Do the miners need the Bitcoin users?

[Kprawn]

I think we need to evaluate the users value in this experiment. Let's list the benefits of having users in this Bitcoin network.

~ Users generate transactions, which generates miners fees.
~ Users create services that accepts bitcoins as a payment option.
~ Users use services {Merchants} that accepts Bitcoin.
~ Users spread the word about Bitcoin. {Bitcoin Meetups & posting on forums}
~ Users create demand for bitcoins and this increase the value {price}

Let's list some more contributions that Bitcoin users bring to the table for this experiment to work. Once we have seen the value they bring, we will know how to make a success of this.

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[BillyBobZorton]

I think we need to evaluate the users value in this experiment. Let's list the benefits of having users in this Bitcoin network.

~ Users generate transactions, which generates miners fees.
~ Users create services that accepts bitcoins as a payment option.
~ Users use services {Merchants} that accepts Bitcoin.
~ Users spread the word about Bitcoin. {Bitcoin Meetups & posting on forums}
~ Users create demand for bitcoins and this increase the value {price}

Let's list some more contributions that Bitcoin users bring to the table for this experiment to work. Once we have seen the value they bring, we will know how to make a success of this.

What else do you need? with the reasons you posted is enough. If you take these away, how are miners supposed to survive? Users generate the value by supply and demand, and these transactions generate revenue for miners. Users are also usually coders too (all coders are bitcoin users).

You can't take the users part out of the equation because the whole system collapses, it's just nonsense.

[SvenBomvolen]

~ Users speculate with the information about bitcoin, in the result they can make the price for bitcoin go down or raise up, like it was on the last week with blowing up the fake panic about bitcoin's price after SegWit.

[Kprawn]

~ Users speculate with the information about bitcoin, in the result they can make the price for bitcoin go down or raise up, like it was on the last week with blowing up the fake panic about bitcoin's price after SegWit.

Miners can also do this and they usually have the most coins to manipulate the markets. They also provide the supply of new

coins, which influence the price. They need the users to buy those coins and they need the users to distribute those coins, for

them to be profitable. They can mine those coins, but if it had no value, they would operate at a loss. {paying for the

electricity and other expenses and receiving a Block reward with no value} 

[~Bitcoin~]

~ Users run full nodes which will add stability to bitcoin network
~ Users will actively trade bitcoin for both short term and long term profit this creates investment opportunity and attracts new investors

[Despacito]

I think we need to evaluate the users value in this experiment. Let's list the benefits of having users in this Bitcoin network.

~ Users generate transactions, which generates miners fees.
~ Users create services that accepts bitcoins as a payment option.
~ Users use services {Merchants} that accepts Bitcoin.
~ Users spread the word about Bitcoin. {Bitcoin Meetups & posting on forums}
~ Users create demand for bitcoins and this increase the value {price}

Let's list some more contributions that Bitcoin users bring to the table for this experiment to work. Once we have seen the value they bring, we will know how to make a success of this.

Merchants and bitcoin users, not traders only people who use it on shopping, are the real users of bitcoin, while the most of the price movement is coming from bitcoin investors and traders who don't really care whether they're able to use bitcoin on shopping. Hence, I don't think miners need bitcoin users, they just need bitcoin traders and investors.

[bouren]

Both users and miners are interdependent. Relation between both is similar to one between shopkeeper and customers. If you say, miners require users because of bla bla bla, don't forget not everyone could setup and running mining in his house. If there are no miners, all users will left with unmovable BTC tokens in their wallet which eventually loose their value.

[swogerino]

They do. If users don't do the listed activities in this thread how are the miners supposed to survive ?  If users do not make transactions and not pay miners fees how will miners survive ? Also when all bitcoins will be mined the miners will be reluctant only on transactions fees. I think miners cannot survive without the Bitcoin users.

[hatshepsut93]

~Users sell coins, which pushes the price down.

This means that any change to the network that will get rejected by economic majority (dumped) will ultimately fail, because it will be unprofitable to mine. Mining is a business - you produce coins for users, if they don't like them, you go bankrupt. This means that chain splits are not as scary as people think, because bad chains will be rejected by community.

[Yakamoto]

I think we need to evaluate the users value in this experiment. Let's list the benefits of having users in this Bitcoin network.

~ Users generate transactions, which generates miners fees.
~ Users create services that accepts bitcoins as a payment option.
~ Users use services {Merchants} that accepts Bitcoin.
~ Users spread the word about Bitcoin. {Bitcoin Meetups & posting on forums}
~ Users create demand for bitcoins and this increase the value {price}

Let's list some more contributions that Bitcoin users bring to the table for this experiment to work. Once we have seen the value they bring, we will know how to make a success of this.

Users also run nodes (although miners can always do this too) which help the network to keep transactions moving and allows for new users (and existing users) to sync their wallets with the blockchain.

Aside from that though users don't do a whole lot to help the blockchain itself, they do external services like the ones you mentioned but that's all part of getting an economic system to run properly.

[Qartersa]

I think we need to evaluate the users value in this experiment. Let's list the benefits of having users in this Bitcoin network.

