Can there still be a Bitcoin Cash (BCC) fork on August 1st

[NoBit]

This is the first time I hear about this fork. What's the possibility of this happening?

Has Segwit2X lock-in avoided a Bitcoin fork?
Segwit2X locked-in on July 21st with +90% miner support so many people could now be tempted to assume that the scaling debate is over and Bitcoin is now good to scale to the masses. Unfortunately that is not the case at all and a Bitcoin fork is still almost certain. Segwit2X activation has just changed the dynamics of the scenario that will most likely play out during the reminder of 2017. What follows is a description of what I believe at this point is how things will most likely develop.
Bitcoin Cash forks on August 1st.
Bitcoin Cash (BCC), as it has been named, is a Bitcoin implementation without segwit and other minor features like replace-by-fee transactions. I believe it is the alternative implementation that Bitmain claimed was being developed as a contingency plan in their User Activated Hard Fort (UAHF) block post here. Despite claims that the UAHF would only trigger in case of the BIP148 User Activated Soft Fork (BIP148 UASF) it looks like in the past few weeks the project became autonomous and some people have decided to go ahead regardless of miner support. Interestingly the BCC developers have also added a ‘slow’ mining difficulty reduction algorithm just in case miner support is low. Furthermore there are at least 3 client implementations that will be supporting BCC one way or another. These are Bitcoin ABC, Bitcoin Unlimited and Bitcoin Classic. What all this means is that a segwit-less chain will form on August 1st even if miner or user support is very low. The difficulty reduction algorithm will make sure that the BCC blockchain will eventually continue to be extended.
Leaving philosophical consideration regarding Bitcoin aside one would be tempted to consider BCC a futile experiment given the super majority of miners that are currently supporting Segwit2X. However there is more to this story if you follow the rabbit’s hole deep enough.
Firstly, I expect at least 5% or maybe even 10% of the current hashing power to follow the BCC chain from the beginning. I’m reasoning by analogy with the split between Ethereum and Ethereum Classic one year ago. There is a subset of miners that will stay faithful to what they may see as Satoshi’s true vision of Bitcoin scaling and will follow their conviction regardless of short term financial considerations. Also if the difficulty is goes down enough some marginal miners with less efficient asics or even gpus could join. Furthermore mining BCC could be a potentially very lucrative speculative trade as it will become clear later on in this post.
Secondly, I do believe that some of the miners that are currently supporting Segwit2X have a vested interested in keeping the BCC blockchain alive. This could mean that miners could direct a fraction of their hashing power to the newborn BCC blockchain or at least keep that hashing power ready to switch in the likely event that BCC blockchain will be attacked. But why would miners engage is this apparently irrational behavior? To answer this question we need to fast forward Segwit2X by 3 months.
Segwit2X Take 2: The Hard Fork.
Segwit2X is a political compromise to end a years long stagnation in Bitcoin scaling development due to disagreements on how it should be done. Basically Segwit2X implements Segwit now plus an automatic hard fork to raise the block size limit to 2 MB in approximately 3 months time. Even though BTC1, the reference Segwit2X implementation, has the 2X part built in, a miner that does not intent to fork can simply switch back to an implementation that will not enforce the fork like for example Bitcoin Core. In other words there is absolutely nothing in Segwit2X forcing a miner or user to accept bigger blocks in the future.
I have been spending quite some time researching the possible moves of so called ‘small blockers’ post Segwit2X lock-in and is pretty clear to me that there is a very significant portion of Bitcoin developers and users that have no intention whatsoever to carry on with the 2X part of Segwit2X. Of course 3 months still need to pass and in this period of time people could change their minds but that is highly unlikely. Many people in the Bitcoin ecosystem have strong economic incentives to make the blocksize as small as possible and to keep the network running at full capacity with very high fees to sell ‘layer 2’ solutions like lightning network services an so forth.
Segwit2X has not avoided a fork in Bitcoin, it has just delayed its onset by 3 months max.
The Future of Bitcoin Cash.
As time passes and we get closer to the Segwit2X block size increase hard fork it will become increasingly clear that a significant fraction of actors in the ecosystem will not follow the fork. At this point in time miners willing to fork to 2 MB will be left with 2 alternatives. Either carry on with the original Sewit2X plan therefore creating a 3rd Bitcoin fork (BCC, Segwit and Segwit2X) or abandon Segwit2X altogether and start mining on the BCC blockchain. I believe that the latter would be more attractive to miners as BCC will already be trading in some exchanges and will have at that point achieved ‘proof-of-concept’. Remember that miners need to convert part of the bitcoins they mine to fiat currency to pay for their electricity costs therefore they need to mine coins that have a market.
One can take this scenario a little bit further and even speculate that the whole Segwit2X is really a decoy by big block miners to get rid of small blockers and Bitcoin Core by luring them into a chain they will later abandon with the excuse that small blockers didn’t follow through with the hard fork piece. This assumption is only wild speculation on my side but I think it would be a brilliant and elegant strategy if it really exists. Of course if we get to this point there will be lengthy discussions around what defines Bitcoin and which blockchain is the real Bitcoin. If you find yourself in doubt I suggest that you take a look at Satoshi’s white paper. Bitcoin is the chain with the most mining work on it and the reason being that Bitcoin’s security model depends on the collective efforts of miners. Ceteris paribus more miners mean a more secure and hence valuable Bitcoin. Everything else is in my opinion just hot air.
A Word Of Caution Before August 1st.
Cryptocurrency forks have been sold to the public by some gurus as inherently dangerous. This statement can be accepeted by most people as true since a coin split is not a very natural phenomenon in the sense that we are not used to seeing our fiat currencies split. (Interestingly though discussions in the Eurozone some years ago pointed to the Euro splitting but that hasn’t materialized, at least until now.). The fact is that a coin split from the perspective of a coin holder is really not that evil because if you own a coin before the fork you will still own that same coin on each branch. I know I am making simplifications and assumptions regarding the technical skills of the coin holder here but fundamentally you only lose money in a fork if the aggregate value of the new coins is smaller than the original coin. Of course if the aggregate value of the new coins is bigger then the fork has a positive impact in your net worth.
When fork time comes a prudent bitcoiner will make sure that her bitcoins are stored in a wallet she owns the private keys and not in an exchange. If you still be leaving your coins in an exchange come August 1st I strongly recommend that you chose an exchange that has publicly committed to allowing customers to withdraw coins from all forks. Some significant exchanges have already announced that they will not be supporting the BCC fork. What this really means is that the exchange is planning to keep the forked coins for themselves. Just think how ugly things could get if BCC later turns out to be valuable.

