cables
gaming controllers
gaming computer case
computer case fans
RGB lighting kits

The reason those companys get hurt is because in a normal market people would build a gaming computer then use those components in their gaming rig.  A gpu shortage means their sells takes a dip being that miners will use cheap cpu, cheap ram and a single small ssd at best.  Even the basic pc parts take a dip because it takes multiple gpus to sell a single mobo/cpu/ram/etc and current trend is for people to build super high density rigs 8gpu, 11 gpu etc so the situation is even worse for them.

 People are still building gaming machines - the Mining market is NOT eating all of AMD's capacity or even CLOSE to doing so on Nvidia.
 Also, you've got some definite mistakes in there.

 Case companies do NOT benefit from mining, as most mining rigs don't USE cases.
 Memory HD SSD Motherboard and CPU companies DO benefit, but it's kind of a push as miners usually buy lower-end parts.

 I don't know many gamers that waste money on that RGB lighting kit garbage.
 I certainly don't waste money on that junk on MY gaming machines.
 I suspect that just is aimed a LOT more at "I want to show off my machine" type folks, who often are clueless about actually making a gaming machine PERFORM well.


 The gamers that are ticked off are the ones that want to use "mid-upper" level GPUs but are finding they're out of stock a lot and higher priced than normal the last few months due to having to compete with miners for those parts.
 HIGH END gamers don't care, they're using NVidia 1080ti GPUs that haven't had shortage and gouge pricing issues, and a few of the mid-upper folks that used the gouge pricing issue to justify moving up TO the current top gaming card.

[QuintLeo]

Gigabyte FE for $659 a few days. Then MSI FE for $669 for a few days. Following by Palit FE for $659. The Evga SC2 1080ti is $729 now. I have 2 of them, they hash at 970mh/s skein vs 930-950 for the FE cards. The FE cards are throttling slightly I think, 76 degrees hence are slower.
[/quote]

 I don't pay attention to the 1080 ti cards and generally ignore all of the FE models, as the cooling is VERY poor compared to any aftermarket card.

 Good cooling makes a BIG difference on boost clocks, my Gigabyte 3-fan Windforce model vs my Aorus model in the same machine consistantly boosted about 100 Mhz less due to the inferior cooling, with ALL other settings the same - even when I swapped the 2 between slots in my testing of the two.

[Tmdz]

I seriously doubt hw companys will prop up coin prices, that is more of a fantasy.
Mining booms create gpu shortages and it hurts companys, the ones they have partners with.

companys that benefit from mining boom

Gpu manufacturers
PSU manufacturers
server case manufacturers

Companys that get hurt in the mining boom

Memory
HDD
SSD
mobo
CPU
Monitor
video cables
gaming controllers
gaming computer case
computer case fans
RGB lighting kits

The reason those companys get hurt is because in a normal market people would build a gaming computer then use those components in their gaming rig.  A gpu shortage means their sells takes a dip being that miners will use cheap cpu, cheap ram and a single small ssd at best.  Even the basic pc parts take a dip because it takes multiple gpus to sell a single mobo/cpu/ram/etc and current trend is for people to build super high density rigs 8gpu, 11 gpu etc so the situation is even worse for them.

 People are still building gaming machines - the Mining market is NOT eating all of AMD's capacity or even CLOSE to doing so on Nvidia.
 Also, you've got some definite mistakes in there.

 Case companies do NOT benefit from mining, as most mining rigs don't USE cases.
 Memory HD SSD Motherboard and CPU companies DO benefit, but it's kind of a push as miners usually buy lower-end parts.

 I don't know many gamers that waste money on that RGB lighting kit garbage.
 I certainly don't waste money on that junk on MY gaming machines.
 I suspect that just is aimed a LOT more at "I want to show off my machine" type folks, who often are clueless about actually making a gaming machine PERFORM well.


 The gamers that are ticked off are the ones that want to use "mid-upper" level GPUs but are finding they're out of stock a lot and higher priced than normal the last few months due to having to compete with miners for those parts.
 HIGH END gamers don't care, they're using NVidia 1080ti GPUs that haven't had shortage and gouge pricing issues, and a few of the mid-upper folks that used the gouge pricing issue to justify moving up TO the current top gaming card.

The mid-range market is a big deal, it is the market Amd aimed at cornering for the last year.  There are a lot of mid range gamers that like to just have fun then there are high end gamers who think spending less than $2k on a PC is completely unacceptable.

I did not not say mining is eating ALL of the market, but it is a noticeable effect.

