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Question: At what point will you sell most of your BTC?
$200-$499 - 31 (10.4%)
$500-$999 - 20 (6.7%)
$1000-$4999 - 55 (18.5%)
$5000-$9999 - 24 (8.1%)
$10,000-$49,999 - 38 (12.8%)
>$50,000 - 48 (16.1%)
I will never sell my BTC for dirty fiat money again - 76 (25.5%)
<$200 (clarify in post) - 6 (2%)
Total Voters: 298

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Author Topic: How strong is your hand?  (Read 6131 times)
Miz4r
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May 14, 2013, 01:58:44 PM
 #1

I have a question for all you true believers in bitcoin who are buying and holding long term. How strong is your hand really? Is there a point where even you would let a good portion of your bitcoins go to cash out in fiat money? I'm not talking about selling a small amount of bitcoins, it has to be at least 50% of your total stack. Personally I don't think I will ever sell more than 50% of my bitcoins unless the whole experiment is doomed to fail (I will probably be too late then anyway). However when the price actually gets to values like $1000+ I might get tempted to release a bigger part of my stack. How about you?

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May 14, 2013, 02:06:13 PM
 #2

It may be that we don't sell them but use them to buy cars, houses, yachts or whatever.

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May 14, 2013, 02:08:10 PM
 #3

Yeah that would be great, but don't you think the current price/btc first will need to reach very high values for that to become possible? I don't think this is possible with a market cap of only a couple billion.

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May 14, 2013, 02:18:30 PM
 #4

Yeah that would be great, but don't you think the current price/btc first will need to reach very high values for that to become possible? I don't think this is possible with a market cap of only a couple billion.

2 years ago Bitcoin was worth $3.  Its now worth $115.  In that 2 years, mtgox and many other big sites have been hacked, exchanges have been arbitrarily closed down by banks and generally Bitcoin has been kicked about like a hedgehog on a village green.

Even if it carries on being hacked, arbitrarily attacked and kicked about, in 2 years time the same rate of growth takes us to each Bitcoin being worth about $4000.

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May 14, 2013, 02:29:41 PM
 #5

If I cash out, it's only because I think the price will go down and I can get more bitcoin. If bitcoin gets to $10,000-50,000, then it probably has a mass adoption rate and thus is probably accepted in most places, so I would never sell.

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May 14, 2013, 02:42:30 PM
 #6

too few options, I already sold half of my coins in the $80-$100 range.

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May 14, 2013, 02:43:22 PM
 #7

It may be that we don't sell them but use them to buy cars, houses, yachts or whatever.

Better to rent things with bitcoins I think - no reason to own anything other than bitcoins.
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May 14, 2013, 02:52:04 PM
 #8

It may be that we don't sell them but use them to buy cars, houses, yachts or whatever.

Better to rent things with bitcoins I think - no reason to own anything other than bitcoins.
+1

Owning a yacht or a house brings a lot of responsibility. With owning Bitcoin the only thing you have to worry about is keeping your Bitcoin safe, which should be pretty easy.
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May 14, 2013, 02:52:37 PM
 #9

My hand is weak but my profits are strong.

   
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Miz4r
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May 14, 2013, 02:56:26 PM
 #10

too few options, I already sold half of my coins in the $80-$100 range.

Then you're not one of the strong hands I was aiming this poll at. Wink

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May 14, 2013, 02:59:05 PM
 #11

That's true, I know that many people are just in this to earn quick money and leave Bitcoin in it's tracks.
I for one will be sticking with Bitcoin, hoping to potentially buy a house, land, and women (Jokes okay).
I would really like to pay for general items such as rent, food and delivery services within the near future.

As of yet, there are not a lot of properties selling for BTC and I hope in the near future people will be selling more properties, I think it's a go way of making BTC, couldn't get scammed because it would require a lawyer which would need to sign some papers with you and the buyer, and the payment would be sent at the time of the dealing.


Like someone said, "too few options" and yes I think there is not a lot of companies which are willing to sell for Bitcoin, I think that is partly because of the risk, but if you go by it the right way, there is little to no risk.

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May 14, 2013, 03:12:46 PM
 #12

My hand is weak but my profits are strong.

Well we'll see who trumps who in the end. The weak-handed short term profit seekers, or the strong-handed long term holders who can see beyond their own petty self-interest. I won't act like a hypocrit and admit I'm a little bit of both myself, I do envy those who are able to extract good profits from the ups and downs. But I'm also an idealist and a dreamer at heart, who wants bitcoin to succeed and see a better world come from it. Smiley

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May 14, 2013, 03:30:50 PM
 #13

Well, I'm swing trading, so this disqualifies me, I think. To be honst, I have absolutly no idea how I'd trade new levels or another crazy bubble like rally. Problem is: going down seems always to be faster than going up. Interessting thread, though.

