BFL May 12th Update

[Xian01]

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-3.html#post31814

BFL_Josh: "10 May 2013 Update

Another busy week here at the labs. We continued to refine the LS/S/MR boards while waiting for our next delivery of chips. We expected them today, Friday the 10th, but the packager has been dragging their feet in the process (and one of the reasons we initiated the switch to a new packaging facility, as mentioned previously). The first bulk shipment from the new packaging house is expected on Tuesday and should consist of several hundred chips, which we will be building into all the product lines, assuming no snags are encountered this weekend on the latest rev of the LS/S/MR boards. If there is a blocking problem, we will build them all into 5 GH/s units, but we don't expect any blocking issues at this point.

The rest of the wafers are expected at the bumping facility the following week, and once bumped, they will head to the new packaging facility which is capable of a much higher volume, so we expect them to be packaged pretty quickly and ready for use after they arrive at the facility."

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https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2604-10-may-2013-update.html#post31821

BFL_Josh: " Originally Posted by RG.  

"The first bulk shipment from the new packaging house is expected on Tuesday and should consist of several hundred chips, which we will be building into all the product lines"

What happened to the chips you already had? why are we expecting a new bulk shippment? Maybe has been answered but, really... no time for reading every thread.

Nothing happened to them, we've been working through them working the bugs out of the packaging and various other things. One was burnt for testing, one is at the new packaging facility and the rest are at the old packaging facility. We will likely be transferring what's left to the new packaging facility.

The rest of the wafers refers to the remainder of the 75, or a at least a large portion thereof."

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https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2604-10-may-2013-update-7.html#post32042

BFL_Josh: "Well, I was going to pick on post and reply to it as representative of the rest of the questions, but there isn't really a point in picking one post.

Here's the deal: We are not going to provide minute by minute accounts of our comings and goings. We are not going to provide detailed numbers with regards to what we are working on or shipping. It's really as simple as that. It's just not something a company does. I have tried it in the past and been burned on it when I have given out numbers that have changed and thus the numbers I gave out originally are no longer accurate. I've said it before and I will say it again: That is not going to happen going forward if I have anything to say about it. If I could give a number or a date that I was 100% confident in meeting, then I would. However, as the past few months has shown us, I simply can't be sure of any dates I have with 100% confidence right now, thus I'm not going to give dates or numbers. If I give a date or a number that does not have the caveat "should be," "hope to," etc... around it, then you can be sure I am pretty darned confident in that date or number. If not, then the number or date is subject to change. I always wondered why companies weren't more open with their customers and now I understand why.

Like I said, going forward, future products are going to be shipping "when they are done" if I have anything to say about it.

Nothing good has ever come of me giving out numbers or dates. Just look at the issues people are focusing on now, because I gave numbers for chips and wafers. Now everyone wants to know the disposition of every chip in every wafer and where they went, what they are doing now, what they've eaten for breakfast and when their last BM was. It's a nightmare. If I could go back and do it again I would absolutely not have given wafer counts or chips per wafer and everyone would be just as happy (or not) as they are now. We have given far, far too much insight into our process and it's burned us many times over and it won't be happening again in the future.

Some people are great, understanding and intelligent, and I am happy to share details with those people. I would love to talk shop with those people, explain the problems we are facing and use the collective wisdom of those people. Some people... aren't any of those things and the spoil it for everyone. I don't see any way to separate the intelligent people from the useless people who just want to complain and wreck excellent discourse for everyone else. I could potentially create a forum where you have to be given access, but that seems to be very labor intensive and the content would certainly make it's way into the public, so we'd be right back in the same boat we are in now. I honestly don't see a way around it. It's a real shame that there are people who can't have a civil, intelligent discussion, but it's the internet and everyone has an opinion, no matter how worthless it is, and they feel the need and entitlement to express it to anyone and everyone."

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https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2604-10-may-2013-update-11.html#post32250

BFL_Josh: "Originally Posted by swissminer  

Hi Josh
I understand your frustration. Having worked in IT as an engineer and project management consultant, I believe that you could not survive in a corporate environment if you would tell your customers or superiors, it is done when it is done.
Certainly there were numerous key mistakes made along the process or BFL would not be in this situation. Giving a concise end date, when really overall schedule uncertainty was in the order of >100% was one of them.

