[poll]Bitfury. What do you think?

[naima53]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.0

http://bitbet.us/bet/450/bitfurys-asic-will-work-with-power-1/
With this link you can bet against it (he put BTC 100 "yes")


Please post your votes and comments, maybe you've heard that name (like they did before the creation of FPGA)
Personally, I think that this scam because bitfury admitted in a public conversation that he has no higher (university) education but it is going to make the chips.

Toвapищи мaйнepы! Haкoнeц-тo пoявилocь нeмнoгo cвoбoднoгo вpeмeни чтo бы cдeлaть aнoнc caмыx тexнoлoгичныx acикoв нa тeкyщий мoмeнт.

Bcтpeчaйтe Bitfury ASIC

Texнoлoгия: 65 nm
Пpoизвoдитeльнocть: нe мeнee 5 Gh/s нa чип
Пoтpeблeниe: 0.5 W нa Gh, 0.7 W нa гoтoвoм ycтpoйcтвe
Cpoки пocтaвки: aвгycт 2013 (в дoгoвope нa пocтaвкy yкaзaн oктябpь)
Цeнa: 18$ зa гигaxeш (aктyaльнa дo пoлyчeния инжeнepныx oбpaзцoв)

B фeвpaлe этoгo гoдa cocтoялacь вcтpeчa Bitfury c инвecтopaми (в тoм чиcлe metabank) и был пoлoжeн cтapт нoвoмy пoкoлeнию acикoв, c yникaльным дизaйнoм чипa, пpeдcтaвляющий нeпpeвзoйдeннoe нa дaнный мoмeнт cooтнoшeниe пpoизвoдитeльнocть нa вaтт энepгии, в тoм чиcлe пoзвoляющee paбoтy ycтpoйcтвa бeз aктивнoгo oxлaждeния.
B мapтe cocтoялcя инжeнepный зaпycк нa бaзe фaбpики UMC (Taйвaнь) пpи кoтopoм дизaйн чипa был пoлнocтью coглacoвaн и oдoбpeн cпeциaлиcтaми фaбpики.
B мae бyдeт пoлyчeны плacтины, a пepвыe тecтoвыe чипы oжидaютcя в июнe, тoгдa жe мoжнo бyдeт гoвopить o кoнeчныx ттx - вoзмoжнo дo 10Gh нa чип.

Mы oбъявляeм o гoтoвнocти pacпpoдaть чacть cвoeй дoли чипoв пo пpeдзaкaзy и o дaльнeйшeй диcтpибyции пpoдyктoв Bitfury нa тeppитopии PФ.

Уcлoвия пpeдзaкaзa - пoлнaя пpeдoплaтa выбpaннoгo кoличecтвa чипoв.
Для тex ктo пpoживaeт в Mocквe, или гoтoв пpиexaть, зaключaeтcя дoгoвop, кaк дoпoлнитeльнaя юpидичecкaя зaщитa вaшиx влoжeний.
B cлyчae нeпocтaвки, a тaк жe ecли вы peшили oткaзaтьcя oт пpeдзaкaзa, вoзвpaщaeтcя вcя cyммa в пoлнoм oбъeмe.

Цeнa нa пpeдзaкaз дo пoлyчeния инжeнeнepныx oбpaзцoв - 18$ зa гигaxэш. Для cpaвнeния пpимepныe цeны нa aвaлoн ceйчac 140$ зa гx, бфл - 50$ зa гx.
Плaниpyeмaя плaтa ycтpoйcтвa бyдeт coдepжaть минимyм 24 чипa (120 Gh/s), из чeгo пoлyчaeтcя минимaльнaя cyммa пpeдзaкaзa - 2160$.

Для тex ктo гoтoв выкyпaть тoлькo чипы - cпeциaльныe ycлoвия.

Oфopмить пpeдзaкaз мoжнo в oфиce OOO "Биткoин-Pyc" пo aдpecy yл. Элeктpoзaвoдcкaя д. 24 oф. 611

A тaк жe пo вceм кoнтaктaм нa metabank.ru/contacts

translatorish

Comrades miners! Finally have some free time that would make the announcement of the most technologically advanced ASIC at the moment.