Still I don't understand one thing: let's say you sell at 1000 $, I doubt that's the point where you say your final goodbye to Bitcoin, correct? So your real question is: where do long term holder take profit?

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May 14, 2013, 03:33:07 PM
 #14

Well... I'm looking for $135-140, so....
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May 14, 2013, 03:49:55 PM
 #15

My hand is weak but my profits are strong.

Well we'll see who trumps who in the end. The weak-handed short term profit seekers, or the strong-handed long term holders who can see beyond their own petty self-interest. I won't act like a hypocrit and admit I'm a little bit of both myself, I do envy those who are able to extract good profits from the ups and downs. But I'm also an idealist and a dreamer at heart, who wants bitcoin to succeed and see a better world come from it. Smiley

I'm an idealist. But I'm smart enough to understand that my own impact on Bitcoin by holding it is miniscule (though I know that by convincing other people I can make a bit of a difference). Thus the reason I'm holding no matter what is because of my own petty self-interest. I don't want to run the risk of day(and night)-trading, also I have no clue how to do it successfully anyhow. I know that $50k will just be the beginning, so why would I ever sell?
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May 14, 2013, 03:53:03 PM
 #16

I look at bitcoin as an appreciating asset to be used as collateral for loans in USD. There's no need to ever sell it.
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May 14, 2013, 04:12:16 PM
 #17

My hand is weak but my profits are strong.

How strong? I tell you what are strong profits: holding dozens of thousands of Bitcoins bought under $0.1

I'm sure if you had coins bought at $0.1 at the end of 2010 you would have sold during the 2011 bubble, at $20ish, to secure your "strong profits".

The ones who voted "i will sell my bitcoins at $200-$499" are just short sighted pussies.

The ones who voted >$1,000 will be big time loosers. They will be in a world of pain when we will hit 5 digits.

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May 14, 2013, 04:14:04 PM
 #18

My hand is weak but my profits are strong.

Well we'll see who trumps who in the end. The weak-handed short term profit seekers, or the strong-handed long term holders who can see beyond their own petty self-interest. I won't act like a hypocrit and admit I'm a little bit of both myself, I do envy those who are able to extract good profits from the ups and downs. But I'm also an idealist and a dreamer at heart, who wants bitcoin to succeed and see a better world come from it. Smiley

Sorry, but we have already seen who is winning big time: the long term holders.

All the ones that cashed out for good (a couple early adopters that cashed +BTC100,000 in 2011, etc.) have made a big mistake in terms of "fiat profits". And this is not an opinion, this is a fact.

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May 14, 2013, 04:21:56 PM
 #19

My hand is weak but my profits are strong.

Well we'll see who trumps who in the end. The weak-handed short term profit seekers, or the strong-handed long term holders who can see beyond their own petty self-interest. I won't act like a hypocrit and admit I'm a little bit of both myself, I do envy those who are able to extract good profits from the ups and downs. But I'm also an idealist and a dreamer at heart, who wants bitcoin to succeed and see a better world come from it. Smiley

Sorry, but we have already seen who is winning big time: the long term holders.

All the ones that cashed out for good (a couple early adopters that cashed +BTC100,000 in 2011, etc.) have made a big mistake in terms of "fiat profits". And this is not an opinion, this is a fact.

This. I'm sure some traders might be able to make a profit for some time, but they won't be able to keep doing it forever. The smart thing for the lucky few traders to do would be cash-out of fiat and hold Bitcoin forever.
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May 14, 2013, 04:24:05 PM
 #20

If i can buy stuff(houses, food, gas, etc etc) with Bitcoin i will never sell, i will even buy more Bitcoins then.
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May 14, 2013, 04:24:52 PM
 #21

Somewhere in the $800 range I can sell all my BTC to wipe out my fiat debt... Cheesy
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May 14, 2013, 04:32:46 PM
 #22

Somewhere in the $800 range I can sell all my BTC to wipe out my fiat debt... Cheesy

And you will be debt free - but you will have missed the opportunity of your life.

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May 14, 2013, 04:37:03 PM
 #23

I don't care.  I've been a slave to fiat debt my entire 20's, and I would like to be out of it before I turn 30 in a few months.
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May 14, 2013, 04:55:54 PM
 #24

I don't care.  I've been a slave to fiat debt my entire 20's, and I would like to be out of it before I turn 30 in a few months.

+1 I can tell you being debt free is an awesome feeling!

Yes sometimes it is better technically to take out loans (cheap money)... but not having payments or debt is great too.

People don't realize that if you have debt/payments can be better on paper but sucks donkey balls if you get laid off and have to continue to pay with even more restricted income.

