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Author Topic: Funny thing about accusations against alt-coins  (Read 1198 times)
Praxis
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May 13, 2013, 11:44:24 PM
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There are threads here all the time accusing alt coins of being mere copies that add nothing innovative and are therefore completely useless, "scamcoins", just diluting the value of serious coins ... and many times these people are Litecoin defenders, they call to arms: defend Litecoin! Stand by Litecoin! Forget all these other clones ...

Go read the original Litecoin thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47417.0

You will have a deja-vu ... when coblee posted it, people objected with the exact same arguments! (No innovation, just copy (of fairbrix/tenebrix), pump n dump, only used to dilute value of BTC ...)
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May 13, 2013, 11:54:02 PM
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We don't need more of these scrypt based scam chains. Please stop. Thank you ! BCX pls attack this crap.

 Grin
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May 14, 2013, 12:44:35 AM
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Yes sir Smiley 

-Rep- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200390.msg2119145#msg2119145
Yuri.
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May 14, 2013, 12:46:15 AM
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Time passed by and people forgot that.

Praxis
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May 14, 2013, 12:48:21 AM
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Time passed by and people forgot that.

Yes.
Now it's time to remember.
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May 14, 2013, 12:50:59 AM
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Time passed by and people forgot that.

I didn't.  I still think they apply to LTC, and find it unlikely that LTC will ever have more than a niche use, particularly if it ever grows valuable enough to justify the development and manufacture of ASICs for Scrypt mining.  And don't tell me that it can't happen, it most certainly can.

The reduced block interval isn't novel, and would prove to be a hiderance in the long run.

That doesn't mean that it's not profitable to trade in the meantime, nor that it can't work, I just don't think that the market will ever have a greater than niche place for it.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Yuri.
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May 14, 2013, 12:54:05 AM
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Time passed by and people forgot that.

I didn't.  I still think they apply to LTC, and find it unlikely that LTC will ever have more than a niche use, particularly if it ever grows valuable enough to justify the development and manufacture of ASICs for Scrypt mining.  And don't tell me that it can't happen, it most certainly can.

The reduced block interval isn't novel, and would prove to be a hiderance in the long run.

That doesn't mean that it's not profitable to trade in the meantime, nor that it can't work, I just don't think that the market will ever have a greater than niche place for it.
It might not be litecoin (and it probably won't), but if cryptocurrencies survive over the long term I doubt we will still be using bitcoin, there is just too many things that can be improved, and transactions takes far too long.

ElectricMucus
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May 14, 2013, 12:59:22 AM
 #8

Well, there is something problematic about creating a coin which does not present something unique. In case of Litecoin it was the first real scrypt bitcoin clone, that what mattered at this point.
There were also Geistgeld, tenebrix, fairbrix, etc... based on scrypt which never made it. But Litcoin did because it had the right combination of features.

Now the question is what are the right features?  Do you think that specially awarding zero day adopters ("super blocks") is it? I think not...
Changing the amount of units and or rate isn't something distinctive because the supply is homogeneous.

When it comes down to it what counts is actual programming and the ability to do so for maintaining the code to innovate.
justabitoftime
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May 14, 2013, 01:01:43 AM
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Well, there is something problematic about creating a coin which does not present something unique. In case of Litecoin it was the first real scrypt bitcoin clone, that what mattered at this point.
There were also Geistgeld, tenebrix, fairbrix, etc... based on scrypt which never made it. But Litcoin did because it had the right combination of features.

Now the question is what are the right features?  Do you think that specially awarding zero day adopters ("super blocks") is it? I think not...
Changing the amount of units and or rate isn't something distinctive because the supply is homogeneous.

When it comes down to it what counts is actual programming and the ability to do so for maintaining the code to innovate.

Great thoughts, but I disagree with the last statement. To the public, programming isn't the top priority. My mom simply wants to go to a store, use one of her cards and go on with her day. Functionality, public interest and ability to keep the tech solid is what will matter in the end.

MoonShadow
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May 14, 2013, 01:03:13 AM
 #10

Time passed by and people forgot that.

I didn't.  I still think they apply to LTC, and find it unlikely that LTC will ever have more than a niche use, particularly if it ever grows valuable enough to justify the development and manufacture of ASICs for Scrypt mining.  And don't tell me that it can't happen, it most certainly can.

The reduced block interval isn't novel, and would prove to be a hiderance in the long run.

That doesn't mean that it's not profitable to trade in the meantime, nor that it can't work, I just don't think that the market will ever have a greater than niche place for it.
It might not be litecoin (and it probably won't), but if cryptocurrencies survive over the long term I doubt we will still be using bitcoin, there is just too many things that can be improved, and transactions takes far too long.

But you guys keep forgeting that Bitcoin is not static, it has solutions to those problems, even (relatively) secure zero-comfirmation transactions.  The alt-coin section of this forum exists, in part, because anything that pops up that is particularly novel can be incorporated into the exiting bitcoin codebase, if desired.  There is also an entire class of transaction types in Bitcoin that have not even been implimented yet, like blockchain enforcable contracts, that really don't have any equivilance in any alt-coin I've explored.  For an alt-coin to ever challenge Bitcoin for the top spot, either and unfixable flaw in Bitcoin will be discovered or an alt-coin develops with a novel advantage over Bitcoin that, for whatever reason (technicall, political) cannot be intergrated into bitcoin itself.  Small tweeks aren't going to cut it, it's going to have to be something as big a leap as Bitcoin's blockchain was to precursers such as hash-cash; or it will always be a distant second.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Hydroponica
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May 14, 2013, 01:04:16 AM
 #11

Seriously? There is literally, a new coin released each day..

