Apparently PayPal can no longer be used to buy/sell Bitcoin mining hardware

[mitty]

Over the past week I've been selling BFL Singles (FPGA) on eBay until today I got the following email from PayPal. (below)

TL;DR:

PayPal may not be used to sell e-currency, such as bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products.

This is news to me, as I'm pretty sure Butterfly Labs has been taking in millions of $ via PayPal, along with all the sales facilitated through these forums.  My PayPal account was actually locked yesterday due to someone paying me as a "gift" transaction (I didn't request this- he just sent it that way) and I called them and explained what I was selling, showed them a few PayPal transactions where I purchased the BFL Singles to prove that they weren't stolen, and had my account unlocked.  I even called eBay and had my selling limit increased and told the customer support rep that I was selling bitcoin mining hardware.  

So take it as a warning- be careful if you use PayPal for anything related to Bitcoin.  I currently have thousands of USD locked up in PayPal that I can't get to; if this isn't a good reason for the use of Bitcoin then I don't know what is.  Unfortunately it's still not easy to pay everyday expenses in BTC. :/

Full email:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
We need your help
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear (removed),

We have reviewed your PayPal account and found that you are selling bitcoin
mining machines. Per our current Acceptable Use Policy for Money Service
Businesses, PayPal may not be used to operate a currency exchange, bureau
de change or check cashing business including the sale of bitcoins, bitcoin
mining units, and other related bitcoin products.

To continue using your PayPal account, we need some additional information
from you. Keep in mind that we have placed a limitation on your PayPal
account, and this limitation will remain until we receive and review this
information. Please provide us with the following:

   • A brief affidavit stating that you understand and will comply with
PayPal's terms and conditions.
   • The type of payments you will send and receive, including the type of
goods or services you will accept payments for in the future.

Below you will find suggested affidavit language. Please make sure that the
requested affidavit is signed and notarized.

I the undersigned do affirm that I understand and will comply with PayPal's
policy regarding the use of PayPal Accounts to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
understand that PayPal may not be used to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
further affirm that any further detected violation of the policy may result
in the immediate closure of, or restriction to access to the account.

Please log in to your account and go to the Resolution Center to find out
what you need to do. Your account will remain limited until the issue is
resolved.

Additionally, in the future, if we find that your account is acting as a
seller of bitcoin products, we will need to sever our business relationship
with you.

We look forward to hearing from you and thank you for choosing PayPal as
your business partner.

Sincerely,
Megan
PayPal Compliance Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

Please do not reply to this email address as it is not monitored and we
will not receive your response. You can get in touch with us by clicking
"Contact Us" at the bottom of any PayPal page.

Copyright © 1999-2013 PayPal. All rights reserved.

[2weiX]

LOL


Fuck them.

[SlyFoxy12]

I can see why there's a problem with bitcoin miners tbh, I think Butterfly labs excepting paypal has meant that a lot of money is riding on if they ever deliver, supposedly BFL have only been sending out a small number to keep paypal happy so it makes more sense that they don't want their claim system over run being somewhat dodgy transactions.

At the end of the day eventually we'll see thing like Paypal hopefully become a thing of the past, it's really a horrible company.

[Vod]

I wonder if Paypal has noticed a dip in usage since Bitcoin became more popular... 

[Littleshop]

I can see why there's a problem with bitcoin miners tbh, I think Butterfly labs excepting paypal has meant that a lot of money is riding on if they ever deliver, supposedly BFL have only been sending out a small number to keep paypal happy so it makes more sense that they don't want their claim system over run being somewhat dodgy transactions.

At the end of the day eventually we'll see thing like Paypal hopefully become a thing of the past, it's really a horrible company.

The problem was all of the 'pre-order' sales.  So many of them were scams that now even that is out.  In reality Paypal could allow in stock sales of bitcoin miners as well as known physical shipped bitcoins.    Paypal wants to avoid having chargebacks, and pre-orders and online bitcoins give LOTS of chargebacks.  I am not defending them, I think they suck and are ignoring loosing out on money they could be making if they were just SMART.

[CasinoBit]

And then you can see John Donahoe that fucking gazelle taunting the lion that is Bitcoin.

[bitcl1234oinfever]

I see auctions going off left and right on ebay with 0 problems. I have watched some and not seen any kicked off. Weird, but I have seen physical coins and digital coins selling with zero issues.

Pre-order could be the issue.

[01BTC10]

I've sold my BFL pre-order for $3000 + $199 shipping.