We bought a car a few years back and the dealer couldn't understand why we put 30% down on a 1% interest loan.  I had to practically bitch slap the finance ho when she kept pushing her advice, finally had to tell her, we didn't need her advice and to STFU...

She just couldn't understand we had a payment level we wanted to reach, so if either one of us looses our jobs, we can still live on the others income.  Not only that but we like to have spending money and not worry if we can "pay" our bills each month... we just pay them AND can go do pretty much anything we want within reason of course.

It amazes me how little common sense people have these days... thus the property market bubble...  "omg I lost my job and 90% of my income goes to monthly payment debt what am I going to do?"  Answer... default on some bills and have shitty credit for 7 years and hopefully learn a lesson dipshit.

Not worrying about money each month is completely worth it.  Anyone can do it, you just have to be realistic and figure out what is really important to you.  Me I don't give a shit about clothes so my budget each year is about $600.  I shop at JCPennies, marchalls, tjmax... make fun all you want bout my style but I don't ever have to say... money is really tight can't go out for drinks and have fun with you sorry.
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May 14, 2013, 04:59:07 PM
 #25

Somewhere in the $800 range I can sell all my BTC to wipe out my fiat debt... Cheesy
When the USD inflation starts going into double digits you will kick yourself for getting rid of your loan.
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May 14, 2013, 05:35:54 PM
 #26

I have a strong pimp hand.
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May 14, 2013, 06:06:10 PM
 #27

Strong hands (going all in forever) = shit risk management. You don't get married to an asset, that's how you become a bagholder in case of failure.

In a bear market, the strong hands are those who hold the Bernanke Bux.
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May 14, 2013, 06:08:56 PM
 #28

Strong hands (going all in forever) = shit risk management. You don't get married to an asset, that's how you become a bagholder in case of failure.

In a bear market, the strong hands are those who hold the Bernanke Bux.

Goddammit, where were you in 2011 when I was being dumb?
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May 14, 2013, 06:26:49 PM
 #29

You don't get married to an asset,
Getting married to an asset is like putting all your eggs into one basket, true if that if something goes wrong they will all break.

But right now there aren't any good assets out there for most people to hold. However, Bitcoin shows great promise.

In my mind holding fiat is high risk - you never know when it is going to collapse.

You could get some cheap land that you can live off if it all goes to shits, that way you have one egg out of the basket.

But holding fiat? Why would you want to hold an asset that soon will be pretty much worthless?
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May 14, 2013, 06:36:04 PM
 #30

I sold every Bitcoin I owned for considerably more than they're selling for right now.

I guess that makes me really 'weak' right ?
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May 14, 2013, 06:36:58 PM
 #31

I've been a long-term permabull from the beginning in Feb 2011 until the price began its parabolic phase in March or so. It is more difficult now with the risks (altcoins, blocksize scaling) Bitcoin faces and the already relatively high position it is at with regard to price and awareness.

On the other hand, we have a nice feedback loop going that may end up producing something of value that wasn't possible before, like Silk Road. If we get something like that that would make a difference at current prices, it would be much easier for me to regain a bullish bias. Until then, I'm going to continue relying solely on TA to manage my risks.

There is no weak hands or strong hands for me. This terminology has been abused by "pigs" and produced hilarious echo chambers like this right before the crash: http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5165a9a0ecad045b0d000000-600-249/djlasir.jpg There are only good entry and exit points, and different risk/reward levels associated.

It's true that if you are comfortable with losing the entire wealth you have stored in Bitcoin, it is a good strategy to lock it away for years and let it go to 0 or 10000. However, for the people who have been here a longer time, Bitcoin probably represents almost all of their net worth, and so, wealth preservation becomes more important than before.

For people who don't know anything about trading and who have or plan to have most of their net worth in Bitcoin, I would advocate dollar cost averaging in over months and setting up some sort of profit taking plan, like taking a certain percentage out if it goes up a certain percentage.

But holding fiat? Why would you want to hold an asset that soon will be pretty much worthless?
Because in a bear market, you can buy more of your favorite assets with the same amount of national currency. People who knew that in the Bitcoin market did well in 2011. You can also buy land or gold or real estate or stocks or whatever you like whenever you like.
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May 14, 2013, 06:37:21 PM
 #32

Would never sell, but use to buy commodities.

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May 14, 2013, 06:38:08 PM
 #33

I sold every Bitcoin I owned for considerably more than they're selling for right now.

I guess that makes me really 'weak' right ?

Hope you are smart enough to buy back more coins you had when you sold them.

There's a lesson to be learned from those who "cashed out" after the 2011 bubble collapse.

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May 14, 2013, 06:43:02 PM
 #34

There's a lesson to be learned from those who "cashed out" after the 2011 bubble collapse.

