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Author Topic: MtGox should be arrested  (Read 10057 times)
freequant
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June 21, 2011, 07:43:02 AM
 #41

I would ask that people give MagicalTux a break... He has been doing a wonderful job considering.   I would ask you also to stop making judgements with no evidence.

No evidence : this is exactly where the problem is.
MtGox claims that they involved the FBI, they claim that the sell order that hit the market was involving the position of a single account...
Yet they din't show any evidence to support their claims.
We don't even know who is the lucky beneficiary of the USD 8M rollback (everybody's account info leaked, many people got stollen their balance, now people who traded during the flash crash have their trades rolled back, and the biggest counterpart Kevin is publicly blamed... On the other hand, the big account holder whose position created the flash crash and maybe also previous market moves keeps both his money and his privacy: call that a fair way of handling the situation...)

I don't have a side in this story and am ready to believe MtGx if they show some evidence to support their claims ans disclose what they know.
Forcing a rollback without giving clear and sound explanations is robbery.

Sure we had the choice not to use/trust MtGox, but that doesn't preclude asking for explanations after the fact. Telling the countrary is just trolling.
If you buy something on ebay and you never get what you paid for, I doubt you will just shrug and tell "well, nevermind, I was wrong to trust this person.
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BBanzai
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June 21, 2011, 08:41:26 AM
 #42

I am not an anarchist by choice.  I am an anarchist because measuring the difference between what I was told was lawful and what the people with power actually do was too much to bear.  I used to be a fan of paradoxes.  They aren't funny anymore.
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June 21, 2011, 09:21:07 AM
 #43

Caveat emptor.  Do not invest money that you are not willing to lose.  Do not complain if you lose when playing a game, do not part with money in a game that you actually need in real life.  Do NOT call the cops when you are playing with untaxable money.  Those boys in blue only get paid when you pay your taxes.  If you expect to make a fortune from gambling instead of from producing real value, you are a part of the problem and not a part of the solution.  I hope it hurt bad to be stupid and greedy.  That would be just.

What you written is so stupid that my head hurts.

1. E.g. I pay ALL TAXES ON BITCOINs - you make it sound like FUD that BTC is "tax evasion money". Bullshit.

2. "from gambling instead producing real value" - so you call everyone that made fortune on 0.1->0.8  or 0.8->5 or 5->15 value increases not "early adopter" or "brave investor"(that risked often thousands on USD to buy BTC or on mining rigs to make this network work);
But basically you call us all (big traders, ArtFortz, Donators like da2ce7) - greedy gamblers, and in true communist style you imply it is bad to get richer on capitalistic ventures?
You know what, fuck you for saying such BS about BTC and community.

Quote from: BBanzai
I am not an anarchist by choice.  I am an anarchist because
[/quote
sounded here more like communist / anti-capitalist to me.

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June 21, 2011, 12:27:15 PM
 #44

So you want him to get arrested before the site comes back on line so that now you really have lost what was their? Let him get the bits restored and accessible before trying to accuse him of anything. The whole event hasn't even finished playing out yet until the site comes back online and people can see what is actually in their account.
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June 21, 2011, 05:14:46 PM
 #45

Why don't they provide a police report? Probably because they are a private company, and have no obligation to provide you with one. As I said, "self-aggrandizing trolls."
If after they bring their services back, you find out that your money was stolen, THEN bitch&moan. Till then, you're not that special.

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June 21, 2011, 05:22:58 PM
 #46

Why don't they provide a police report? Probably because they are a private company, and have no obligation to provide you with one. As I said, "self-aggrandizing trolls."
If after they bring their services back, you find out that your money was stolen, THEN bitch&moan. Till then, you're not that special.

They may not have a legal obligation to provide a police report, or even a redacted police report.  But it was MtGox themselves who claimed that 'criminal proceedings' have been initiated.  They didn't have to make that claim either, right?  But since they did, why not bolster credibility by providing proof of claimed proceedings? 

There's a difference between what is legally required, and that which helps re-establish trust. 

My first miner -> ATI 4550 (7.2 Mh/sec): 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/cryptospeculators/
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June 21, 2011, 05:26:17 PM
 #47

The money is taxable, it is simply up to everyone involved to report their earnings/losses. I have made $0 off of bitcoins to date, but in every conceivable future in which I theoretically made money off them, one of my chief thoughts was how to report that on my taxes. Not everyone is a dirty lawbreaking criminal.


It's an unrealized gain until it is actually converted into a legal tender currency.  Once you convert, you are required to report the gain as profit.  And if you're using the normal venues to cash out (Dwolla, LR, etc.), then it's quite likely that those monies are already being reported to the IRS, and will be cross-checked with your tax forms.





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https://www.facebook.com/groups/cryptospeculators/
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June 21, 2011, 05:27:16 PM
 #48

Arresting people serves a purpose.  So that they can post or be denied bail.  In this situation the risk for damage should encourage a judge to deny bail.  The total amount of potential hardship that he can inflict is in the 10m+ dollar range.   If he is allowed bail, all of your money is at risk.  At this point all hardware associated with MtGox should be seized and he should be confined to prison until trial.