First PayPal charged me $125 fees for receiving payment then eBay charged me $255 selling fees. It was my first and last time selling anything on eBay. Bitmit has much more reasonable fees.

[bitcl1234oinfever]

I've sold my BFL pre-order for $3000 + $199 shipping fees.

First PayPal charged me $125 fees for receiving payment then eBay charged me $255 selling fees. I will never sell anything on eBay again.

Here is a calculator that will help you determine all the fees. Usually, its 12-15% of your overall selling price that ebay & paypal gets.

http://www.newlifeauctions.com/calc.html

[01BTC10]

Also forgot to add that PayPal screwed me on US to CAN conversion.

[bcpokey]

Also forgot to add that PayPal screwed me on US to CAN conversion.

Yeah they'll do that.

I guess I can partly see Paypal's side from the pre-order nonsense, but if you're selling a physical existing object, which for all intents and purposes is just a computer, I'm not sure how you can deem that specific item (which is legal) as against TOS.

[ruggedman_dan]

Can we please stop using PayPal?

I just hate reading stories of people getting their funds locked up. And when did they add that caveat to their TOS about mining hardware? I read their TOS a few months back and it said nothing of the sort.

Anyway lets move away from PayPal and their bs. We have perfectly good alternatives like BTC, LTC and different e-currencies.

[SlyFoxy12]

Can we please stop using PayPal?

I just hate reading stories of people getting their funds locked up. And when did they add that caveat to their TOS about mining hardware? I read their TOS a few months back and it said nothing of the sort.

Anyway lets move away from PayPal and their bs. We have perfectly good alternatives like BTC, LTC and different e-currencies.

We would be a) ebay is to good a source for everything as a reselling platform and paypal works for that as it's the same company, they don't care about alternatives

b) it is one of the easier shopping cart methods, most other systems didn't have backing and just weren't simple enough to set up maybe bitcoin will change this eventually, but getting coins is still hard at times.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

So I can't sell my computer or android phone on ebay? It mines bitcoins!

[giantdragon]

Try to tell them you are selling not Bitcoin mining rig but a SHA-256 hashing device. Formally, this does not breaks their rules!

[mitty]

Try to tell them you are selling not Bitcoin mining rig but a SHA-256 hashing device. Formally, this does not breaks their rules!

I tried to explain that a regular computer could be a "bitcoin mining unit" to the guy I talked to today (after 30+ minutes of being on hold) but he told me I'd have to take it up with their compliance department, which conveniently doesn't take calls, only emails that they take 24-48 hours to respond to.

The PayPal rep I talked to yesterday when I was trying to get my account unlocked said that they consider Bitcoin to be "monopoly money" but then she actually lightened up and became friendly when I told her I was simply reselling hardware I had previously purchased using PayPal.  She also said that they've been getting a lot of Bitcoin-related calls lately which probably explains why they don't like it.

If only Bitmit had the buyer volume of eBay... eBay/PayPal can get away with their scams/ridiculous fees simply because they have so many users.

[aes1]

To continue using your PayPal account, we need some additional information
from you. Keep in mind that we have placed a limitation on your PayPal
account, and this limitation will remain until we receive and review this
information. Please provide us with the following:

   • A brief affidavit stating that you understand and will comply with
PayPal's terms and conditions.
   • The type of payments you will send and receive, including the type of
goods or services you will accept payments for in the future.

Below you will find suggested affidavit language. Please make sure that the
requested affidavit is signed and notarized.

I the undersigned do affirm that I understand and will comply with PayPal's
policy regarding the use of PayPal Accounts to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
understand that PayPal may not be used to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
further affirm that any further detected violation of the policy may result
in the immediate closure of, or restriction to access to the account.

I have to admire the preposterous way they make you jump through hoops just to re-enable access to your money. The classic "Write 100 times on the blackboard" punishment.

We look forward to hearing from you and thank you for choosing PayPal as
your business partner.

And this completes the shit sandwich.

Truly, this organization needs to die in a fire.

I'm glad we can all contribute to that end.

[lexico]

if Bitcoin becomes a success, then Paypall might loose a lot of transactions.

This is their way of stopping anything about bitcoin.
Paypall got a lot of negative news also because of their 2% stealing, as often mentioned in articles about bitcoin.


“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.”

[yolo2222]

PayPal sucks so much, and will pass on the ball in the near future 

[jdebunt]

paypal has always been a pain the ass for selling or buying anything, they just flag accounts randomly or whenever they feel they aren't making enough money off the fees if you ask me