Yes, they were able to buy coins cheaper.  Sad
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May 14, 2013, 06:45:48 PM
 #35

Strong hands (going all in forever) = shit risk management. You don't get married to an asset, that's how you become a bagholder in case of failure.

In a bear market, the strong hands are those who hold the Bernanke Bux.

Very true.
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May 14, 2013, 07:03:28 PM
 #36

There's a lesson to be learned from those who "cashed out" after the 2011 bubble collapse.

Yes, they were able to buy coins cheaper.  Sad

Well, they did not "cash out" then - they just plaid the market to buy cheaper bitcoins, and that's great... If they bought more bitcoins they had when they sold, otherwise their are losing big time.

The ones really f**ked are the ones who "cashed out" for good

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May 14, 2013, 07:33:56 PM
 #37

Don't end up with nothing, like the poor Rockbiter:



- They look like big, good, strong hands, don't they?



- I always thought that’s what they were. My little friends. The Bitcoin, the Litecoin, even the stupid Feathercoin. I couldn’t hold on to them. The crappy fiat pulled them right out of my hands. I failed.


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xavier
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May 14, 2013, 08:18:53 PM
 #38

Please reword the original post.

Start with 'what point will you sell at' ? $0-10, $10-20, $20-40, $40-60, $60-80, $80-110

I think i might do this myself actually.
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May 14, 2013, 08:21:11 PM
 #39

my hand is pretty strong so is my arm after beating off several times a day. Shocked
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May 14, 2013, 09:07:12 PM
 #40

Please reword the original post.

Start with 'what point will you sell at' ? $0-10, $10-20, $20-40, $40-60, $60-80, $80-110

I think i might do this myself actually.

I aimed this poll towards long term holders specifically, I was curious to know at what price they would actually consider selling their bitcoins. I didn't expect them to sell below $200. But I added a <$200 option just now if there are any, so have fun. Wink

Bitcoin = Gold on steroids
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May 14, 2013, 09:31:50 PM
 #41

Like Stalin's iron fist.

"To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy." -Sun Tzu
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May 14, 2013, 09:32:39 PM
 #42

My left or right hand?
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May 14, 2013, 09:57:11 PM
 #43

I sold every Bitcoin I owned for considerably more than they're selling for right now.

I guess that makes me really 'weak' right ?

Hope you are smart enough to buy back more coins you had when you sold them.

There's a lesson to be learned from those who "cashed out" after the 2011 bubble collapse.

Yes, I'll consider this over the coming days and weeks. For now my money sits on MtGox in USD waiting for the right price.
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May 14, 2013, 11:16:44 PM
 #44

There is no weak hands or strong hands for me. This terminology has been abused by "pigs" and produced hilarious echo chambers like this right before the crash: http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5165a9a0ecad045b0d000000-600-249/djlasir.jpg There are only good entry and exit points, and different risk/reward levels associated.

The term has been abused? For sure. The only problem is that the risk/reward levels and the good entry and exit points are hard if not impossible to calculate. One thing you can calculate, however, is that it makes rational sense for mass adoption of Bitcoin and hence putting some money in and holding is not a bad strategy.

It's true that if you are comfortable with losing the entire wealth you have stored in Bitcoin, it is a good strategy to lock it away for years and let it go to 0 or 10000. However, for the people who have been here a longer time, Bitcoin probably represents almost all of their net worth, and so, wealth preservation becomes more important than before.

Easy come, easy go, right? For the rest of the people who got in a little later, most of them probably haven't invested their entire net worth into Bitcoin.

For people who don't know anything about trading and who have or plan to have most of their net worth in Bitcoin, I would advocate dollar cost averaging in over months and setting up some sort of profit taking plan, like taking a certain percentage out if it goes up a certain percentage.

Not a bad plan to average in over months, if not years. The profit taking plan part is an idea worth investigating. Let's say you bought BTC100 at $10, then you could sell 10 % now at $100 to recoup your investment and still keep the remaining BTC90. But what are you going to do with $1000 anyway? Spend it on useless fun stuff you forget about in a few months? Put it in a savings account and get 0% interest while its value is being inflated away and the bank where your account is rakes in profit from it by gambling on a stock and derivatives market ballooned by QE? Besides Cashing in to fiat would bring with it a tax liability would it not?

But holding fiat? Why would you want to hold an asset that soon will be pretty much worthless?
Because in a bear market, you can buy more of your favorite assets with the same amount of national currency. People who knew that in the Bitcoin market did well in 2011. You can also buy land or gold or real estate or stocks or whatever you like whenever you like.

