Proof of Stake Bitcoin?

[JohnBitCo]

That is too deep of a coding change and I don't even think that can be pulled off as a fork. If you were really interested in creating this type of system then what you could do is create your own website, back it with a huge chunk of change add offer the service of a savings account for Bitcoin.

[nicosey]

Isn't lightening a form of proof of stake?

[kokojie]

That is too deep of a coding change and I don't even think that can be pulled off as a fork. If you were really interested in creating this type of system then what you could do is create your own website, back it with a huge chunk of change add offer the service of a savings account for Bitcoin.

Coding is not the problem, it's difficult and time consuming, sure, but it can be done.

The issue is of course the incumbent culture and the group of developers of Bitcoin will not easily agree to even a hint of PoS. Hell it took over a year and multiple forks, and still not agree to a simple block size increase. Proof of Stake in Bitcoin? not until the heat death of the universe.

[coinmachina]

Isn't PoS completely insecure due to the nothing at stake problem?

Or is there any solution to this problem?

[d5000]

Isn't lightening a form of proof of stake?

No. Not even close Lightning is an off-chain transaction method. The only thing both have in common is that LN, on its own, doesn't require much additional electricity use. But LN needs a blockchain to work, and in the case of Bitcoin, a proof-of-work blockchain.

Isn't PoS completely insecure due to the nothing at stake problem?
Or is there any solution to this problem?

That's what was discussed here in the earlier postings. There are disagreeing views: Myself I think there are "solutions", or that the vulnerability is merely theoretical (in my opinion, above all, the "bribing attacker" scenario and also "multi-chain forging" is based on unrealistic conditions). There are others that think that the "bribing attacker" are fatal to PoS systems, or that special conditions (e.g. an "oligarchy" of cooperating whales) are needed for PoS systems to work.

[pushups44]

Bitcoin core could fork once again into a proof of stake coin. I suppose it would allow for another massive airdrop to bitcoin core holders. Ultimately the market will decide which version (or versions) succeeds.

[mrayazgul]

But you would have to develop a strong set of terms and conditions that says if somebody hasn't logged in or at least touch their account and X number of days that the account is up for grabs. A lot of legal stuff, a lot of possibility to lose money, but somebody's got to dive in there and do it.

[justspare]

People put their big coins in, and you pay monthly interest, which is basically the same as staking. There's a good possibility you could even make some money off of it, but you would have to act the way that Banks do and Leverage that overall lump of coins that are in your possession to create a greater return to the interest you're paying out.

[bitcoindev2014]

i don't think btc will move to Proof of stake 

[xoguar]

DO you guys ever think that bitcoin will do proof of stake? Just wanted to get some peoples insights on this.

I think "proof of stake" should be with the work! The system of nodes in the Dash coin is unique and quite decentralized! I think this is the best implementation of this work.

[kwukduck]

Gosh all this nonsense about PoW vs PoS.
They only way crypto can really work is by using x-byzantine-fault-tolerance, resolving the problems of both PoW and PoS.

[aleksej996]

Gosh all this nonsense about PoW vs PoS.
They only way crypto can really work is by using x-byzantine-fault-tolerance, resolving the problems of both PoW and PoS.

I found an article on Byzantine fault tolerance on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault_tolerance#In_practice
Is this what you are referring to?
I haven't read it, but I see that they say that one example of it is Bitcoin.

[kwukduck]

Gosh all this nonsense about PoW vs PoS.
They only way crypto can really work is by using x-byzantine-fault-tolerance, resolving the problems of both PoW and PoS.

I found an article on Byzantine fault tolerance on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault_tolerance#In_practice
Is this what you are referring to?
I haven't read it, but I see that they say that one example of it is Bitcoin.

Here is some beginner material:
https://themerkle.com/what-is-delegated-byzantine-fault-tolerance/
https://cryptoinsider.com/byzantine-fault-tolerance-blockchain-systems/

[khufuking]

I do not think that this can ever happen . I also think that it would be really bad for BTC if by any chance this happen someday in the future ( i HIGHLY HIGHLY DOUBT )

[Jeffreybd]

Proof of Stake is a proposed alternative to Proof of Work. Like proof of work, proof of stake attempts to provide consensus and doublespend prevention (see "main" bitcointalk thread, and a Bounty Thread). Because creating forks is costless when you aren't burning an external resource Proof of Stake alone is considered to an unworkable consensus mechanism.

[RoooooR]

I don't think this will not be a good news for the incoming miners, and i also believe people will not be allowing this to happen. I don't think Bitcoin will follow the move of ETH doing the same thing. since many coins are in ETH platform so i think that's the reason why eth decided to go for PoS.

[posternat]

That is a completely different coin. It is too big of a change to implement and there are too many other options that produce the same end results. There are a number of sites that act as a small saving bank for bitcoin and there are other ways to get to the end using a method that does not involve flipping the coins completely.

[mrayazgul]

That is too deep of a coding change and I don't even think that can be pulled off as a fork. If you were really interested in creating this type of system then what you could do is create your own website, back it with a huge chunk of change add offer the service of a savings account for Bitcoin.

And with the wrong turn of luck you could end up with your very own 1930s depression with too many people try to take their coins out of your Institution and you have them invested elsewhere. You could actually guard against this a little bit by having a pretty high minimum withdrawal. And believe it or not you would actually make some money off of deposit that people make and completely forget about or walk away from.

[adaptivedev]

At this moment, you need about $400-800 million dollars to attack the $44 billion Bitcoin chain (and in PoW too, you can get some or even all of them back by short selling in the right moment).

This $800 million sounds about right, but can you source or show how you calculated this number?

This makes PoW seem way less secure than PoS.

PoW is also a huge pointless electricity drain on the world, already using more electricity than Iceland, the country.

If prices go 1000x higher as we like, it'll be 1000 Icelands, or entire continents of power just for PoW.

PoW therefor seems to have no future.

[aleksej996]

At this moment, you need about $400-800 million dollars to attack the $44 billion Bitcoin chain (and in PoW too, you can get some or even all of them back by short selling in the right moment).

This $800 million sounds about right, but can you source or show how you calculated this number?

This makes PoW seem way less secure than PoS.

PoW is also a huge pointless electricity drain on the world, already using more electricity than Iceland, the country.

If prices go 1000x higher as we like, it'll be 1000 Icelands, or entire continents of power just for PoW.

PoW therefor seems to have no future.

There is no fixed amount that will allow you to attack Bitcoin as it depends on how long you run the attack. It is a different story on how much you would have to spend on the initial costs for buying the mining rigs.

If you already have the mining hardware then it can simply cost you as much as it costs the entire network to mine, which should be about the same as the amount they get from it, which is 12.5 bitcoins per 10 minutes on average, which is about $47000 currently per 10 min.
As for the initial costs, they are about 700 million to match the hashrate of the network, which is about 8 million TH/s, with the Bitmain's Antminer S9-14TH/s that costs 1310 USD.