https://medium.com/@jmanini/has-segwit2x-lock-in-avoided-a-bitcoin-fork-afd2fd72bcc9

[Cryptology]

https://www.bitcoinabc.org/

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinABC/

[Anno MMXVI]

It is still possible even though SegWit is incredibly plebiscited. However it would die pretty fast and the traitors would eventually go back to the main chain because they have to win money and since their altcoin will be worthless they will leave it pretty fastly.

[Netnox]

It is still possible even though SegWit is incredibly plebiscited. However it would die pretty fast and the traitors would eventually go back to the main chain because they have to win money and since their altcoin will be worthless they will leave it pretty fastly.

It is not going to die anytime soon. There are a lot of powerful people with fat pockets supporting the BCC. And you need to remember that morality and ethos comes last during investment. The only thing which matters is the probability of getting a good profit.

[BitcoinHodler]

an altcoin can always be created from forking bitcoin at any moment it has nothing to do with August 1.

the bitmain's UAHF was the counter attack that they were planning on doing (or at least threatening to do it) on August 1 in case UASF was successful.
then they started a new test to see how things will go with the new name. giving it fancy name and calling it "cash" to play on emotions of bitcoin users.

but it is an altcoin because it is a fork without support.

[Netnox]

BitcoinCash or BitcoinABC fork will happen, but i doubt it could earn support from bitcoin community. I bet people will dump this coin as soon as block/chain split happen and most BitcoinCash/BitcoinABC supporters only care about profit

What about the other community members, devs and the users? 90% of them only care about money. Why do you think so many people are using altcoins such as Ethereum, Litecoin and Ripple? They want to earn profits by investing in these currencies. BCC will be another attractive altcoin out there.

[Iranus]

BitcoinCash will happen, but i doubt it could earn support from bitcoin community.

To be honest I find this almost impossible to gauge.

It won't gain a majority of support from the BTC community - it simply doesn't have enough support from miners or nodes, or any significant publicity outside of r/btc.  Also, I do think there will be a herd effect in which most people switch back to the main chain when UASF and Bitcoin Cash don't get enough support.

However, the levels of support are mostly based on polls advertised in a biased way, and there are a huge number of BTC users that we never hear the opinions of.