Gold, stocks and real estate are risky. Buying land is only useful if you know how to and you are willing to farm it yourself. Of course you could set yourself up with someone renting the land for a part of their harvest. But I think could be borderline immoral, and history has shown that isn't the way to efficiency.
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May 14, 2013, 11:23:13 PM
 #45

We only disagree on one point then:

Gold, stocks and real estate are risky. Buying land is only useful if you know how to and you are willing to farm it yourself. Of course you could set yourself up with someone renting the land for a part of their harvest. But I think could be borderline immoral, and history has shown that isn't the way to efficiency.
Gold, maybe blue chips stocks and Real Estate are obviously far less risky than Bitcoin. There is only one Gold, and has only ever been, and it's always been a store of value. Bitcoin however has competitors, is not totally proven etc., it's obviously a high risk high return investment.

For this reason I believe you should only either invest a small part of your net worth for the longer term, OR if you invest a large part, you be prepared to watch it like a hawk.
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May 15, 2013, 01:42:52 AM
 #46

Don't end up with nothing, like the poor Rockbiter:



- They look like big, good, strong hands, don't they?



- I always thought that’s what they were. My little friends. The Bitcoin, the Litecoin, even the stupid Feathercoin. I couldn’t hold on to them. The crappy fiat pulled them right out of my hands. I failed.
The Nothing is Coming!



Quick, we need to give the princess a new name!



Currently the market is sinking, hard.  Artax!!




Personally, I would take the racing snail on the way back up in this market.

Crypt_Current
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May 15, 2013, 01:58:55 AM
 #47

Right one or left one? Huh

10% off at CampBX for LIFE:  https://campbx.com/main.php?r=C9a5izBQ5vq  ----  Authorized BitVoucher MEGA reseller (& BTC donations appreciated):  https://bitvoucher.co/affl/1HkvK8o8WWDpCTSQGnek7DH9gT1LWeV5s3/
LTC:  LRL6vb6XBRrEEifB73DiEiYZ9vbRy99H41  NMC:  NGb2spdTGpWj8THCPyCainaXenwDhAW1ZT
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May 15, 2013, 02:03:39 AM
 #48

you should be selling everyday not waiting for an imaginary number to arrive... just my 0.002BTC

12wqXQuExLnWoWWQy7j35hzBEW91bUz1YS
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May 15, 2013, 02:05:52 AM
 #49

Me I don't give a shit about clothes so my budget each year is about $600.  I shop at JCPennies, marchalls, tjmax... make fun all you want bout my style but I don't ever have to say... money is really tight can't go out for drinks and have fun with you sorry.

Wow, you are rich by comparison  Cheesy
$600 / year is an ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS amount of money to spend on clothing, to me ...
But, excellent post; I enjoyed reading some pearls of wisdom there.  I had to learn the debt game the hard way through bankruptcy myself.

10% off at CampBX for LIFE:  https://campbx.com/main.php?r=C9a5izBQ5vq  ----  Authorized BitVoucher MEGA reseller (& BTC donations appreciated):  https://bitvoucher.co/affl/1HkvK8o8WWDpCTSQGnek7DH9gT1LWeV5s3/
LTC:  LRL6vb6XBRrEEifB73DiEiYZ9vbRy99H41  NMC:  NGb2spdTGpWj8THCPyCainaXenwDhAW1ZT
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May 15, 2013, 02:33:10 AM
 #50

I bought my Bitcoins for business ventures and to use not to speculate/profit on directly.

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May 15, 2013, 10:24:11 AM
 #51

Not a bad plan to average in over months, if not years. The profit taking plan part is an idea worth investigating. Let's say you bought BTC100 at $10, then you could sell 10 % now at $100 to recoup your investment and still keep the remaining BTC90. But what are you going to do with $1000 anyway? Spend it on useless fun stuff you forget about in a few months? Put it in a savings account and get 0% interest while its value is being inflated away and the bank where your account is rakes in profit from it by gambling on a stock and derivatives market ballooned by QE? Besides Cashing in to fiat would bring with it a tax liability would it not?

This. Very well put. I also think the key point in here is what Blitz wrote a little earlier:

It's true that if you are comfortable with losing the entire wealth you have stored in Bitcoin, it is a good strategy to lock it away for years and let it go to 0 or 10000.

I would add that investing more than you can afford to lose in "beta software" is plain and simply foolish.

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May 15, 2013, 11:51:03 AM
 #52

the amount that is needed to not have to work 1 day anymore the rest of my life..  

that will be my exit point..  

bitfinex discount code : FvwrZ545k2
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May 15, 2013, 11:51:05 AM
 #53

Me I don't give a shit about clothes so my budget each year is about $600.  I shop at JCPennies, marchalls, tjmax... make fun all you want bout my style but I don't ever have to say... money is really tight can't go out for drinks and have fun with you sorry.