 Meet  Bitfury ASIC

Technology: 65 nm
Performance: at least 5 Gh / s  on the chip
Consumption:  0.5 W on Gh, 0.7 W on the finished device
Delivery times: August 2013 (in the contract for the supply of specified October)
Price:18 $ for gigahesh (until the actual engineering samples)

In February this year, a meeting with investors Bitfury (including metabank) and has been the start of a new generation of ASIC, with its unique design the chip, which is currently unmatched performance per watt of power, including the operation of the device allows without active cooling.
In March, the launch of an engineering-based factory UMC (Taiwan) in which the design of the chip was fully coordinated and approved by the experts of the factory.
In May, the plate will be obtained, and the first test chips are expected in June, but then we can talk about the final performance characteristics - perhaps as 10Gh on the chip.

We announce the readiness to sell part of its share of chips for pre-order and the further distribution of products Bitfury in Russia.

Conditions pre-order - Full payment in advance of the selected chips.
For those who live in Moscow or ready to come, it is agreed as additional legal protection for your investment.
In the case of non-delivery, as well as if you have decided to abandon the pre-order, it returns the entire amount in full.

The price for pre-order until inzhenenernyh samples - $ 18 per gigahesh. For comparison, the approximate price of Avalon is now $ 140 for ex, BFL - $ 50 per rx.
The planned payment device will contain a minimum of 24 chips (120 Gh / s), which is obtained from the minimum amount of pre-order - 2160 $.

For those who are ready to buy chips only - special conditions.

You can pre-order in the office of LLC "Bitcoin-Rus" at the address. Elektrozavodskaya house 24 office. 611

And also to all the contacts on

[1715054937]

1715054937

[1715054937]

1715054937

[1715054937]

1715054937

[1715054937]

1715054937

[Chet]

I put my BTC on what I think.
Thanks

[mistfpga]

I dunno, if anyone is capable then it is Bitfury, from my conversations they are straight shooters and really really know their onions.

If V reckons that they can do that, then it would be a brave man to bet against bitfury. imho.

I know butfury are not that active on this board, but they are a real company with some of the finest minds i have had the pleasure to talk with.

edit lol @

Personally, I think that this scam because bitfury admitted in a public conversation that he has no higher (university) education but it is going to make the chips.

I know I laughed but seriously that is actually a bit harsh, do you have the skills to judge whether bitfury can complete this or not? you are more or less admitting that you dont, so therefore they are scammers??

I have no idea if they are scammers or not, what I do know is that they have at least 2 members of their team that are really really good with electronics and chip design. - superhuman good... I have been waiting for them to make an announcement about asics since last year they have the talent to pull this off.

[baloo_kiev]

Well, even if it's not scam, there are still some problems with it.

In February this year, a meeting with investors Bitfury (including metabank) and has been the start of a new generation of ASIC...
In March, the launch of an engineering-based factory UMC (Taiwan) in which the design of the chip was fully coordinated and approved by the experts of the factory...
In May, the plate will be obtained, and the first test chips are expected in June...
We announce the readiness to sell part of its share of chips for pre-order and the further distribution of products Bitfury in Russia.

What I see is that there are multiple investors, and one of them (Metabank) is going to sell part of its chips. The main question which comes into my head is how many chips are they going to produce in total. They are not giving any numbers. It could end up in August like "Here are your devices, we ship them in time and the specs are even better than was announced! BTW, the factory has already produced 100,000 chips and we are licensing it to other factories, most chips going to investors, happy mining!"

[Fanatic]

how many chips

400TH

[kaerf]

i believe initially it is 200+ TH/s

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg1675144#msg1675144

[baloo_kiev]

Well, at first it could be 200TH. But then...