Huh... my past employment history would seem to disagree with your assessment. I have told many a supervisor that it will be done when it's done. That's the thing about being in a position where your skills are valued and you aren't just another cog in the machine. You are the one driving the timeline, because you produce results. If someone is telling you when something will be done, you aren't the one delivering results... the guy or gal telling you when to do it is the one delivering results. You're just a replaceable part at that point."

[bennybong]

What a lovely statement.

[Dagger75]

This is all just plain sad.  I just want my ASIC's and to be done with this WHOLE MESS!!

[dudeofthestick]

If you announce a delivery date and you don't deliver then people that trusted and paid good bucks have the right to inquire about the process. Easy.

[empoweoqwj]

From the butterflylabs.com own FAQ: "Our orders date back to June, 2012" - not much more to say is there.

The truth is these people promised stuff they had no idea when (or probably even if) they could deliver. If an offer looks too good to be true, it probably is. In this case, it definitely was.

Greed comes in many shapes and forms.

[Frizz23]

BFL_Josh: "Originally Posted by swissminer  

Hi Josh
I understand your frustration. Having worked in IT as an engineer and project management consultant, I believe that you could not survive in a corporate environment if you would tell your customers or superiors, it is done when it is done.
Certainly there were numerous key mistakes made along the process or BFL would not be in this situation. Giving a concise end date, when really overall schedule uncertainty was in the order of >100% was one of them.

Huh... my past employment history would seem to disagree with your assessment. I have told many a supervisor that it will be done when it's done. That's the thing about being in a position where your skills are valued and you aren't just another cog in the machine. You are the one driving the timeline, because you produce results. If someone is telling you when something will be done, you aren't the one delivering results... the guy or gal telling you when to do it is the one delivering results. You're just a replaceable part at that point."

And here we seem to cut to the chase of BFLs failure: Arrogance and total lack of project management.

Josh: "I have told many a supervisor that it will be done when it's done."

Never in my whole work experience (25 years in IT) did any one of my superiors accept a "it's done when it's done". They always wanted to have some estimate (time, effort or money wise). This simply is the way professionals work.
 

Josh: "That's the thing about being in a position where your skills are valued and you aren't just another cog in the machine."

Josh is hinting that only in "his position" one can do whatever he wants, because his skills are so much more valuable than the skills of anyone else (aka us worker slaves). That he doesn't have to play by the rules.

This ignorance and this arrogance will be the downfall of BFL.

[tvbcof]

...
Josh: "That's the thing about being in a position where your skills are valued and you aren't just another cog in the machine."

Josh is hinting that only in "his position" one can do whatever he wants, because his skills are so much more valuable than the skills of anyone else (aka us worker slaves). That he doesn't have to play by the rules.

That is one of the few things Josh has said that I actually don't doubt all that much.  Like it or not, the guy probably is fairly bright and effective at what he does.  Unfortunately that is also why a lot of people are out a lot of money.

This ignorance and this arrogance will be the downfall of BFL.

I don't think there will be a 'downfall' to BFL.  I think they will achieve everything they set out to achieve and probably more than they expected to.

[Xian01]

Josh is hinting that ... because his skills are so much more valuable than the skills of anyone else ... That he doesn't have to play by the rules.

[empoweoqwj]

Please define "effective"  

Doesn't effective project management imply deliver products on time or at least having a clue when they will be delivered?

And when I saw the shouting matches he got involved with online, with people that had paid him money in good faith, I was really shocked. He behaved like an arrogant little prick, that didn't have a iota of understanding of how to treat valuable clients.

This isn't how real CEO's behave. Its not even how project managers behave. If anyone representing a company I know behaved like that online, they would have been fired on the spot.

he's incredibly immature and shouldn't be running any kind of company, let alone a cutting edge tech company. But he certainly shouldn't be doing "customer support" either - its probably the worst ever client "reach-out" I've seen - all that name-calling crap should be left for pre-school, not trying to present yourself as a professional outfit.

I don't care how "bright" you are. Some jobs you are suited for, some you plainly just are not.