Wow, you are rich by comparison  Cheesy
$600 / year is an ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS amount of money to spend on clothing, to me ...
But, excellent post; I enjoyed reading some pearls of wisdom there.  I had to learn the debt game the hard way through bankruptcy myself.

Me too... Did the typical bad-credit thing during the 18-25 years, I call them my invincible idiot years.  What amazes me about credit is I messed mine up with only about 2k in debt... yet I constantly see/hear people with 30k in CC debt alone and they still can buy a car, home after foreclosure etc.  Me I had to pay 16% on my car loan during my bad credit days...   How does that make sense, I always thought credit score should take amount into consideration.

$600 a year... yeah it looks higher when on paper, I usually buy clothes 1-2 times a year, spent about $300 a go.  Cudos for being out-raged by clothing purchases!  Me I have more fun buying computers/beer and fun stuff, clothes aren't fun for me...
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May 15, 2013, 04:30:38 PM
 #54

Me I don't give a shit about clothes so my budget each year is about $600.  I shop at JCPennies, marchalls, tjmax... make fun all you want bout my style but I don't ever have to say... money is really tight can't go out for drinks and have fun with you sorry.

Wow, you are rich by comparison  Cheesy
$600 / year is an ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS amount of money to spend on clothing, to me ...
But, excellent post; I enjoyed reading some pearls of wisdom there.  I had to learn the debt game the hard way through bankruptcy myself.

Me too... Did the typical bad-credit thing during the 18-25 years, I call them my invincible idiot years.  What amazes me about credit is I messed mine up with only about 2k in debt... yet I constantly see/hear people with 30k in CC debt alone and they still can buy a car, home after foreclosure etc.  Me I had to pay 16% on my car loan during my bad credit days...   How does that make sense, I always thought credit score should take amount into consideration.

$600 a year... yeah it looks higher when on paper, I usually buy clothes 1-2 times a year, spent about $300 a go.  Cudos for being out-raged by clothing purchases!  Me I have more fun buying computers/beer and fun stuff, clothes aren't fun for me...

The last few years I've spent about $200/year on clothes and I think it's way too much. I have tons of clothes so this year I'm hoping to spend nil, hopefully the next year too, and the next after that. Maybe I'll spend a tiny bit on thread so I can repair them if they break.
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May 15, 2013, 04:56:21 PM
 #55

We only disagree on one point then:
Gold, stocks and real estate are risky. Buying land is only useful if you know how to and you are willing to farm it yourself. Of course you could set yourself up with someone renting the land for a part of their harvest. But I think could be borderline immoral, and history has shown that isn't the way to efficiency.
Gold, maybe blue chips stocks and Real Estate are obviously far less risky than Bitcoin. There is only one Gold, and has only ever been, and it's always been a store of value. Bitcoin however has competitors, is not totally proven etc., it's obviously a high risk high return investment.

For this reason I believe you should only either invest a small part of your net worth for the longer term, OR if you invest a large part, you be prepared to watch it like a hawk.

1. I'm not disputing the immense first mover advantage of gold. I only think it's risky because there is so much of it in asteroids and because it can be synthesized. Mining gold on asteroids probably won't happen until late this decade or early next, but when do you think investors will catch on and move out?

2. Blue chip stocks are interesting. If you chose the right company you could be dealing with less risk. That being said, it's hard to find the right company...even Microsoft is mentioned in the "blue chip" article on Wikipedia even though their main business is selling an inferior product that is easily copied without giving Microsoft a dime. You could look to big and old companies like IBM and GE that have survived and reinvented themselves time and time again, but is past performance reallya measure for future performance? Besides, IBM should have been set on trial for collusion with the enemy during WW2. Though it shows adaptability for a company to do so, I still wouldn't want to put my money with a company that actively participated in making the holocaust possible - but hey, that's just me. Do you have any tips for "sure bet" companies?

3. Real estate. Are you kidding me? The volatility of the real estate market has been crazy, almost in every single country in the world. What's to stop any city from going down the same road as Detroit? What will your real estate be worth then?

4. I'm not denying that one should spread around one's investments. However I answered this thread with the assumption that most people hadn't invested their entire net worth in Bitcoin. And as I said above, if you were early in the game, and suddenly ended up with tons of BTC then easy come, easy go - of course you can afford to lose something you didn't have to begin with.

5. Watching Bitcoin like a hawk is a good idea. Is there a way to set up something like an rss-feed or something that will alert you to certain swings in the price that you specify beforehand and make you're mobile phone go apeshit to alert you?

I would add that investing more than you can afford to lose in "beta software" is plain and simply foolish.

