We are being used.

[bathrobehero]

Um, there is no way to stop ICOs from taking place, so this line of thinking gets absolutely nowhere.

There are plenty of legitimate cases in the crypto world that started with ICO's... Ethereum being a case and point.  It's a different world since that time though, and the model they used for an ICO is no longer legitimate.

ICO Funds need to self be ESCROWED, and ICO's need to layout their own payout and development plan.  If promises aren't kept then people need to be able to withdraw their remaining share from the escrow (can't withdraw what is already spent).   The crypto world has the solution to it's own problems in it's own hands... Smart contracts can go a long way towards making ICO's fair and safe.

If you have to rely on promises it's already a shit system - compared to Bitcoin.

And escrows doesn't do anything other than delaying the money getting into the hands of scammers.

[DylanJones]

In the game you're either a wolf or a sheep.
And we all know which ones the bankers' are

Enough sheep can kill a wolf.

[solarrobot]

If you have to rely on promises it's already a shit system - compared to Bitcoin.

And escrows doesn't do anything other than delaying the money getting into the hands of scammers.

Not really, that is the premise of any kind of crowd funding. Plenty of really exciting projects happen on kick starter that would have never happened before kickstarted existed.

A project creates a roadmap and if they don't follow their roadmap as aligned with the ICO then the funds become available for withdrawal. This could be facilitated by a neutral organization (centralized) or facilitated by an oracle (The crowd/Cloud).

[Fatoshi]

ICO = SCAM

I have laid out countless reasons why .. all of which are ignored.
Why ?
MONEY.

The thing is people with MORE money make LOTS..
Then the little guys co-op the "coin" for a small slice of profits..
..regardless if the "scheme" is legit.

I have pointed out the problem here endlessly and no one cares and no one will comment.
Aside from GTFO.
And why do i have to ?
Shouldn't the greedy hoards of losers here showing up leave ?
They will eventually anyway when they made some money then lost all of it eventually ?

It's a greedy economy in a lawless scammy environment.
And greedy does not end well.

Lecturing these guys is a waste of time.
The best that is going to happen is you will make a smarter scammer and more clever greedy profiteer.

My criticsims here for fours straight years helped these scammer evolved their craft.
OI helped them hone their little game down to a fine science.
@OP you may have recently started posting topics like this but i have been doing it 24/7 for 4 years an i helped theses douche bags evolve and fine tune their scam game.
What have i seen since ?
A never ending list of legends eaten up by greed.
A who's who of Bitcointalk that all lined up for thefts, corruption, greedy etc.

Money and power corrupts which is why i refuse to advocate ICO's.
It is a massive downgrade from the initial distribution of BTC.
If it is not improving on Bitcoins system then it is in fact pure garbage and should be avoided.
REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH YOU *COULD* MAKE OF THEM.

When i came today i seen the headline theymos put in about the BIP at the top of the page.
I right away was thinking about who CONTROLS Bitcoin.
Then i seen the Altcoin section.
ICO = CENTRALIZATION
And worse.. much much worse.

There is nothing to say.
Nothing to debate.
This is now the scam section.. it's the norm now.
Things changed years ago and Bitcointalk is long dead.
It's a farce now.. a sleazy charade of Greed.
What we see is a decentralized system 51% attacked by bag greedy losers.
This people is the result... a hot dumpster fire of greed.

I get where you are.coming from but in some ways you are part of the problem with such a ridged black and white view. You are the controlled opppsition making anyone who is against icos a blanket extremist. If the world was that dark and sinister you would be the perfect looney opposition the big icos would ask for.


My point is we as a community need to start demanding more from those who walk into crypto community hoping to scoop up all our money. Just like consumers they need us more than we need their tiny roi frankenstein icos. So when the deal from icos only benefits them we got to start saying fuck off to them.

A good starting point is to start demanding a percentage is fairly airdropped at least 30% imo. Or we tell them to fuck off away from the forum. You will be surprised how quickly new icos start doing it.


Fact is bitcointalk could reinforce this for.good of whole community today if they wanted. I mean if outsiders try to take from the community dont they have a responsibility to help us?

Also ico countdown sites should only allow icos with a certain percentage airdropped. And not some shitty signiture campaign.

[One Man Band]

I agree there should be ICO standards.

The problem is, standards require regulation, and then you're on the slippery path of becoming just another centralized + regulated bank.