ElectricMucus
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May 14, 2013, 01:05:27 AM
 #12

Well, there is something problematic about creating a coin which does not present something unique. In case of Litecoin it was the first real scrypt bitcoin clone, that what mattered at this point.
There were also Geistgeld, tenebrix, fairbrix, etc... based on scrypt which never made it. But Litcoin did because it had the right combination of features.

Now the question is what are the right features?  Do you think that specially awarding zero day adopters ("super blocks") is it? I think not...
Changing the amount of units and or rate isn't something distinctive because the supply is homogeneous.

When it comes down to it what counts is actual programming and the ability to do so for maintaining the code to innovate.

Great thoughts, but I disagree with the last statement. To the public, programming isn't the top priority. My mom simply wants to go to a store, use one of her cards and go on with her day. Functionality, public interest and ability to keep the tech solid is what will matter in the end.

To have implemented functionality you need to code, it's that simple.
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May 14, 2013, 01:24:04 AM
 #13

Time passed by and people forgot that.

I didn't.  I still think they apply to LTC, and find it unlikely that LTC will ever have more than a niche use, particularly if it ever grows valuable enough to justify the development and manufacture of ASICs for Scrypt mining.  And don't tell me that it can't happen, it most certainly can.

The reduced block interval isn't novel, and would prove to be a hiderance in the long run.

That doesn't mean that it's not profitable to trade in the meantime, nor that it can't work, I just don't think that the market will ever have a greater than niche place for it.

Short reply:
You can't make an scrypt ASIC.

Long reply:
Making an scrypt ASIC would require an insane amount of memory, meaning that you will probably get less money per kh/s than if you had just bought a GPU, or maybe you'll get a slight advantage over GPUs. Either way, not worth it.

Code:
Donations: BTC: 1WoLFdwcfNEg64fTYsX1P25KUzzSjtEZC -- XMR: 45SLUTzk7UXYHmzJ7bFN6FPfzTusdUVAZjPRgmEDw7G3SeimWM2kCdnDQXwDBYGUWaBtZNgjYtEYA22aMQT4t8KfU3vHLHG
lyno
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May 14, 2013, 01:43:56 AM
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As a newbie to cryptocurrencies I think we are in a amazing situation, we watch (or are part of) kind a ultra high speed evolution. Some coins might die, some others might find their niches and survive but the important part is that this creates a ecosystem for new developments and ideas, like namecoin or curecoin for instance. I think this is just the beginning, the really amazing things are still to come.
MoonShadow
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May 14, 2013, 04:40:00 AM
 #15

Time passed by and people forgot that.

I didn't.  I still think they apply to LTC, and find it unlikely that LTC will ever have more than a niche use, particularly if it ever grows valuable enough to justify the development and manufacture of ASICs for Scrypt mining.  And don't tell me that it can't happen, it most certainly can.

The reduced block interval isn't novel, and would prove to be a hiderance in the long run.

That doesn't mean that it's not profitable to trade in the meantime, nor that it can't work, I just don't think that the market will ever have a greater than niche place for it.

Short reply:
You can't make an scrypt ASIC.

Long reply:
Making an scrypt ASIC would require an insane amount of memory, meaning that you will probably get less money per kh/s than if you had just bought a GPU, or maybe you'll get a slight advantage over GPUs. Either way, not worth it.

For now...

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Wolf0
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May 14, 2013, 10:07:07 PM
 #16

Time passed by and people forgot that.

I didn't.  I still think they apply to LTC, and find it unlikely that LTC will ever have more than a niche use, particularly if it ever grows valuable enough to justify the development and manufacture of ASICs for Scrypt mining.  And don't tell me that it can't happen, it most certainly can.

The reduced block interval isn't novel, and would prove to be a hiderance in the long run.

That doesn't mean that it's not profitable to trade in the meantime, nor that it can't work, I just don't think that the market will ever have a greater than niche place for it.

Short reply:
You can't make an scrypt ASIC.

Long reply:
Making an scrypt ASIC would require an insane amount of memory, meaning that you will probably get less money per kh/s than if you had just bought a GPU, or maybe you'll get a slight advantage over GPUs. Either way, not worth it.

For now...

Except if there is a jump in technology, it will be integrated into GPUs, so you'll end up in the same boat.

Code:
Donations: BTC: 1WoLFdwcfNEg64fTYsX1P25KUzzSjtEZC -- XMR: 45SLUTzk7UXYHmzJ7bFN6FPfzTusdUVAZjPRgmEDw7G3SeimWM2kCdnDQXwDBYGUWaBtZNgjYtEYA22aMQT4t8KfU3vHLHG
coblee
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May 16, 2013, 04:53:23 AM
 #17

have been GPU mining since the very early days.

BCX, you know better than to lie about this.

thepj
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May 16, 2013, 04:58:32 AM
 #18

have been GPU mining since the very early days.

BCX, you know better than to lie about this.
coblee..... the original miner ;-)
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