Do the miners need the Bitcoin users?

[alexsamudra]

Miners will use their expertise to get very good results, users are mining bitcoin to get the gold that will be used as paper money.

[1715252083]

1715252083

[1715252083]

1715252083

[1715252083]

1715252083

[1715252083]

1715252083

[KellyCoin]

OP

your definition of 'miners' is inaccurate/non descript. miners are mainly just those that run ASICS.. asics dont have hard drives. asics dont collate the data, asics dont make transactions they just hash

people can be just 'miners' and not have any nodes or access to exchanges/services.

POOLS that collate the data into blocks are only part of the symbiotic relationship. pools dont need to run asics themselves they can just run a server and let miners(customers) use their server, where the pools takes a cut from the income from serving miners.

this does not mean pools cannot be miners or miners cannot be pools.
this does not mean that miners cannot be node users and node users cannot be miners.

but to presume that the definitions are automatically both(more than their singular real definition) is limited thinking.

once you grasp that "users" can also be a merchant, or and exchange, or a pool, or a miner. or even just a SPV running transaction spender(non-node) then it will make it easier to grasp the complexity of the network.

..
in short you cannot just have asics..
in short you cannot just have pools..
in short you cannot just have users..

..
but say the network was made up of two users, where one user was a pool, a merchant, a exchange and a asic farm.. EG BTCC.. then BTCC is then very centralised and has dominant control of what gets accepted into blocks(pool control) also sets the price of the rewards for the other user to buy at (exchange control) and the exchange rate of buying produce away from the exchange(merchant control)

by separating the 'task' / parts of the network it helps reduce the control BTCC(for this example) has on the network from the economics point of view.

..
as for the technical/ protocol point of view
by separating the 'task' / parts of the network it allows merchants exchanges and users to choose which blocks they accept, which the causes the pools to conform to the rules which the (non-pool nodes) have,
otherwise the rewards cannot be spent, because the pools non-conformity blocks are not recognised in the blockchain the exchanges/merchants decide as being valid.

Good post about how everything is interconnected.

[krishnapramod]

Both users and miners are interdependent. Relation between both is similar to one between shopkeeper and customers. If you say, miners require users because of bla bla bla, don't forget not everyone could setup and running mining in his house. If there are no miners, all users will left with unmovable BTC tokens in their wallet which eventually loose their value.

Yeah I do agree with both being interdependent. I wouldn't say one is superior to another, both have a role to play in the efficient maintenance of Bitcoin ecosystem. There is a common thread between users and miners, fees. One receives it, one pays it. There is a slight imbalance here, agreeable that miners have heavily invested into mining and it is also true that there is fee manipulation to some extent by some miners who want to break even quickly with transaction fees.

Since both users and miners are equally important, users need to have a say or a choice in the amount of fee they are paying, maybe things would get better after Segwit is activated.

Not saying that fee should be lowered to the extent where it is unprofitable for miners. There should be an average fee that both users and miners are comfortable with. No one wants users leaving the network because of high fees or miners quitting because of low fees.

[maokoto]

Not just with Bitcoin, but with anything, users are needed. Not even the Internet would be worth a thing if there were no users. Of course, someone has to keep things running like miners do, but when you have something running is because you have the hope for someone (at least one) to make use of it.

[zarados]

In other words, the user is like a customer for a miner like a bank and its customers. Miner provides the facility to transact and user is free to use it by paying the fee charged. So without any customers, the bank can not grow, as well as miner and user. Can it be said that way?

[paul gatt]

I think we need to evaluate the users value in this experiment. Let's list the benefits of having users in this Bitcoin network.

~ Users generate transactions, which generates miners fees.
~ Users create services that accepts bitcoins as a payment option.
~ Users use services {Merchants} that accepts Bitcoin.
~ Users spread the word about Bitcoin. {Bitcoin Meetups & posting on forums}
~ Users create demand for bitcoins and this increase the value {price}

Let's list some more contributions that Bitcoin users bring to the table for this experiment to work. Once we have seen the value they bring, we will know how to make a success of this.

That is of course, the value of bitcoin does not depend on miners, the value of bitcoin depends entirely on the user, in other words, the miners are the only ones who maintain bitcoin transactions. However, miners are also users of bitcoin, so they have the right to make comments to protect their rights.

[dinofelis]

Let's list some more contributions that Bitcoin users bring to the table for this experiment to work. Once we have seen the value they bring, we will know how to make a success of this.

Miners are the producers of block chain, which is sold to users, which need it to put their transactions on.  The product is made by miners, and the customers are the users.  Users need to buy tokens from miners and need to pay fees to get their transactions registered on the block chain made by miners.  That's what's bitcoin is about: the selling of block chain from miners who make it, to users who buy it.

Essentially, there are about 20 companies that sell this product: the 20 important mining pools.  They subcontract the hashing work to "miner hardware owners", which get paid for that, and they deliver the consensus block chain to the users, who can read it to prove their transactions in it.

You could say that the mining pools are like Toyota ; the miner hardware owners are like the subcontractors that Toyota uses to make the brakes, the wind shield, the fuses, .... and the users are the customers that buy Toyota cars.

With that difference that the mining pools are not a single company, but a consortium of mining pools that come to oligarchic agreement of consensus, and produce a single block chain.

[bitcoinmasterlord]

I think we need to evaluate the users value in this experiment. Let's list the benefits of having users in this Bitcoin network.

~ Users generate transactions, which generates miners fees.
~ Users create services that accepts bitcoins as a payment option.
~ Users use services {Merchants} that accepts Bitcoin.
~ Users spread the word about Bitcoin. {Bitcoin Meetups & posting on forums}
~ Users create demand for bitcoins and this increase the value {price}

Let's list some more contributions that Bitcoin users bring to the table for this experiment to work. Once we have seen the value they bring, we will know how to make a success of this.

That is of course, the value of bitcoin does not depend on miners, the value of bitcoin depends entirely on the user, in other words, the miners are the only ones who maintain bitcoin transactions. However, miners are also users of bitcoin, so they have the right to make comments to protect their rights.

The miners are the base for this Bitcoin if they not mine we will not get bitcoins in the market, and the value of the bitcoin will increase. I agree that price of the bitcoin will be based on miners they have 60% contribution remaining it depends on users. Again the question will raise what about if the users stop to use Bitcoin. So this is never ending story.

[dwieyani]

The miners will use their users to bitcoin to get a lot of gold, Miners and users connected and need a mutual relationship that must brand do.

[Pettuh4]

The miners will use their users to bitcoin to get a lot of gold, Miners and users connected and need a mutual relationship that must brand do.

Well, we need to establish that mutual relationships so that we can all support the Bitcoin network in our own capacities. There's too much division among Bitcoiners and we better patch up and support each other so that the OP's on the forum like this one might not seem to suggest we are fighting amongst ourselves.