UPDATED: Segwit and the August 1st and SegWit2x fork explained in simple terms

[Iranus]

Segwit is a scam.  Do some research. Check r/btc

Checked r/btc.  The claims that it's a scam look something like the one in this thread.

It is not an analogy. We are literally getting raped here.
Segwit(2x) is a scam created to rape Bitcoin to create a bastard coin which will get the name, simultaneously killing the actual father.

Your argument here very much resembles the argument by assertion section on Rational Wiki:

Alternately, the argument can be phrased as:
X has been asserted as true many times.
Things that have been asserted as true many times are true.
X is true.

Unfortunately your logic relies on the "we have proven this many, many times" kind of logic without making it clear where these points actually are.

This discussion soon will become a battlefield of hate, like in every other case when different scaling solutions are being discussed.
Can we just agree that there is not 100% perfect scaling upgrade? There will be always people hating it because... reasons.
We will have SegWit activated whether you like it or not as some kind of scaling is needed ASAP. Deal with it and don't be bitter.

SegWit is ok (expect it not well tested), but "soft fork" imposible.

Only SegWitx2 is poorly tested and new.  SegWit itself has been around for ages, and is already implemented on Litecoin.

[xbiv2]

SegWit is ok (expect it not well tested), but "soft fork" imposible.

Only SegWitx2 is poorly tested and new.  SegWit itself has been around for ages, and is already implemented on Litecoin.

I don't know have Litecoin SegWit transactions now or it just option.
With litecoin all exchangers installed new software without questions.

But it not gonna happen with BITCOIN:
https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2017.03.17-Hard-Fork/

Also about 15% miners support BITCOIN 2014 (CLASSIC):
https://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-unlimited-share
https://blockchain.info/charts/bip-9-segwit

[Mad7Scientist]

It seems like you're making up stuff xbiv2. You didn't answer my question about SegWit being a hard fork regarding your example of a transaction where N is SegWit N+1 is not and then N+1 is rejected because the previous transaction it is based on was not accepted. Or maybe you're on to something I don't know.

[xbiv2]

It seems like you're making up stuff xbiv2. You didn't answer my question about SegWit being a hard fork regarding your example of a transaction where N is SegWit N+1 is not and then N+1 is rejected because the previous transaction it is based on was not accepted. Or maybe you're on to something I don't know.

In block N have segwit transaction from A->B .
In block N+1 have normal transaction from B->C .
Block N+1 rejected by BITCOIN of 2014 (CLASSIC) because B have zero balance.

Wouldn't that then make SegWit a hard fork if clients do not accept it? Are you referring to miners or regular wallet users in this example?

Just send RAW not segwit transaction in block N+1 from B->C.
New segwit software (of miners) will accept it, BITCOIN of 2014 (CLASSIC) will reject.
It can do anyone who own BTC to pay transactions fee.

[couture]

okay so the bitcoin i currently hold in bitpanda and in blockchain wallet... should i just leave them there? will my coins just become what ever the outcome is?

Should i transfer my bitcoins from those online wallets to a local core wallet on my computer? if so how do i download the wallet for the 'new' bitcoin? how will my coins be duplicated to the new coin??

Will my mining rigs currently mining dash and eth and other alt coins be affected?

gaddd i hate all this forking shit! haha

[Mad7Scientist]

@xbiv2
The best I can understand what you're saying is that original non segwit miners won't process any SegWit transactions. And possibly any normal transactions that are based on BTC that came from a SegWit transaction won't be processed either since they don't recognize the source BTC as being valid.

I don't understand the second part though since if non mining clients accept the BTC as valid which they should since this is supposed to be a soft fork then the non SegWit mining clients should accept it as valid too. Of course this situation would only happen if for some reason the SegWit miners fell below 50% and a longer non SegWit chain formed off of the SegWit chain.

Earlier I mentioned what would possibly happen if some miners made special clients that refused to mine the SegWit chain, but this doesn't apply because if that happened those special miners would start before SegWit enabled block and no SegWit transactions would exist on that chain at all.

okay so the bitcoin i currently hold in bitpanda and in blockchain wallet... should i just leave them there?

This is a problem in an in progress soft fork situation where a clear winner hasn't won yet, in this case leave them in until the situation is resolved. The other situation is a hard fork that results in two chains. You want your coins in your own wallet so you can have coins on both sides of the fork. Your eWallet will end up on one side or the other and not give you two sets of coins. It should be the better side but still it's only one side.

[xbiv2]

okay so the bitcoin i currently hold in bitpanda and in blockchain wallet... should i just leave them there? will my coins just become what ever the outcome is?