Then where would you invest it? Remember that simply keeping your cash in a bank account is investing in fiat, the safety of your bank and taking on the huge systemic risk of the broken financial system.
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May 15, 2013, 04:57:21 PM
 #56


The last few years I've spent about $200/year on clothes and I think it's way too much. I have tons of clothes so this year I'm hoping to spend nil, hopefully the next year too, and the next after that. Maybe I'll spend a tiny bit on thread so I can repair them if they break.

Maybe the trick is to have lots of clothes... I generally don't, have about a weeks worth, when they aren't presentable at work, donate them and get more.

Maybe I am getting clothes that are too cheap and falling apart too quick?

Either-way my clothing expenses are less then my coffee expenses... that is good enough for me.

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May 15, 2013, 04:58:33 PM
 #57

Me I don't give a shit about clothes so my budget each year is about $600.  I shop at JCPennies, marchalls, tjmax... make fun all you want bout my style but I don't ever have to say... money is really tight can't go out for drinks and have fun with you sorry.

Wow, you are rich by comparison  Cheesy
$600 / year is an ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS amount of money to spend on clothing, to me ...
But, excellent post; I enjoyed reading some pearls of wisdom there.  I had to learn the debt game the hard way through bankruptcy myself.

Me too... Did the typical bad-credit thing during the 18-25 years, I call them my invincible idiot years.  What amazes me about credit is I messed mine up with only about 2k in debt... yet I constantly see/hear people with 30k in CC debt alone and they still can buy a car, home after foreclosure etc.  Me I had to pay 16% on my car loan during my bad credit days...   How does that make sense, I always thought credit score should take amount into consideration.

$600 a year... yeah it looks higher when on paper, I usually buy clothes 1-2 times a year, spent about $300 a go.  Cudos for being out-raged by clothing purchases!  Me I have more fun buying computers/beer and fun stuff, clothes aren't fun for me...

The last few years I've spent about $200/year on clothes and I think it's way too much. I have tons of clothes so this year I'm hoping to spend nil, hopefully the next year too, and the next after that. Maybe I'll spend a tiny bit on thread so I can repair them if they break.


If you ladies want to start comparing how much you spent on shoes and purses, please take it offline.


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May 15, 2013, 05:15:35 PM
 #58

Me I don't give a shit about clothes so my budget each year is about $600.  I shop at JCPennies, marchalls, tjmax... make fun all you want bout my style but I don't ever have to say... money is really tight can't go out for drinks and have fun with you sorry.

Wow, you are rich by comparison  Cheesy
$600 / year is an ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS amount of money to spend on clothing, to me ...
But, excellent post; I enjoyed reading some pearls of wisdom there.  I had to learn the debt game the hard way through bankruptcy myself.

Me too... Did the typical bad-credit thing during the 18-25 years, I call them my invincible idiot years.  What amazes me about credit is I messed mine up with only about 2k in debt... yet I constantly see/hear people with 30k in CC debt alone and they still can buy a car, home after foreclosure etc.  Me I had to pay 16% on my car loan during my bad credit days...   How does that make sense, I always thought credit score should take amount into consideration.

$600 a year... yeah it looks higher when on paper, I usually buy clothes 1-2 times a year, spent about $300 a go.  Cudos for being out-raged by clothing purchases!  Me I have more fun buying computers/beer and fun stuff, clothes aren't fun for me...


The last few years I've spent about $200/year on clothes and I think it's way too much. I have tons of clothes so this year I'm hoping to spend nil, hopefully the next year too, and the next after that. Maybe I'll spend a tiny bit on thread so I can repair them if they break.


If you ladies want to start comparing how much you spent on shoes and purses, please take it offline.




No I want to know what kind of pumps you prefer to buy?  I only buy guche just as I am sure you only buy douchebag.
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May 15, 2013, 05:17:56 PM
 #59

http://www.extravaganzi.com/2000-momotaro-jeans-without-compromise/

Peasants.

   
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Bitcoiner_cph
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May 15, 2013, 05:21:16 PM
 #60

It may be that we don't sell them but use them to buy cars, houses, yachts or whatever.

Better to rent things with bitcoins I think - no reason to own anything other than bitcoins.


+1

very smart, adapted this idea in less then a sec.

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May 15, 2013, 05:25:31 PM
 #61

I look at bitcoin as an appreciating asset to be used as collateral for loans in USD. There's no need to ever sell it.

I see this could be done in theory, but how is that possible in practice? I mean I don't think the banks will accept your bitcoins as an security for a loan, would they?

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May 15, 2013, 05:40:13 PM
 #62

It'll all depend, really.  After I get about $200 worth, I plan on paying the internet bill.  I live with my mom, and she's always saying that if I don't want to hear her complain about me being on the internet all day that I should just pay the bill.