There is a definite boost in Server case sells.  Have you not seen mining rig case listings or pics of farms built out of them?

What I listed was just to give a general idea that I could come up off the top of my head, no reason to be anal about it.

It is just something to think about, a unhealthy eco-system is not good so don't just dismiss it as not a big deal because the high end guys don't care.

[philipma1957]

I seriously doubt hw companys will prop up coin prices, that is more of a fantasy.
Mining booms create gpu shortages and it hurts companys, the ones they have partners with.

companys that benefit from mining boom

Gpu manufacturers
PSU manufacturers
server case manufacturers

Companys that get hurt in the mining boom

Memory
HDD
SSD
mobo
CPU
Monitor
video cables
gaming controllers
gaming computer case
computer case fans
RGB lighting kits

The reason those companys get hurt is because in a normal market people would build a gaming computer then use those components in their gaming rig.  A gpu shortage means their sells takes a dip being that miners will use cheap cpu, cheap ram and a single small ssd at best.  Even the basic pc parts take a dip because it takes multiple gpus to sell a single mobo/cpu/ram/etc and current trend is for people to build super high density rigs 8gpu, 11 gpu etc so the situation is even worse for them.

 People are still building gaming machines - the Mining market is NOT eating all of AMD's capacity or even CLOSE to doing so on Nvidia.
 Also, you've got some definite mistakes in there.

 Case companies do NOT benefit from mining, as most mining rigs don't USE cases.
 Memory HD SSD Motherboard and CPU companies DO benefit, but it's kind of a push as miners usually buy lower-end parts.

 I don't know many gamers that waste money on that RGB lighting kit garbage.
 I certainly don't waste money on that junk on MY gaming machines.
 I suspect that just is aimed a LOT more at "I want to show off my machine" type folks, who often are clueless about actually making a gaming machine PERFORM well.


 The gamers that are ticked off are the ones that want to use "mid-upper" level GPUs but are finding they're out of stock a lot and higher priced than normal the last few months due to having to compete with miners for those parts.
 HIGH END gamers don't care, they're using NVidia 1080ti GPUs that haven't had shortage and gouge pricing issues, and a few of the mid-upper folks that used the gouge pricing issue to justify moving up TO the current top gaming card.

The mid-range market is a big deal, it is the market Amd aimed at cornering for the last year.  There are a lot of mid range gamers that like to just have fun then there are high end gamers who think spending less than $2k on a PC is completely unacceptable.

I did not not say mining is eating ALL of the market, but it is a noticeable effect.

There is a definite boost in Server case sells.  Have you not seen mining rig case listings or pics of farms built out of them?

What I listed was just to give a general idea that I could come up off the top of my head, no reason to be anal about it.

It is just something to think about, a unhealthy eco-system is not good so don't just dismiss it as not a big deal because the high end guys don't care.

If a gamer does not buy a 1080 ti pc to game he or she needs to learn why they should.

The real losers are AMD players the 1080 ti is cheap compared to the marked up rx 580.

And the 1080 ti will earn back much more then the rx 580.  So Amd takes a big hit here.

[pdpanzer]

>And the 1080 ti will earn back much more then the rx 580.  So Amd takes a big hit here.

I am not sure. I can get 580 for $259 new from tier 1 seller today, and 1080 ti around $750.

You don't Drive a Tesla for a taxi unless you it's for pleasure.

[iamnewhere]

 The gamers that are ticked off are the ones that want to use "mid-upper" level GPUs but are finding they're out of stock a lot and higher priced than normal the last few months due to having to compete with miners for those parts.
 HIGH END gamers don't care, they're using NVidia 1080ti GPUs that haven't had shortage and gouge pricing issues, and a few of the mid-upper folks that used the gouge pricing issue to justify moving up TO the current top gaming card.

For gamers the 1070 is the best GPU from price / value which exists at the moment (it's just either not available or +20% at the price now) but the same for the high end 1080ti - you can't get it if you are not willing to pay that extra +20% on the price now - at least here in middle europe.

A good 1070 you got before for € 450,-- and now it's not less than € 550,--, a good 1080ti you got for € 700,-- and now no longer below € 850,--

[Vann]

>And the 1080 ti will earn back much more then the rx 580.  So Amd takes a big hit here.

I am not sure. I can get 580 for $259 new from tier 1 seller today, and 1080 ti around $750.

You don't Drive a Tesla for a taxi unless you it's for pleasure.