People who believe that MtGox should set the rules and become law are delusional religious crackheads.

let me guess, you work for a Wall St institution?
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June 21, 2011, 06:10:53 PM
 #49

They may not have a legal obligation to provide a police report, or even a redacted police report.  But it was MtGox themselves who claimed that 'criminal proceedings' have been initiated.  They didn't have to make that claim either, right?  But since they did, why not bolster credibility by providing proof of claimed proceedings? 

There's a difference between what is legally required, and that which helps re-establish trust. 

Because any lawyer would tell you that, when you file legal proceedings, you otherwise keep your mouth shut.

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June 21, 2011, 06:19:31 PM
 #50

To OP:

You can't arrest a website. There's no servers in prison for them to sleep on.
Epinnoia
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June 21, 2011, 06:37:51 PM
 #51

They may not have a legal obligation to provide a police report, or even a redacted police report.  But it was MtGox themselves who claimed that 'criminal proceedings' have been initiated.  They didn't have to make that claim either, right?  But since they did, why not bolster credibility by providing proof of claimed proceedings?  

There's a difference between what is legally required, and that which helps re-establish trust.  

Because any lawyer would tell you that, when you file legal proceedings, you otherwise keep your mouth shut.

Police reports are normally public.  I am not asking for him to discuss specifics of the case.  Just prove that a case DOES IN FACT EXIST.  If there are details (eg. names, IP #s, etc.) that he or his lawyer would prefer to redact, then do the redaction before releasing.  

As it stands now, we have absolutely no proof that any authority has been notified, let alone 'criminal proceedings' initiated.


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barbarousrelic
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June 21, 2011, 07:42:26 PM
 #52

Caveat emptor. Everyone involved knew, or should have known, the risks of sending their funds to an unregulated exchange in a foreign country run by someone they didn't know that well.

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
BBanzai
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June 23, 2011, 03:59:31 AM
 #53

A few days later, but I do believe that someone, who shall remain nameless here, called me a Communist.  Communism, being the theoretical evolutionary development of socialism relies on individuals buying into a game of trust.  Trust the leaders to spend your money wisely.  Trust the courts to administer justice.  Trust the banks to keep your money safe.  Trust the regulators to intervene when individuals within their demeign (self-sic) do stupid crap.  And for crap's sake, hand over your tithe to the powers that be.  I may have also made a complaint about gambling as an economic function.
Well. 
How has that worked out for you? 
beeph
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June 23, 2011, 04:07:35 AM
 #54

to be honest something weird was going on with mtGox even before the hack.. i heard alot of people with $$ deposits getting real slow in and out and mtgox claiming it was an 'api problem with dwolla'...  A

A friend of mine just got a phishing mail WITH the correct dwolla account number in said mail, the one that he submitted to prove his identity to mtGox.. he's now beginning to suspect either

A) mtGox is still compromised
B) someone on the inside is going for even more $$.. stringing us along.

I know this is a classic 'a friend of mine' story, but I'm starting to get suspicious.  I'm definitely calling my bank tomorrow and initiating reversals.

<--- prepares to be labelled a troll for 'wondering where the money went'

buying the luxury condos in tokyo.. the proppers on here trying to blame us and saying 'we should have known better' .. this is a classic con move, and the reason alot of cons dont get reported, is the victim feels stupid.. good conmen play on this of course.  Really step by step this is an episode of 'american greed'

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June 23, 2011, 04:11:33 AM
 #55

You are playing with a digital cash equivalent.  If 50 bucks falls out of your pocket and you do not notice, it is likely gone for good. There are upsides to using anonymous digital cash.  Stop trying to pretend that accountability is one of them.   If you'd rather have that, there are banks and stockmarkets all over the damn place for you to play in.
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June 23, 2011, 04:17:28 AM
 #56

You are playing with a digital cash equivalent.  If 50 bucks falls out of your pocket and you do not notice, it is likely gone for good. There are upsides to using anonymous digital cash.  Stop trying to pretend that accountability is one of them.   If you'd rather have that, there are banks and stockmarkets all over the damn place for you to play in.

right so if you get robbed/swindled for your cash in real life and u go to the police you're an idiot right.. cuz since its cash therefore all ethics and laws should no longer apply?  

Oh wait a second didnt our entire economy run on cash for like 99.99% of human history and 'thou shalt not steal' and thieves getting thrown in jail during that whole time pretty much ingrained in all our psyches but now that's all supposed to disappear cuz its DIGITAL cash?  OMG DIGITAL

BBanzai
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June 23, 2011, 04:28:06 AM
 #57

Thou shalt not steal.  Too true.  One of the things this digital cash is practically begging for is global governance.  One of the only reasons I like it is because it is a global cash alternative to the previously offered solutions to global governance.  Decentralization is the demeign (self-sic) of a free-market, unlike the slavery driven, fascist, psychopathic ideas of central government that everyone else seems to enthralled with.  No center.  Just markets.  In that model, thievery isn't upheld by religious reliance on politics.  It fails by its own lack of merits.
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