[negancoin]

I know that and I dont give a damn! I use those ICOs to increase my BTC.

Really? when most new ICOs have lost money for people.....are you a wizard?

Oh yeah also I dont give a fuck about you. Cause your thinking fucks us all in the long term.

I know that and I dont give a damn! I use those ICOs to increase my BTC.

Funny how everyone who gambles with ICOs claims they're making profits. Who's losing then?

first of all, why are you at mad, it's my opinion !!
and who forced you to invest !! we know from the beginning all those altcoins are scam in somehow.
you want decentralized, so this is how it works

[Fatoshi]

I agree there should be ICO standards.

The problem is, standards require regulation, and then you're on the slippery path of becoming just another centralized + regulated bank.

Did we ever need regulations to tell 10% premines to fuck off?

If icos want to use the crypto community we need to start telling them we want a better cut or they wont get pir money. Its too.late after ico is done you got to start making clear many of us will boycott their ico without a significant airdrop. People power isnt socalism its us the consumers showing our power in a free capitalist system.

[Fatoshi]

I know that and I dont give a damn! I use those ICOs to increase my BTC.

Really? when most new ICOs have lost money for people.....are you a wizard?

Oh yeah also I dont give a fuck about you. Cause your thinking fucks us all in the long term.

I know that and I dont give a damn! I use those ICOs to increase my BTC.

Funny how everyone who gambles with ICOs claims they're making profits. Who's losing then?

first of all, why are you at mad, it's my opinion !!
and who forced you to invest !! we know from the beginning all those altcoins are scam in somehow.
you want decentralized, so this is how it works

Here is how free decentralised works....fuck off.

And i hope more people also start telling icos that take all the profits from the crypto community to fuck off too unless they want to start sharing some of the pie.

I have this hope....thats all.

[One Man Band]

Did we ever need regulations to tell 10% premines to fuck off?

If icos want to use the crypto community we need to start telling them we want a better cut or they wont get pir money. Its too.late after ico is done you got to start making clear many of us will boycott their ico without a significant airdrop. People power isnt socalism its us the consumers showing our power in a free capitalist system.

Then do something to solve the issue instead of whining about it.

It's actually a very nice problem to solve, for obvious reasons.

[fluidjax]

ICO = SCAM

I have laid out countless reasons why .. all of which are ignored.
Why ?
MONEY.

The thing is people with MORE money make LOTS..
Then the little guys co-op the "coin" for a small slice of profits..
..regardless if the "scheme" is legit.

I have pointed out the problem here endlessly and no one cares and no one will comment.
Aside from GTFO.
And why do i have to ?
Shouldn't the greedy hoards of losers here showing up leave ?
They will eventually anyway when they made some money then lost all of it eventually ?

It's a greedy economy in a lawless scammy environment.
And greedy does not end well.

Lecturing these guys is a waste of time.
The best that is going to happen is you will make a smarter scammer and more clever greedy profiteer.

My criticsims here for fours straight years helped these scammer evolved their craft.
OI helped them hone their little game down to a fine science.
@OP you may have recently started posting topics like this but i have been doing it 24/7 for 4 years an i helped theses douche bags evolve and fine tune their scam game.
What have i seen since ?
A never ending list of legends eaten up by greed.
A who's who of Bitcointalk that all lined up for thefts, corruption, greedy etc.

Money and power corrupts which is why i refuse to advocate ICO's.
It is a massive downgrade from the initial distribution of BTC.
If it is not improving on Bitcoins system then it is in fact pure garbage and should be avoided.
REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH YOU *COULD* MAKE OF THEM.

When i came today i seen the headline theymos put in about the BIP at the top of the page.
I right away was thinking about who CONTROLS Bitcoin.
Then i seen the Altcoin section.
ICO = CENTRALIZATION
And worse.. much much worse.

There is nothing to say.
Nothing to debate.
This is now the scam section.. it's the norm now.
Things changed years ago and Bitcointalk is long dead.
It's a farce now.. a sleazy charade of Greed.
What we see is a decentralized system 51% attacked by bag greedy losers.
This people is the result... a hot dumpster fire of greed.

Your posts do not go unnoticed, and I believe contribute greatly.
Start the doubt,  the seed has been sown. 

[Fatoshi]

Did we ever need regulations to tell 10% premines to fuck off?