So it's really impossible to tell.

[Anno MMXVI]

It is still possible even though SegWit is incredibly plebiscited. However it would die pretty fast and the traitors would eventually go back to the main chain because they have to win money and since their altcoin will be worthless they will leave it pretty fastly.

It is not going to die anytime soon. There are a lot of powerful people with fat pockets supporting the BCC. And you need to remember that morality and ethos comes last during investment. The only thing which matters is the probability of getting a good profit.

Oh, you think so ? So let's say it stays, I still doubt it will get any support outside its creators, so I am not fearing that much. Bitmain plays the big guy because of Antpool, but be sure that once the miners will be mining an altcoin and not the original Bitcoin their hashrate will disminish hardly. I think Bitmain will lose Antpool and the fortune it brings us.

[Sniper44]

BitcoinCash or BitcoinABC fork will happen, but i doubt it could earn support from bitcoin community. I bet people will dump this coin as soon as block/chain split happen and most BitcoinCash/BitcoinABC supporters only care about profit

this is actually what i was thinking when i saw a couple of members supporting this!
we all know it is a stupid fork with no real support, so the only other conclusion that we can make is that these people are excited about the "free" coins they are going to get in order to dump and use the money to buy more bitcoin.
i don't know, i find it pretty dumb move.

[NoBit]

It is still possible even though SegWit is incredibly plebiscited. However it would die pretty fast and the traitors would eventually go back to the main chain because they have to win money and since their altcoin will be worthless they will leave it pretty fastly.

It is not going to die anytime soon. There are a lot of powerful people with fat pockets supporting the BCC. And you need to remember that morality and ethos comes last during investment. The only thing which matters is the probability of getting a good profit.

Oh, you think so ? So let's say it stays, I still doubt it will get any support outside its creators, so I am not fearing that much. Bitmain plays the big guy because of Antpool, but be sure that once the miners will be mining an altcoin and not the original Bitcoin their hashrate will disminish hardly. I think Bitmain will lose Antpool and the fortune it brings us.

Bitmain will not use Antpool to mine Bitcoincash. They probably already have their own dedicated hardware manufactured especially for BCC. Why should they build more ASICS for bitcoin? They can easily overtake every other manufacturer and control mining. 

[Anno MMXVI]

It is still possible even though SegWit is incredibly plebiscited. However it would die pretty fast and the traitors would eventually go back to the main chain because they have to win money and since their altcoin will be worthless they will leave it pretty fastly.

It is not going to die anytime soon. There are a lot of powerful people with fat pockets supporting the BCC. And you need to remember that morality and ethos comes last during investment. The only thing which matters is the probability of getting a good profit.

Oh, you think so ? So let's say it stays, I still doubt it will get any support outside its creators, so I am not fearing that much. Bitmain plays the big guy because of Antpool, but be sure that once the miners will be mining an altcoin and not the original Bitcoin their hashrate will disminish hardly. I think Bitmain will lose Antpool and the fortune it brings us.

Bitmain will not use Antpool to mine Bitcoincash. They probably already have their own dedicated hardware manufactured especially for BCC. Why should they build more ASICS for bitcoin? They can easily overtake every other manufacturer and control mining. 

Why would they have their own hardware ? If they had loads of ASICs they would already been using them and not let them lie around. So if they use it is on Antpool, so there will be added hashrate in case of a fork from them.

[NoBit]

It is still possible even though SegWit is incredibly plebiscited. However it would die pretty fast and the traitors would eventually go back to the main chain because they have to win money and since their altcoin will be worthless they will leave it pretty fastly.

It is not going to die anytime soon. There are a lot of powerful people with fat pockets supporting the BCC. And you need to remember that morality and ethos comes last during investment. The only thing which matters is the probability of getting a good profit.

Oh, you think so ? So let's say it stays, I still doubt it will get any support outside its creators, so I am not fearing that much. Bitmain plays the big guy because of Antpool, but be sure that once the miners will be mining an altcoin and not the original Bitcoin their hashrate will disminish hardly. I think Bitmain will lose Antpool and the fortune it brings us.

Bitmain will not use Antpool to mine Bitcoincash. They probably already have their own dedicated hardware manufactured especially for BCC. Why should they build more ASICS for bitcoin? They can easily overtake every other manufacturer and control mining.  

Why would they have their own hardware ? If they had loads of ASICs they would already been using them and not let them lie around. So if they use it is on Antpool, so there will be added hashrate in case of a fork from them.