1080 Ti owners are universally bad at math. They think the only hash per card matters, without taking in to account the actual mining performance per cost. ANY three $230 RX 570 4GB cards will outperform a single 1080 Ti by far in just about at any algorithm while costing less. That's the reason why you can walk in to any store and buy an overpriced 1080/1080 Ti with no problem and finding a RX 570/580 card is like hen's teeth.

[vx0713]

>And the 1080 ti will earn back much more then the rx 580.  So Amd takes a big hit here.

I am not sure. I can get 580 for $259 new from tier 1 seller today, and 1080 ti around $750.

You don't Drive a Tesla for a taxi unless you it's for pleasure.

1080 Ti owners are universally bad at math. They think the only hash per card matters, without taking in to account the actual mining performance per cost. ANY three $230 RX 570 4GB cards will outperform a single 1080 Ti by far in just about at any algorithm while costing less. That's the reason why you can walk in to any store and buy an overpriced 1080/1080 Ti with no problem and finding a RX 570/580 card is like hen's teeth.

talking about math, you will need at least twice as much hardware to support an armada of RX570s (MB,CPU,RAM,PSU,SSD)

[Vann]

>And the 1080 ti will earn back much more then the rx 580.  So Amd takes a big hit here.

I am not sure. I can get 580 for $259 new from tier 1 seller today, and 1080 ti around $750.

You don't Drive a Tesla for a taxi unless you it's for pleasure.

1080 Ti owners are universally bad at math. They think the only hash per card matters, without taking in to account the actual mining performance per cost. ANY three $230 RX 570 4GB cards will outperform a single 1080 Ti by far in just about at any algorithm while costing less. That's the reason why you can walk in to any store and buy an overpriced 1080/1080 Ti with no problem and finding a RX 570/580 card is like hen's teeth.

talking about math, you will need at least twice as much hardware to support an armada of RX570s (MB,CPU,RAM,PSU,SSD)

$1400 6 RX 570 4GB cards
$300 1200W EVGA P2 PSU
$80 ASRock or Biostar 6 PCI-e mining motherboard
$55 Pentium CPU
$35 4GB RAM
$20 32GB USB Flash Drive
$45 6 powered risers
= >$2000

That rig will easily give you 168 MH/s on ETH with 4300 MH/s on DCR dual mining or 1800+ H/s on ZEC and a faster ROI for more profit. For the same $1400 spent on cards, you can only buy two 1080 Ti, which won't come close to the six RX 570 4GB cards in mining performance.

[Quesdana]

>And the 1080 ti will earn back much more then the rx 580.  So Amd takes a big hit here.

I am not sure. I can get 580 for $259 new from tier 1 seller today, and 1080 ti around $750.

You don't Drive a Tesla for a taxi unless you it's for pleasure.

1080 Ti owners are universally bad at math. They think the only hash per card matters, without taking in to account the actual mining performance per cost. ANY three $230 RX 570 4GB cards will outperform a single 1080 Ti by far in just about at any algorithm while costing less. That's the reason why you can walk in to any store and buy an overpriced 1080/1080 Ti with no problem and finding a RX 570/580 card is like hen's teeth.

talking about math, you will need at least twice as much hardware to support an armada of RX570s (MB,CPU,RAM,PSU,SSD)

$1400 6 RX 570 4GB cards
$300 1200W EVGA P2 PSU
$80 ASRock or Biostar 6 PCI-e mining motherboard
$55 Pentium CPU
$35 4GB RAM
$20 32GB USB Flash Drive
$45 6 powered risers
= >$2000

That rig will easily give you 168 MH/s on ETH with 4300 MH/s on DCR dual mining or 1800+ H/s on ZEC. For the same $1400 spent on cards, you can only buy two 1080 Ti, which won't come close to the six RX 570 4GB cards in mining performance.

However, the 1080ti is more efficient.

[daadog]

What do you meean ?

[Vann]

>And the 1080 ti will earn back much more then the rx 580.  So Amd takes a big hit here.

I am not sure. I can get 580 for $259 new from tier 1 seller today, and 1080 ti around $750.

You don't Drive a Tesla for a taxi unless you it's for pleasure.

1080 Ti owners are universally bad at math. They think the only hash per card matters, without taking in to account the actual mining performance per cost. ANY three $230 RX 570 4GB cards will outperform a single 1080 Ti by far in just about at any algorithm while costing less. That's the reason why you can walk in to any store and buy an overpriced 1080/1080 Ti with no problem and finding a RX 570/580 card is like hen's teeth.

talking about math, you will need at least twice as much hardware to support an armada of RX570s (MB,CPU,RAM,PSU,SSD)

$1400 6 RX 570 4GB cards
$300 1200W EVGA P2 PSU
$80 ASRock or Biostar 6 PCI-e mining motherboard
$55 Pentium CPU
$35 4GB RAM
$20 32GB USB Flash Drive
$45 6 powered risers
= >$2000

That rig will easily give you 168 MH/s on ETH with 4300 MH/s on DCR dual mining or 1800+ H/s on ZEC. For the same $1400 spent on cards, you can only buy two 1080 Ti, which won't come close to the six RX 570 4GB cards in mining performance.