If icos want to use the crypto community we need to start telling them we want a better cut or they wont get pir money. Its too.late after ico is done you got to start making clear many of us will boycott their ico without a significant airdrop. People power isnt socalism its us the consumers showing our power in a free capitalist system.

Then do something to solve the issue instead of whining about it.

It's actually a very nice problem to solve, for obvious reasons.

I thought i just did.

[solarrobot]

I agree there should be ICO standards.

The problem is, standards require regulation, and then you're on the slippery path of becoming just another centralized + regulated bank.

 There are all sorts of industries that self regulate. ECO friendly buildings have the LEED (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_in_Energy_and_Environmental_Design) certification. There are a number of organizations that certify the fair trade label for international goods (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade_certification).


But ICO standards do not require centralized regulation. There are open source standards all over the tech industry, there is no reason you can't have an open source, crowd built, set of ICO standards. Look at the way Creative Commons works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons_license

It wouldn't be that hard to create a set of criteria for ICO's to self or community labeled, especially if people demanded it.  Many of you are suggesting that the only way is for people to wake up and not put their cash into ICOs at all, but then its the crowds will vs large advertising campaigns.  Afraid to say it, but advertising has proven itself again and again. The only way to combat this is with some structure. A standard with a structure like creative commons, but flipped as a rating system could be simple and quite robust/flexible.

[Spoetnik]

I never posted anything here because of morality.
I posted FUD because i think it is in ALL our best interest.

Buddy yammering at me about black & White ?
Well i just told him about moving the goal posts.

Bitcoin ALREADY had flaws.. it is not our job to make a worse version of it ..8 fucking thousand times worse and worse

..for profits.

You all the majority here in control are sowing the seeds of your own demise.
It's a cycle of up's and downs.

Those of you here who have any shred of morality in you need to realize you are surrounded by a hoards of people with NONE what so ever.
You will all collectively crash this shit then a recession will hit for a year or two.
Then you will start it all over again.

It's like starting some pointless token like say Max Coin.
Making it pumped up in price.. then dumping on those caught in the net.
When you shook them all loose and most dumped for a loss..
Then you can re-buy all the cheap coins nom nom nom.. then do it all over again.
Over and over until they get tired off falling of the same trap.
Then..
Put out a new coin..
And do it all over again.

What is it you are accomplishing here people ?
Are ANY of you here for any other reason than to simply make money off of what ever is paying out ?

There are consequences and you will pay them.
Rich and corrupt will get richer and the poor ..poorer.
What ensures this is a rigged scammy corrupt game.
When they want your money they simply take it.
I say... it's like playing a game of Monopoly with a corrupt banker.
And you all play along because you think you have a *CHANCE* at walking away with a slice.
So YOU ignore the corruption etc then show up here making excuses.. "Black & white"
Yeah it is Black & White.. bad is bad ya dumb fucking idiots.

This is 99% scammy bullshit.
100% of ICO's are a scam.
You supporting them makes you a scam supporter.. for profits.
I know what will happen i can see it far in advance.
Mathematically the cards are already played.

[Fatoshi]

I never posted anything here because of morality.
I posted FUD because i think it is in ALL our best interest.

Buddy yammering at me about black & White ?
Well i just told him about moving the goal posts.

Bitcoin ALREADY had flaws.. it is not our job to make a worse version of it ..8 fucking thousand times worse and worse

..for profits.

You all the majority here in control are sowing the seeds of your own demise.
It's a cycle of up's and downs.

Those of you here who have any shred of morality in you need to realize you are surrounded by a hoards of people with NONE what so ever.
You will all collectively crash this shit then a recession will hit for a year or two.
Then you will start it all over again.

It's like starting some pointless token like say Max Coin.
Making it pumped up in price.. then dumping on those caught in the net.
When you shook them all loose and most dumped for a loss..
Then you can re-buy all the cheap coins nom nom nom.. then do it all over again.
Over and over until they get tired off falling of the same trap.
Then..
Put out a new coin..
And do it all over again.

What is it you are accomplishing here people ?
Are ANY of you here for any other reason than to simply make money off of what ever is paying out ?

There are consequences and you will pay them.
Rich and corrupt will get richer and the poor ..poorer.
What ensures this is a rigged scammy corrupt game.
When they want your money they simply take it.
I say... it's like playing a game of Monopoly with a corrupt banker.
And you all play along because you think you have a *CHANCE* at walking away with a slice.
So YOU ignore the corruption etc then show up here making excuses.. "Black & white"
Yeah it is Black & White.. bad is bad ya dumb fucking idiots.