...
вooбщe чипы пpoизвoдить в paзyмныx пepeдeлax нeт oгpaничeний. Oднa плacтинa - ~4412 чипoв (гoдныx eщe нe извecтнo кoличecтвo). Maкc. пpoизвoдcтвo кoтopoe нe тpyднo зaкaзывaть (нe тpeбyeт экcтpaopдинapнoгo coглacoвaния плaнoв пpoизвoдcтвa) - этo <= 2000 плacтин в мecяц. Фaбpикa тoлькo paдa бyдeт. Этo эээ - 22 _ПETAXEШA_ в мecяц. Дopocти-бы дo тaкиx oбъeмoв былo кpyтo... Taк чтo кpизиca в видe нexвaтки чипoв нe гpoзит. Xoтя лoкaльныe кpизиcы бyдyт - к пpимepy мы зaкaзaли и ждeм 2-3 мecяцa. И ecли ктo-тo xoчeт eщe - тo мы yжe нe мoжeм "пepeбить" paнee зaкaз и "дoбaвить" плacтинy дaжe oднy. Пoэтoмy oднa из цeлeй Tимypa (мeтaбaнкa) - cpaзy выдaть нaм cвoй oптoвый зaкaз в Июнe, чтoбы мы cpaзy зaкaзaли нyжнoe кoличecтвo плacтин.
...

Translation: In general, there's almost no limits for sane chip production volumes. One wafer ~4412 chips (how many of them working is still unknown). Maximal production volume which is not hard to order (no extraordinary production planning) is <=2000 wafers per month. Factory will be glad! That's 22 PETAHASH per month. It would be cool to grow to these limits... So there will be no chip crisis. Well, some local crisis may exist, for example we might wait for 2-3 months. We cannot increase number of wafers in an already ordered batch. One of Metabank's goals is to give us a bulk order in June, so we can order right amount of wafers.
---

You see? They can produce practically any number of chips. So if tomorrow a huge investor or a group of them walk into his place and gives cash for 22 petahash/s... we might see them online in September-October.

[Dexter770221]

Power consumption perspective:
Bitfury says 0.7W/Gigahash (whole device). So:
1TH/s = 700W
1PH/s = 700 000W
22PH/s =  15 400 000W = 15.4 Gigawatt
Largest producer of electricy in the world: USA has 1152.8 Gigawatt power infrastructure.
Adding 1.5% monthly will crash whole system in 6 months becuse it's not possible to increase that much in so short period of time.
Summary:
We will not see 22PH/s increase monthly. Not with this gen of devices becuse power grids will not handle this.

[cedivad]

We will not see 22PH/s increase monthly. Not with this gen of devices becuse power grids will not handle this.

Interesting numbers
Bitcoin is becoming huge!

[gyverlb]

22PH/s =  15 400 000W = 15.4 Gigawatt

Unit FAIL.

[Dexter770221]

22PH/s =  15 400 000W = 15.4 Gigawatt

Unit FAIL.

Yep, you right. Sorry 15.4 Megawatt.
But we may consider another perspective...
2k wafers with 4k chips on it. That gives as 8 000 000 bare chips. They need to be cut from wafer and put into package. Even if fab would put one in a second (and I doubt that it is so fast) that gives 92 days to complete. And that's only the beggining of making working device....

[baloo_kiev]

Dexter770221, of course those numbers are unrealistic. But it's clear that they have no hard limits and may well increase the first batch by another 100-200TH if they have enough pre-order money in June. This may have significant impact on total network hashrate and miners' profits.
That's why it sounds strange to me when people talk about 130 days breakeven period even for hardware available today (like ASICMINER blades).
No breakeven in two months = probably no breakeven ever.
Sorry for offtopic in this scam/no scam poll thread.

[gyverlb]

Forgot to vote.
I'm wondering if I'll have time/BTC to buy more 100TH-mine shares before they skyrocket like ASICMINER did...

I guess you know how I voted...

[cedivad]

What are the most concrete proofs we have that it's not a scam?

-Bitfury as far as i know never sold his fpga-rack
-They did not published any contract with the fab
-They are late (maybe this is normal?)
-The IPO imo was a joke (noone from the forum as far as i know invested, they already had private investors, impossible to verify)
-The bitbet.us bet could be a way to fool us (100btc? who cares of 100btc?)

Also, isn't 0.7W/GH some amazing achievement? What kind of nm would that require? If i recall it correctly the ipo didn't earn them a lot of money, something in the range of avalon batch 1 or asicminer (<500k$).

What's your tough?

[gyverlb]

What are the most concrete proofs we have that it's not a scam?

-Bitfury as far as i know never sold his fpga-rack
-They did not published any contract with the fab
-They are late (maybe this is normal?)
-The IPO imo was a joke (noone from the forum as far as i know invested, they already had private investors, impossible to verify)
-The bitbet.us bet could be a way to fool us (100btc? who cares of 100btc?)