Should i transfer my bitcoins from those online wallets to a local core wallet on my computer? if so how do i download the wallet for the 'new' bitcoin? how will my coins be duplicated to the new coin??

Will my mining rigs currently mining dash and eth and other alt coins be affected?

gaddd i hate all this forking shit! haha

Bitcoin-core 2014 and wait until everything calms down and clears up.
For Bitcoin-core need SSD 240GB or it will work slow.

[xbiv2]

@xbiv2
The best I can understand what you're saying is that original non segwit miners won't process any SegWit transactions. And possibly any normal transactions that are based on BTC that came from a SegWit transaction won't be processed either since they don't recognize the source BTC as being valid.

I don't understand the second part though since if non mining clients accept the BTC as valid which they should since this is supposed to be a soft fork then the non SegWit mining clients should accept it as valid too. Of course this situation would only happen if for some reason the SegWit miners fell below 50% and a longer non SegWit chain formed off of the SegWit chain.

Earlier I mentioned what would possibly happen if some miners made special clients that refused to mine the SegWit chain, but this doesn't apply because if that happened those special miners would start before SegWit enabled block and no SegWit transactions would exist on that chain at all.

okay so the bitcoin i currently hold in bitpanda and in blockchain wallet... should i just leave them there?

This is a problem in an in progress soft fork situation where a clear winner hasn't won yet, in this case leave them in until the situation is resolved. The other situation is a hard fork that results in two chains. You want your coins in your own wallet so you can have coins on both sides of the fork. Your eWallet will end up on one side or the other and not give you two sets of coins. It should be the better side but still it's only one side.

All SegWit chain will be regected by classic (2014) miners and clients.

[flippener]

For the article, it is excellent, summing up all the information a single page. Great information  compiled by OP..

Agreed. I knew it was complicated but didn't realise it was that complicated.

[REF]

@Mad7Scientist
Good job gathering all of this information. This is easier to read and more condensed then the coverage provided by most of the bitcoin news blogs.

All users of bitcoin will have to change their software or continue using the classic wallet, but the classic wallet will be stalled and it will take ages to confirm a transaction because most of the mining power left and because it takes a long time for difficulty to adjust back down to 10 minute blocks.

The old client will still work but if the network moves with the hard fork no one will accept transactions from the old folk. You will have to update your client in order to send or receive transaction that the rest of the network accepts.

[Harlot]

Even as an old member of the community this terms I understand but in all honesty I don't know what will the affect of it when it comes to Bitcoin's price. We need a definite conclusion on the matter we don't need to understand the meaning of those terms as everything is available throughout the web and this site. We need a conclusion or an answer if Bitcoin will still grow after August 1 or will it start to fall. Other than that I might just need to start researching more about that matter. And can anyone please guide us on what will Bitcoin's future be?

[xbiv2]

Even as an old member of the community this terms I understand but in all honesty I don't know what will the affect of it when it comes to Bitcoin's price. We need a definite conclusion on the matter we don't need to understand the meaning of those terms as everything is available throughout the web and this site. We need a conclusion or an answer if Bitcoin will still grow after August 1 or will it start to fall. Other than that I might just need to start researching more about that matter. And can anyone please guide us on what will Bitcoin's future be?

https://pastebin.com/ZUxTmR99

[Mad7Scientist]

@Mad7Scientist
Good job gathering all of this information. This is easier to read and more condensed then the coverage provided by most of the bitcoin news blogs.

All users of bitcoin will have to change their software or continue using the classic wallet, but the classic wallet will be stalled and it will take ages to confirm a transaction because most of the mining power left and because it takes a long time for difficulty to adjust back down to 10 minute blocks.

The old client will still work but if the network moves with the hard fork no one will accept transactions from the old folk. You will have to update your client in order to send or receive transaction that the rest of the network accepts.

Yes I thought that was implied but I edited that information in the post in case anyone doesn't understand that using the classic non SegWit2x network (after the hard fork) will be a completely different network with completely separate coins.

edit: Another thing is that I can't seem to figure out what triggers SegWit2x. Someone said that it triggers at 80% of the bit 4 flag, but someone else said that there are multiple triggers for it. Right now Bit 4 is signaling around 50% for SegWit2x so if it activated now it would do a soft fork and have the potential of winning the soft fork.

[pereira4]

Segwit is a scam.  Do some research. Check r/btc

This here! Support http://www.bitcoinabc.org Satoshi's true bitcoin.