[tvbcof]

Please define "effective"  
...

Separating fools from their money.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

One time in Nashville I had a redneck drywall subcontractor tell me that he'll finish it at his own pace. That wasn't good enough, for the superintendent for Centex homes was already on my ass to get that house done, already two days behind schedule. I was in jeopardy of losing that subdivision all over only one house ever being behind because the super for Centex had a higher up wanting to get his pet drywall crew in that sub.

I told the redneck right then and there to pull off the job, whereupon he spat in my face. I handed him a drywall knife and told him to now go and slice my tires along with informing him that since he knew where I lived to make sure and put sugar in my gas tank.

I call my dependable Jose and instructed him I needed this house done within 24 hours. It was about three in the afternoon when Jose shown up and started with his crew. Come morning, not a soul was around the house, as I drove by it directly to super's trailer to give him the news.

Inside the trailer, the super looked me in the eye and asked if the house was done. Since I didn't stop to look nor spoke with Jose, I still looked the super in the eye and said yes. Then proceeded to tell him to get the painter and trim carpenter in there otherwise he's going to get behind on that house and that he was replaceable.

He didn't believe me, so we both jumped into his truck and drove to the house. Sure enough it was 100% hang, taped, finished, and dried (quickset was used). He couldn't believe his eyes. I informed him to have the painter spray some KILZ^® on all the mudded areas so that there's no chance for the chemicals in the quickset to bleed through the paint.

How did I know Jose had the house done without me seeing it first-hand with only a drive-by? Jose never let me down. His word was as good as gold. How was I able to never lose a drywall contract to the competition? Among other things, I never once even thought telling a home builder that it'll get done when I get it done.

Bottomline: I 100% believe that BFL is going to go down and there will be many of their customers hurt when they do. Not to mention it give Bitcoin another black eye.

That outfit is a bunch of lying conniving pieces of shit. Anybody who doesn't see it has some serious issues of their own I'm sad to say.

Unless they ain't right in their head, not a single customer of BFL would let somebody doing work for them get away with saying, "It'll get done with it gets done!" Not a one. Yet here you are accepting the same and paying in advance for the pre liege, whereas my example consisted of ridding the clown sans payment due to lack of performance.

Here's the sad part: Because I expressed the above, I will probably suffer the consequences, over and beyond seeing my ignore turn a brighter orange.

I haven't gone off the deep end yet. I'm saving that for after July if fuckface Boussac doesn't pull through. If that be the case, all mother fuckin' hell is goin' to break loose.

<Hurting too bad from the stones to edit any grammatical errors--didn't proofread!>

[Red_Evil]

what i dot understand is one point ,

BFL ask her Customer for a refund or a new waiting time for a few weeks ...

when will the customer demand again?

after 3 Month ? 10 Month ?

[t13hydra]

Hmm.. i never said anything about BFL before.. and i know i have spent the kid's food money on a miner (which i'm really ashamed for). But this is outrageous. When someone gives you money, you just don't fuck around for almost a year. Wake the F** UP! It's almost June! When will i ever get my Little Single? You know what? F You! I don't give a rat's ass when. Go shove it up yours! $818 is out the window, but i'm sure there are lots of people with REAL capital invested in this ratrace. Phinnaeus Gage is absolutely right! So is everybody else here. You just don't say it will ship when it's done. If you say this here, at a global, multinational company that i work for, you'll get fired instantly. Above all, it's a U.S. based company! So, calming my nerves with a bit of chocolate, i say THIS:

I have a group-buy open for Avalon chips. I also want to build PCBs for them. Currently i've passed the design to the factory so they can make a BOM and give me a quotation on the modular boards. I have also passed the Klondike design to get a quotation for smaller, 16 chips PCBs. Let us diversify the ASIC offer. I would gladly cancel my March BFL order and have that $800 invested in this. Why?  Because i will deliver a lot sooner for myslef than BFL will ever deliver for me. I have realized this a lot earlier, but BFL doesn't give a shit about us. Do you know what's even better? I will deliver 5 GH at a smaller price than BFL! Why? Just for the heck of it. Just because i can! I'm asking 0.079 BTC for the Avalon chips on the group-buy. Why? Because i can!
I'm sick of people making fun of us. And i will try to cure Bitcoin's black eye(s), because i beieve in it.