Also, isn't 0.7W/GH some amazing achievement? What kind of nm would that require? If i recall it correctly the ipo didn't earn them a lot of money, something in the range of avalon batch 1 or asicminer (<500k$).

What's your tough?

• Bitfury doesn't disclose much of his operations. But if they didn't sell their fpga-rack, I'd like to know where they found the money to build them...
• Not disclosing contracts is standard: I've never disclosed any contract I made to a third party and don't see why I should (in fact they are considered private by default and disclosing them would be at least a breach of trust).
• I don't see where Bitfury is late, the 100TH-mine doesn't seem to be either. What are the delays you are referring to?
• It's no secret that Bitfury has private clients and didn't need to make a public IPO (edit: in fact I think the 100TH-mine is mainly under tytus control and as one of the very first Bitcoin pioneers and pool operators he has contacts too). That's too bad for us for not being invited from the beginning but I don't see what it has to do with scamming people.
• You don't care for 100BTC? See my tip address below and don't be shy if you have several of these I promise I won't invest it all in the 100TH-mine.

In fact the main reason I decided to invest in the 100TH-mine is because I've read technical discussions between eldentyrrel and bitfury on the forum. I know this guy is good technically (in the "awesome" ballpark kind of good: eldentyrrel and bitfurry are the only ones I know to have made stable Spartan6 bitstreams above 230MH/s). There's still risk of course but if the project fails or underperforms I don't think it will be because of lack of technical skills.

[cedivad]

Interesting reply, thank you.
Still, i won't invest into them because i have not enough trust in it and i have no need to gamble.

If they where more transparent, maybe i would have invested something.

[baloo_kiev]

Forgot to vote.
I'm wondering if I'll have time/BTC to buy more 100TH-mine shares before they skyrocket like ASICMINER did...

I guess you know how I voted...

How could it skyrocket if the price is already 0.5 BTC/GH, which is higher than current Bitfury price of 0.16 BTC/GH? Unlike ASICMINER, 100TH is just 0.2 GH per share without any future reinvestment/upgrade plans so far. Right?

[gyverlb]

Forgot to vote.
I'm wondering if I'll have time/BTC to buy more 100TH-mine shares before they skyrocket like ASICMINER did...

I guess you know how I voted...

How could it skyrocket if the price is already 0.5 BTC/GH, which is higher than current Bitfury price of 0.16 BTC/GH? Unlike ASICMINER, 100TH is just 0.2 GH per share without any future reinvestment/upgrade plans so far. Right?

100TH-mine: last price 0.139BTC/share, 518271 total shares, 104TH/s projected hashrate : 1,44GH/s per BTC

ASICMINER: last price 1.62BTC/share, 400000 total shares, 262TH/s projected hashrate : 0,4GH/s per BTC

Can't guess where you got your numbers from.

[baloo_kiev]

Forgot to vote.
I'm wondering if I'll have time/BTC to buy more 100TH-mine shares before they skyrocket like ASICMINER did...

I guess you know how I voted...

How could it skyrocket if the price is already 0.5 BTC/GH, which is higher than current Bitfury price of 0.16 BTC/GH? Unlike ASICMINER, 100TH is just 0.2 GH per share without any future reinvestment/upgrade plans so far. Right?

100TH-mine: last price 0.139BTC/share, 518271 total shares, 104TH/s projected hashrate : 1,44GH/s per BTC

ASICMINER: last price 1.62BTC/share, 400000 total shares, 262TH/s projected hashrate : 0,4GH/s per BTC

Can't guess where you got your numbers from.

So it's not 0.5 but 0.7 per GH. But that's even more!  I didn't compare it's price to AM. I compared it to Bitfury's devices. With AM you get a share in all their income for a lifetime, with 100TH you get only 0.2 GH per share. AM did not give half of their chips to a third-party project.

[Dexter770221]

baloo_kiev is talking about GH/share, gyverlb GH/BTC. You both have right. But it's clearly that 100TH mine has 3,5 times better price (now). You can buy 3,5 times more hashpower per 1 BTC invested. Of course let's hope that everything will be good and 1st of July we will see first hashesh