However, the 1080ti is more efficient.

Yes, more efficient at extending your ROI time and keeping you from making a profit! Also keep in mind $230 for a RX 570 4GB is the price after retailers started raising the price. Most of my cards were bought for $190-$220, which was already overpriced compared to 3-4 months ago. That just shows how overpriced the 1080 Ti already is as a mining card.

[ioglnx]

>And the 1080 ti will earn back much more then the rx 580.  So Amd takes a big hit here.

I am not sure. I can get 580 for $259 new from tier 1 seller today, and 1080 ti around $750.

You don't Drive a Tesla for a taxi unless you it's for pleasure.

1080 Ti owners are universally bad at math. They think the only hash per card matters, without taking in to account the actual mining performance per cost. ANY three $230 RX 570 4GB cards will outperform a single 1080 Ti by far in just about at any algorithm while costing less. That's the reason why you can walk in to any store and buy an overpriced 1080/1080 Ti with no problem and finding a RX 570/580 card is like hen's teeth.

talking about math, you will need at least twice as much hardware to support an armada of RX570s (MB,CPU,RAM,PSU,SSD)

Crap to compare 6 cards to 2 cards but even tho..the 1080ti are more efficient..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8c0M0tcthw

$1400 6 RX 570 4GB cards
$300 1200W EVGA P2 PSU
$80 ASRock or Biostar 6 PCI-e mining motherboard
$55 Pentium CPU
$35 4GB RAM
$20 32GB USB Flash Drive
$45 6 powered risers
= >$2000

That rig will easily give you 168 MH/s on ETH with 4300 MH/s on DCR dual mining or 1800+ H/s on ZEC. For the same $1400 spent on cards, you can only buy two 1080 Ti, which won't come close to the six RX 570 4GB cards in mining performance.

However, the 1080ti is more efficient.

Yes, more efficient at extending your ROI time and keeping you from making a profit! Also keep in mind $230 for a RX 570 4GB is the price after retailers started raising the price. Most of my cards were bought for $190-$220, which was already overpriced compared to 3-4 months ago. That just shows how overpriced the 1080 Ti already is as a mining card.

[fanatic26]

That rig will easily give you 168 MH/s on ETH with 4300 MH/s on DCR dual mining or 1800+ H/s on ZEC and a faster ROI for more profit. For the same $1400 spent on cards, you can only buy two 1080 Ti, which won't come close to the six RX 570 4GB cards in mining performance.

Actually two 1080Ti's will give you 1600 sols worth of ZEC which is pretty close in hash rate to the system you specced out except you can just throw those 2 Ti's in your current rig and mitigate all of the other costs (except maybe PSU) while having a machine that can run any game in the world at 4k 60fps.

Pretty sure id take that over the dedicated mining rig because I like to game.

[Vann]

That rig will easily give you 168 MH/s on ETH with 4300 MH/s on DCR dual mining or 1800+ H/s on ZEC and a faster ROI for more profit. For the same $1400 spent on cards, you can only buy two 1080 Ti, which won't come close to the six RX 570 4GB cards in mining performance.

Actually two 1080Ti's will give you 1600 sols worth of ZEC which is pretty close in hash rate to the system you specced out except you can just throw those 2 Ti's in your current rig and mitigate all of the other costs (except maybe PSU) while having a machine that can run any game in the world at 4k 60fps.

Pretty sure id take that over the dedicated mining rig because I like to game.

I doubt you could get 1600 H/s out of two $700 1080 Ti's, which are usually the blower model cards for that price, without overheating the cards, especially in a case. Even so, the extra $230 spent on the accessories can be made up easy with the AMD cards by dual mining ETH, which is more profitable and you still have the hardware that can also be resold. If you want a system you could also game with then yes, the 1080 Ti's are a better choice, but not the most profitable choice.

[philipma1957]

That rig will easily give you 168 MH/s on ETH with 4300 MH/s on DCR dual mining or 1800+ H/s on ZEC and a faster ROI for more profit. For the same $1400 spent on cards, you can only buy two 1080 Ti, which won't come close to the six RX 570 4GB cards in mining performance.