They have enough hardware spread around different pools waiting to be pointed to BCC. Why would they add all their hardware to Antpool. I am pretty sure Bitmain holds more than 51% of the network.

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

Bitmain started Bitcoin ABC as a result of BIP148 and publicly stated that if BIP148 did not activate neither would Bitcoin ABC. However ViaBTC seems ready to go ahead with Bitcoin ABC even planning to pre-sell Bitcoin ABC cloud mining starting July 22.

[jonald_fyookball]

It's happening. 

Segshit and second fail layers aren't the bitcoin I signed up for. 

[Catmony]

BitcoinCash or BitcoinABC fork will happen, but i doubt it could earn support from bitcoin community. I bet people will dump this coin as soon as block/chain split happen and most BitcoinCash/BitcoinABC supporters only care about profit

But where they gonna dump those free shitcoins they will get by just holding their bitcoins because no any big exchange will list them. Might be bitcoin### will pay fee to get listed in few of the altcoin trading platform in the form of another bitcoin clone without any significant value 

[hv_]

It's happening.  

Segshit and second fail layers aren't the bitcoin I signed up for.  

Yep, looks like.

Some might have to learn the hard way...

The masses are always as dump as the dumpest of that mass

Let s see how much is really used of all that.

My hope is still to cut down the base protocol after some lessons learnd, guess its not too late.

The worst thing that might happen is that they finally break the NYA as well and everything falls apart.

Maybe this is a new start?

[Cryptology]

BCC is currently trading at ViaTC at 17% of BTC's value. Not bad at all.

http://imgur.com/a/3Ct28

[hatshepsut93]

It is still possible even though SegWit is incredibly plebiscited. However it would die pretty fast and the traitors would eventually go back to the main chain because they have to win money and since their altcoin will be worthless they will leave it pretty fastly.

It is not going to die anytime soon. There are a lot of powerful people with fat pockets supporting the BCC. And you need to remember that morality and ethos comes last during investment. The only thing which matters is the probability of getting a good profit.

If someone will try to support ABC from their pockets, they'll just get burned because all the Bitcoin users will be dumping their free ABC coins. It might even catch some hype shortly after release, but in long term it will get get dumped hard, because it's essentially an airdrop altcoin with no significant innovation, no talented dev deam, only greedy Jihan who wants to sell more miners.

[Anno MMXVI]

It is still possible even though SegWit is incredibly plebiscited. However it would die pretty fast and the traitors would eventually go back to the main chain because they have to win money and since their altcoin will be worthless they will leave it pretty fastly.

It is not going to die anytime soon. There are a lot of powerful people with fat pockets supporting the BCC. And you need to remember that morality and ethos comes last during investment. The only thing which matters is the probability of getting a good profit.

Oh, you think so ? So let's say it stays, I still doubt it will get any support outside its creators, so I am not fearing that much. Bitmain plays the big guy because of Antpool, but be sure that once the miners will be mining an altcoin and not the original Bitcoin their hashrate will disminish hardly. I think Bitmain will lose Antpool and the fortune it brings us.

Bitmain will not use Antpool to mine Bitcoincash. They probably already have their own dedicated hardware manufactured especially for BCC. Why should they build more ASICS for bitcoin? They can easily overtake every other manufacturer and control mining.  

Why would they have their own hardware ? If they had loads of ASICs they would already been using them and not let them lie around. So if they use it is on Antpool, so there will be added hashrate in case of a fork from them.

They have enough hardware spread around different pools waiting to be pointed to BCC. Why would they add all their hardware to Antpool. I am pretty sure Bitmain holds more than 51% of the network.

You are scaring me... I doubt they have more than half of the mining power, but you might be right concerning the fact they have a big hashing power. Anyway I will withdraw my coins as soon as possible from my trading accounts and wait to see what will happen...

[doomloop]

an altcoin can always be created from forking bitcoin at any moment it has nothing to do with August 1.

the bitmain's UAHF was the counter attack that they were planning on doing (or at least threatening to do it) on August 1 in case UASF was successful.
then they started a new test to see how things will go with the new name. giving it fancy name and calling it "cash" to play on emotions of bitcoin users.

but it is an altcoin because it is a fork without support.

you are very right in this point the importance and the extra ordinary use of the bitcoin is not rely on the date august first it is a date when bitcoin was popular as a currency of the time the value of the bitcoin increased and it gained the importance and the value as a real currency so I think bitcoin will remain the same as it was.