~ Users generate transactions, which generates miners fees.
~ Users create services that accepts bitcoins as a payment option.
~ Users use services {Merchants} that accepts Bitcoin.
~ Users spread the word about Bitcoin. {Bitcoin Meetups & posting on forums}
~ Users create demand for bitcoins and this increase the value {price}

Let's list some more contributions that Bitcoin users bring to the table for this experiment to work. Once we have seen the value they bring, we will know how to make a success of this.

Not to mention, without users then all this would be for nothing. The miners are the most selfish here as they don't really see users as a equal in deciding stuff. They like the gods whenever there is decisions on any matters about the software of bitcoins. Without anyone using bitcoins what is the point of mining? Just a collection of worthless coins.

[bitbunnny]

Of course the miners need users, what else? Why would they mine Bitcoin if there was no one to use it, that makes no sense. Miners and users are connected and need mutual relationship. The pitty is that some miners don't understand that and they are too much self centered and think they are the most.important in that chain which is not true at all.

[sukron14]

Yes it is true that miners and bitcoin users need each other for each other, for example the miners get some bitcoin and want to sell it, that's where bitcoin users need to buy bitcoin the miner

[reflector]

~Users sell coins, which pushes the price down.

This means that any change to the network that will get rejected by economic majority (dumped) will ultimately fail, because it will be unprofitable to mine. Mining is a business - you produce coins for users, if they don't like them, you go bankrupt. This means that chain splits are not as scary as people think, because bad chains will be rejected by community.

Even they can other altcoins as well. If says purely about bitcoin, miners no need to worry about it they can stick with any altcoin also in future. Bitcoin need miners help to get the amount transacted from one wallet to another wallet.

[Ucy]

Great job op!  I read a guy who seem to be a miner, writing that "little users" have no stake in Bitcoin. I wanted to prove him wrong but couldn't think of something to use.
It's thesame reason why few elites have hijacked World. They erroneously believe they made us who we are.
Wonder how far they will go if everyone stops buying their products.

Many of us little users have done our part spreading the word on social media.
I bet very few miners do thesame thing. They are only concerned about their business.

[unamis76]

OP asked a question and replied to himself. We can conclude straight away from his post that miners need users and vice versa...

[stompix]

Both users and miners are interdependent. Relation between both is similar to one between shopkeeper and customers. If you say, miners require users because of bla bla bla, don't forget not everyone could setup and running mining in his house. If there are no miners, all users will left with unmovable BTC tokens in their wallet which eventually loose their value.

The blockchain can run with one guy mining the blocks as proven by satoshi.
The value of BTC with only one person using it it zero, or 1/25 000 of a pizza.

So from this you can start thinking who needs the other guys more.

[Fishbones78]

YES.

No need to compile a list here. Think about this, if nobody uses Bitcoin, like the old days, its literally worthless. It was a couple of cents a piece once upon a time because nobody used it.

People can barely afford to mine right now, imagine what it would be like now with such a high difficulty and if XBT was $0.10 a piece. It would spell extinction.

[franky1]

OP

your definition of 'miners' is inaccurate/non descript. miners are mainly just those that run ASICS.. asics dont have hard drives. asics dont collate the data, asics dont make transactions they just hash

people can be just 'miners' and not have any nodes or access to exchanges/services.

POOLS that collate the data into blocks are only part of the symbiotic relationship. pools dont need to run asics themselves they can just run a server and let miners(customers) use their server, where the pools takes a cut from the income from serving miners.

this does not mean pools cannot be miners or miners cannot be pools.
this does not mean that miners cannot be node users and node users cannot be miners.

but to presume that the definitions are automatically both(more than their singular real definition) is limited thinking.

once you grasp that "users" can also be a merchant, or and exchange, or a pool, or a miner. or even just a SPV running transaction spender(non-node) then it will make it easier to grasp the complexity of the network.

..
in short you cannot just have asics..
in short you cannot just have pools..
in short you cannot just have users..

..
but say the network was made up of two users, where one user was a pool, a merchant, a exchange and a asic farm.. EG BTCC.. then BTCC is then very centralised and has dominant control of what gets accepted into blocks(pool control) also sets the price of the rewards for the other user to buy at (exchange control) and the exchange rate of buying produce away from the exchange(merchant control)

by separating the 'task' / parts of the network it helps reduce the control BTCC(for this example) has on the network from the economics point of view.

..
as for the technical/ protocol point of view
by separating the 'task' / parts of the network it allows merchants exchanges and users to choose which blocks they accept, which the causes the pools to conform to the rules which the (non-pool nodes) have,
otherwise the rewards cannot be spent, because the pools non-conformity blocks are not recognised in the blockchain the exchanges/merchants decide as being valid.

[Kakmakr]

I always see comments where people play down the value that users add to Bitcoin. I want to say, if users seize to use Bitcoin, the whole network will collapse. In the future, transactions has to increase in volume to generate enough miners fees to replace the Block reward and if this does not happen, miners will have no incentive to mine.

Miners need users for the miners fees, to keep mining in the future. ^smile^