Best regards to all,
Steve

[smoothie]

BFL_Josh: "Originally Posted by swissminer  

Hi Josh
I understand your frustration. Having worked in IT as an engineer and project management consultant, I believe that you could not survive in a corporate environment if you would tell your customers or superiors, it is done when it is done.
Certainly there were numerous key mistakes made along the process or BFL would not be in this situation. Giving a concise end date, when really overall schedule uncertainty was in the order of >100% was one of them.

Huh... my past employment history would seem to disagree with your assessment. I have told many a supervisor that it will be done when it's done. That's the thing about being in a position where your skills are valued and you aren't just another cog in the machine. You are the one driving the timeline, because you produce results. If someone is telling you when something will be done, you aren't the one delivering results... the guy or gal telling you when to do it is the one delivering results. You're just a replaceable part at that point."

And here we seem to cut to the chase of BFLs failure: Arrogance and total lack of project management.

Josh: "I have told many a supervisor that it will be done when it's done."

Never in my whole work experience (25 years in IT) did any one of my superiors accept a "it's done when it's done". They always wanted to have some estimate (time, effort or money wise). This simple is the way professionals work.
 

Josh: "That's the thing about being in a position where your skills are valued and you aren't just another cog in the machine."

Josh is hinting that only in "his position" one can do whatever he wants, because his skills are so much more valuable than the skills of anyone else (aka us worker slaves). That he doesn't have to play by the rules.

This ignorance and this arrogance will be the downfall of BFL.

Pride goes before a fall.

BFL and Josh are no different. Josh is too prideful to see it until he will hit rock bottom.

Just watch folks...it isn't hard to spot.

PirateAt40 suffered from this as well as MNW.

[smoothie]

I don't think there will be a 'downfall' to BFL.  I think they will achieve everything they set out to achieve and probably more than they expected to.

Your statement above is already a fail.

They missed their October, Nov, Dec ... April dates for shipping.

They missed their specs. Mini Rig has no real solution (their supposed cases are too small)

just to name a few things they set out to achieve and failed.

So no your expectations are already in the clouds and unrealistic when it comes to BFL.

Plain and simple.

[buddrulez]

NFL so many lies!

[Red_Evil]

I don't think there will be a 'downfall' to BFL.  I think they will achieve everything they set out to achieve and probably more than they expected to.

Your statement above is already a fail.

They missed their October, Nov, Dec ... April dates for shipping.

They missed their specs. Mini Rig has no real solution (their supposed cases are too small)

just to name a few things they set out to achieve and failed.

So no your expectations are already in the clouds and unrealistic when it comes to BFL.

Plain and simple.

Best part about this are the many many cases they are bought for the asics i know some picture with a warehouse with 40 - 50 cases ^^

[smoothie]

I don't think there will be a 'downfall' to BFL.  I think they will achieve everything they set out to achieve and probably more than they expected to.

Your statement above is already a fail.

They missed their October, Nov, Dec ... April dates for shipping.

They missed their specs. Mini Rig has no real solution (their supposed cases are too small)

just to name a few things they set out to achieve and failed.

So no your expectations are already in the clouds and unrealistic when it comes to BFL.

Plain and simple.

Best part about this are the many many cases they are bought for the asics i know some picture with a warehouse with 40 - 50 cases ^^

Yup. This just goes to show how wasteful BFL is in their R&D for ASICs. Just imagine how much more wasteful they were/are on their development with the fab(s).

Utter fail.

[Bicknellski]

The updates don't seem to be much of anything other than reasons for delays.

It is unfortunate more people are getting sucked into paying for something that has yet to ship in any quantity at the specifications they promised.

[PuertoLibre]

what i dot understand is one point ,

BFL ask her Customer for a refund or a new waiting time for a few weeks ...

when will the customer demand again?

after 3 Month ? 10 Month ?

If people used Paypal after April 1st. Then, the noobs will request refunds in about 2 to 3 days if they still want PayPal Buyer Protection.

Without it, they are at the mercy of BFL.