Roger Ver/Jihad/Craig Wright sockpuppets. Reddit is a shithole period. There will be no hardfork because all hardfork proposals are trash. Going into the forked chain will result in loss of purchasing power as the forked token crashes into the ground. Do not support any hardforked token unless you want to lose money.

In other words, you have nothing to add to this discussion. Bye brainwashed Core worshiper. Can't wait until you fools will be worshiping an altcoin or be out of bitcoins way entirely.

It's ok Roger, now ABC can soon join the club of defeated hardfork attempts along with XT, Classic, Unlimited and so on. It's pretty funny how they keep trying to come up with all these scams and they all end up on the dumpster.

[hv_]

Segwit is a scam.  Do some research. Check r/btc

This here! Support http://www.bitcoinabc.org Satoshi's true bitcoin.

Roger Ver/Jihad/Craig Wright sockpuppets. Reddit is a shithole period. There will be no hardfork because all hardfork proposals are trash. Going into the forked chain will result in loss of purchasing power as the forked token crashes into the ground. Do not support any hardforked token unless you want to lose money.

In other words, you have nothing to add to this discussion. Bye brainwashed Core worshiper. Can't wait until you fools will be worshiping an altcoin or be out of bitcoins way entirely.

It's ok Roger, now ABC can soon join the club of defeated hardfork attempts along with XT, Classic, Unlimited and so on. It's pretty funny how they keep trying to come up with all these scams and they all end up on the dumpster.

... as long as the fight ended with SW2x - I don't care   

[Mad7Scientist]

People still seem to be confusing SegWit2x with SegWit and callign SegWit a hard fork. Time to read up, and point out flaws that are still in my OP! There are still likely mistakes in my post, especially concerning Bit 4 and the difference between that and the NYA string.
Here are some sites that are tracking the progress of the proposed changes:
This ones shows a 100 block average and a 1000 block average. You can see BIP 91 (Bit 4) adoption really surging in the last few days due to the lange 1000 block vs 100 block difference: https://www.xbt.eu/
This site shows a regular graph based on 2016 blocks: https://coin.dance/blocks/proposals

What I'm wondering is are the SegWit2x supporters not putting the SegWit flag in the blockchain since there is a higher number of NYA blocks than SegWit (Bit 1). Are they trying to cause BIP148 to make a fork on August 1st to divide the existing mining so that SegWit2x can be deployed and have a better chance of winning the soft fork? It's confusing but if BIP148 enforces SegWit on a shorter chain creating a fork then the longer chain will have a lower mining power due to the lack of BIP148 miners and then SegWit2x can be activated on top of that chain?

[pooya87]

~especially concerning Bit 4 and the difference between that and the NYA string.

here is what i know from reading stackexchange and the developers doc:
the process of soft forking is first "signalling your support" then if the support reached a threshold, you soft fork and the remaining hashrate upgrades too.

now for that signalling part, the official method is to use the variable in the block header called Version. those numbers that you see on block explorers as version are these (little endian binaries). there are room for about 29 proposals. right now we are using about 4 or 5 of them.
here is the list:
0x20000000 Nothing
0x20000002 SegWit Bit 1
the above is the only official Bit that exists: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0009/assignments.mediawiki

because of that, so far miners have been using coinbase text to signal readiness or you can think of it as a promise to support when the time comes or like voting. they can add anything there, so they support multiple at times.
then as btc1 or SegWit2x merged BIP91 it also introduced the bit 4 for activating SegWit so they started using that.
0x20000010 SegWit2x : Bit 4
there have been others but i don't know what they are and can not find anything on them.

with bits the same as coinbase string, you can still support more than 1 proposal. it is simply done by adding the bits together. that is:
0x20000012 SegWit and SegWit2x : Bit 1 and Bit 4

[Mad7Scientist]

Thanks for all that information Pooya87.

The next thing I need to add is the replay issue. If Bitcoin splits in to two chains there will be a new coin and a classic coin, but if you spend coins on a wallet that is not prepared for handling both coins it may spend the coins from the other currency or the other side of the split so you end up losing coins without realizing it.

[Mad7Scientist]

*bump*

In looks like SegWit2x is coming. I think this post is important! It's not really right that some threads where people are arguing about some silly thing stay on the front page or a new post that consists of something like "Will bitcoin die" with no explanation of what's going on is what people see on the front page of the forum.

[vanluan]

I think bitcoins splitting does not change anything for our company. We use bitcoins to process all of our platform orders. We get paid in minutes and cash out the same day to our bank. For 2H2 its a powerful processor.. beats credit cards all day long.