Actually two 1080Ti's will give you 1600 sols worth of ZEC which is pretty close in hash rate to the system you specced out except you can just throw those 2 Ti's in your current rig and mitigate all of the other costs (except maybe PSU) while having a machine that can run any game in the world at 4k 60fps.

Pretty sure id take that over the dedicated mining rig because I like to game.

I doubt you could get 1600 H/s out of two $700 1080 Ti's, which are usually the blower model cards for that price, without overheating the cards, especially in a case. Even so, the extra $230 spent on the accessories can be made up easy with the AMD cards by dual mining ETH, which is more profitable and you still have the hardware that can also be resold. If you want a system you could also game with then yes, the 1080 Ti's are a better choice, but not the most profitable choice.

I have purchased 1080 ti's as low as 570 usd from newegg  asus  blower style


  2 = 1140   usd

and the give me 1300 sols  using about 400 watts for a 2 card rig.

so
1140  2x 1080 ti's
  100  1x mobo
  120  1x psu
    50    8gb ram
    20   64gb usb 3 stick
      0  nvoc  os

1430  for the rig     that does 1300 sols  at 400 watts

If you can  show me a rx 570  rig that good  I would be surprised.

buying  1080ti's new  well under 700 is still possible

[Vann]

That rig will easily give you 168 MH/s on ETH with 4300 MH/s on DCR dual mining or 1800+ H/s on ZEC and a faster ROI for more profit. For the same $1400 spent on cards, you can only buy two 1080 Ti, which won't come close to the six RX 570 4GB cards in mining performance.

Actually two 1080Ti's will give you 1600 sols worth of ZEC which is pretty close in hash rate to the system you specced out except you can just throw those 2 Ti's in your current rig and mitigate all of the other costs (except maybe PSU) while having a machine that can run any game in the world at 4k 60fps.

Pretty sure id take that over the dedicated mining rig because I like to game.

I doubt you could get 1600 H/s out of two $700 1080 Ti's, which are usually the blower model cards for that price, without overheating the cards, especially in a case. Even so, the extra $230 spent on the accessories can be made up easy with the AMD cards by dual mining ETH, which is more profitable and you still have the hardware that can also be resold. If you want a system you could also game with then yes, the 1080 Ti's are a better choice, but not the most profitable choice.

I have purchased 1080 ti's as low as 570 usd from newegg  asus  blower style


  2 = 1140   usd

and the give me 1300 sols  using about 400 watts for a 2 card rig.

so
1140  2x 1080 ti's
  100  1x mobo
  120  1x psu
    50    8gb ram
    20   64gb usb 3 stick
      0  nvoc  os

1430  for the rig     that does 1300 sols  at 400 watts

If you can  show me a rx 570  rig that good  I would be surprised.

buying  1080ti's new  well under 700 is still possible

Yea, you could have bought RX 470/570 4GB cards for $160 on sale at one point too. I bought some for $190 in June. TODAY you would be very lucky to find one for $650, however you can still buy RX 570 4GB cards today for $230, if you can find them in stock.

[Qunenin]

Again for the 12th time in the past 2 months this is not a bubble by the economic standards set down by the United States government and the Commodities Market. This has not yet reached the point of a bubble the increase was too gradual and leveling off. Is too long this is not a bubble stop using the word bubble please.

[KevinCookeMMA]

so in the uk it seems nvidia graphics 1060/1070 cards are now pretty much oos and selling on ebay for same price as new. So the bubble from what i can see is bursting, difficulty for eth has gone nearly 4x in few months. I guess everyone wants free money.

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure a lot of these people are noobs with hardware and will be like "please help, I bought overpriced cards to mine eth, now it's gone to POS, don't know what to mine". In a way I think this "bubble" if we can call it that is a good thing.

There are probably also those who buy the GPUs just to sell them back for more.

I'd still like AMD to communicate a bit more. It's hard to guess when some stock will get here. I read that a big german retailer was saying it'll take another 3 months for things to get back to somewhat normal...

I'm anticipating prices and stock for these cards to come back to reality around December

[poby]

Again for the 12th time in the past 2 months this is not a bubble by the economic standards set down by the United States government and the Commodities Market. This has not yet reached the point of a bubble the increase was too gradual and leveling off. Is too long this is not a bubble stop using the word bubble please.

Bubble, bubble toil and trouble.

If it looks like a bubble, smells like a bubble, tastes like a bubble... then hey I'm gonna call it a bubble!