This is 99% scammy bullshit.
100% of ICO's are a scam.
You supporting them makes you a scam supporter.. for profits.
I know what will happen i can see it far in advance.
Mathematically the cards are already played.

Nothing wrong with investing by putting bets on what the future system might be. You forget that investment made the railroads the electricity grid etc etc. Investing in it purest form is aiding the progress of the modern world. Its all your all icos are scams bullshit that is the black and white thinking i mentioned.

All im saying is investors need to fight for a better deal .before we part with pur investments. If you think i am anti speculation then you picked the wrong thread.


And yes bitcoin is flawed. When the dust clears we should have a bunch of winners for the new decentralised world. If you dont applaud that end game then I guess you really are in the wrong forum.

[omonuyak]

If we are being used by bankers here again then this evils bankers who make their money through fraudulent and deception have their agents every were.ICO is a very great channel that scam are using to actually rise capital from the market. Still there are others good ICO that have make investors a millionaires .

[unusualfacts30]

So many of these ICOs are really outsiders who have no interest in crypto but just want to grab from the pool of the crypto community.

I look at many of them and they are just fucking bankers who have hired a crypto developer to make a grab for the crypto community's money. Here is a perfect example, why do they need the blockchain to start a hedge fund?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2003741.0


I'm not against all ICO's but most are just using us as a crypto community. Until we refuse to be ass raped by these banking interests we are destined to lose money to them. We need to invest in projects that are pure crypto and not get all wet pants about any project involving some big money interests. We all lose then, they win.


BTW play spot the crypto nerd among the bankers selling out in the pictures of the team!

People have been going on about this for years, there is not much you can do except save yourself. People will keep investing no matter what you tell them but they'll learn when they get burn.

[kryptqnick]

I see you guys writing that icos can't be stopped. Nobody can forbid them releasing new and shitty coins, that's true, but it is us who are actually responsible for the effects, for among us there are people who sort of know ICOs are not good as an investment and yet they can't resist the temptation to buy something and get rich.
We have to ignore icos and they will die themselves. Or, who knows, one day we may really have a great coin released this way. ICOs are something we have to be formally tolerant with if we value freedom.

[nsasuiteb]

Yes that's true a lot of project setup a blockchain base to grab money but it is investor's problem, they will lose a lot of money.

[Spoetnik]

I see you guys writing that icos can't be stopped. Nobody can forbid them releasing new and shitty coins, that's true, but it is us who are actually responsible for the effects, for among us there are people who sort of know ICOs are not good as an investment and yet they can't resist the temptation to buy something and get rich.
We have to ignore icos and they will die themselves. Or, who knows, one day we may really have a great coin released this way. ICOs are something we have to be formally tolerant with if we value freedom.

What is funny is i already went through this ENDLESSLY here.
Every new user.
Every comment.
Every coin..

All the same bullshit.. repeated.

Last time it was coin-clones.
Now it's ICO's.

Other than that it's identical.  

[Mahanton]

So many of these ICOs are really outsiders who have no interest in crypto but just want to grab from the pool of the crypto community.

I look at many of them and they are just fucking bankers who have hired a crypto developer to make a grab for the crypto community's money. Here is a perfect example, why do they need the blockchain to start a hedge fund?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2003741.0


I'm not against all ICO's but most are just using us as a crypto community. Until we refuse to be ass raped by these banking interests we are destined to lose money to them. We need to invest in projects that are pure crypto and not get all wet pants about any project involving some big money interests. We all lose then, they win.


BTW play spot the crypto nerd among the bankers selling out in the pictures of the team!

People have been going on about this for years, there is not much you can do except save yourself. People will keep investing no matter what you tell them but they'll learn when they get burn.

True, this discussion is being discussed all over again and again which until now we cant able to find the ways on how to stop those ICO's. If you do see the marketplace (altcoins). There are too many popping out from nowhere introducing their project which do really need for investors to put up money. We can say that most of them are shitty and just really need the money without minding or serious about their plans but yet there are still some ICO which is worth investing on which you can able to see its sincerity regarding to their project. We do have different beliefs on sort of things but most people here do have the same views.