The salvation of man lies not in faiths placed in gods, but in our quest to become gods ourselves.
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May 15, 2013, 06:41:13 PM
 #63

Me I don't give a shit about clothes so my budget each year is about $600.  I shop at JCPennies, marchalls, tjmax... make fun all you want bout my style but I don't ever have to say... money is really tight can't go out for drinks and have fun with you sorry.

Wow, you are rich by comparison  Cheesy
$600 / year is an ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS amount of money to spend on clothing, to me ...
But, excellent post; I enjoyed reading some pearls of wisdom there.  I had to learn the debt game the hard way through bankruptcy myself.

Me too... Did the typical bad-credit thing during the 18-25 years, I call them my invincible idiot years.  What amazes me about credit is I messed mine up with only about 2k in debt... yet I constantly see/hear people with 30k in CC debt alone and they still can buy a car, home after foreclosure etc.  Me I had to pay 16% on my car loan during my bad credit days...   How does that make sense, I always thought credit score should take amount into consideration.

$600 a year... yeah it looks higher when on paper, I usually buy clothes 1-2 times a year, spent about $300 a go.  Cudos for being out-raged by clothing purchases!  Me I have more fun buying computers/beer and fun stuff, clothes aren't fun for me...

The last few years I've spent about $200/year on clothes and I think it's way too much. I have tons of clothes so this year I'm hoping to spend nil, hopefully the next year too, and the next after that. Maybe I'll spend a tiny bit on thread so I can repair them if they break.


If you ladies want to start comparing how much you spent on shoes and purses, please take it offline.

HAHAHAHAHA! You make me crack up exahash.

You really think a discussion about saving money isn't relevant when talking about strength of hands and a p2p currency that encourages saving? If you're going to continue with ad hominem and irrelevancies, please do it to your mom instead of to this forum!
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June 05, 2013, 07:48:51 AM
 #64

This thread is making me wish I bought a ton of bitcoins a couple years ago when they were dirt cheap.  Alas, I'm late to the party, but hopefully not too late to make a decent profit, we'll see.

BTC: 13kJEpqhkW5MnQhWLvum7N5v8LbTAhzeWj
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June 05, 2013, 08:19:55 AM
 #65

This thread is making me wish I bought a ton of bitcoins a couple years ago when they were dirt cheap.  Alas, I'm late to the party, but hopefully not too late to make a decent profit, we'll see.

Trust me, everyone always feels that way. And trust me some more, you aren't too late.

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June 05, 2013, 08:33:44 AM
 #66

The option containing dirty fiat, obviously  Roll Eyes
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June 05, 2013, 10:56:45 AM
 #67

This thread is making me wish I bought a ton of bitcoins a couple years ago when they were dirt cheap.  Alas, I'm late to the party, but hopefully not too late to make a decent profit, we'll see.

Trust me, everyone always feels that way. And trust me some more, you aren't too late.

THIS.

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June 05, 2013, 12:10:30 PM
 #68

I know, I'm late to the party, but...

the premise of the entire question is somewhat meaningless, at least in the upper range of the answers (5000 USD+). If the USD/btc price reaches that level, there will be no reason anymore to "cash out", btc will factually have attained full adoption, at least in whatever niche it settled in (store of wealth in crisis countries, online payments, black market payment, who knows).

So for any value per btc that corresponds to a market cap in the 3 digit/high 2 digit billion range, the question about "strong hands"/"cashing out" doesn't mean the same it means for the lower values.

Not sure which Bitcoin wallet to use? Take a look at Electrum.
Electrum is an open-source lightweight client: user friendly, fast, and guaranteed to keep your coins safe.
Get the executables (Windows, OSX, Linux, Android), source code and documentation on the Electrum homepage.
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June 05, 2013, 12:25:24 PM
 #69

1. I'm not disputing the immense first mover advantage of gold. I only think it's risky because there is so much of it in asteroids and because it can be synthesized. Mining gold on asteroids probably won't happen until late this decade or early next, but when do you think investors will catch on and move out?


Mining from around black smokers will happen long before asteroid mining.
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/es767spring2006/

BitCoin is NOT a pyramid - it's a pagoda.
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June 05, 2013, 09:23:28 PM
 #70

This thread is making me wish I bought a ton of bitcoins a couple years ago when they were dirt cheap.  Alas, I'm late to the party, but hopefully not too late to make a decent profit, we'll see.

Trust me, everyone always feels that way. And trust me some more, you aren't too late.

THIS.

Oh, I agree.  I'm still planning on buying at least several, just probably not as many as if I had got in the game earlier, so to speak.  But I reserve the right to buy more later on.

BTC: 13kJEpqhkW5MnQhWLvum7N5v8LbTAhzeWj
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