Bitcoin split to Bitcoin Cash! (BCH) Yep! You probably owe IRS a lot of $$$.

[Searing]

Well this is interesting..I have 100 btc ...bitcoin cash came out.....so I made like say 70,000 usd when
(BCH)guessing at $700 usd when BCH, hit the world. Thus according to my CPA and the link below, if you are a US Citizen you need to pay taxes on this supposedly) In that IF you held bitcoin more than 1 year and 1 day at 20% capital gains. If less than, 1 yr and 1 day its at 40% capital gains.

So again, say BTH hit the world at 700 bucks ..that is 70,000 usd and I'd owe the IRS on this pump of money
out of thin air 14,000 usd at 20% capital gains...even if within the week it drops to $12.

link

https://makebitcoingreatagain.wordpress.com/2017/08/02/bitcoin-cash-and-taxes/


MY strategy is to 'ignore' this....in that I HAVE NOT MADE A WALLET YET and as far as income
goes for mining...if it has not hit my (not made yet) bitcoin cash (BCH) address and wallet...that don't exist.


Otherwise, stuff like byteball (based on airdrop of btc address) and say bitcore...or other air drop'd
coins would simply...add value to my account without my knowledge...and then dump after the pump.
With you 'unknowingly' holding the bag...till the nice IRS man told you such

AGAIN THIS IS EVEN IF IT GOES TO NOTHING IN THE FUTURE...STILL, OWE ON THE INITIAL PUMP.
..again this is w/o any action on your part or you making a wallet. Nor any control on alt coins or
further bitcoin forks ...making money on a nice pump and dump racket, at your expense.

Myself, I am going with the idea, that if BCH has not hit my Bitcoin Classic (BCH) address wallet..yet (virgin)
..(does not exist) ...it is NOT income yet (like
mining...taxed when it hits your wallet and btc address, not the instant is it mined) because I shall claim 'cluelessness' of BCH existence until say in the future it is pointed out by the nice IRS man that I DO have free money. I will then 'gush' thank you and pay the taxes
if it keeps value, or I grovel, bit time,  and pay the above taxes, even when or if it dumps to 12 bucks.

This to me seems the ONLY sensible solution, otherwise....EVERYONE with any significant BTC will go to jail I guess..especially if the coin tanks to 2 bucks. I can't see a lot of people mentioning this to their CPA etc.

Can you imagine Satoshi coming out to the world and as soon as he claims from say one of his 100,000 btc wallets,
a previous never used, BTC wallet (if he is a USA citizen) the IRS coming along and saying, hey Satoshi, you also owe on a further 14 million
dollars of air drop'd BCH Bitcoin Cash out of the 700,000 BCH windfall...we will take a 14 million dollar check

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. I agree it is unlikely and unworkable, but the IRS is suing coinbase for ALL its customer base records, 
so that does not mean they will not try to be this stupid about this...this would be a great way to keep your job at IRS ..stupid or
not..all that shiny money to the IRS coffers!

Thoughts?

(Again all this is speculative and unlikely to amount to anything...but does get one's attention)

Thanks for reading this unlikely horror story and rant.

Take the poll, please.

[1714126274]

1714126274

[1714126274]

1714126274

[1714126274]

1714126274

[Searing]

I would look for another CPA.

Until you convert your Bitcoin Cash to Fiat, you owe the IRS nothing.

Since you were given the Bitcoin Cash for Free, you have a Zero Cost Basis.

You will have to report the entire amount as income of what it sells at for fiat, but only when you cash out and only the amount that flowed from the Bitcoin Cash.

Split your conversion of Bitcoin Cash to Fiat over a few years to keep your tax rate lower.
But keep it's accounting totally separate from your other coins, so it does not get confusing.


╥Aztek

If that was true....mining would also not be taxed. The catch is you are getting FREE money out of thin air. The IRS
does NOT take kindly to that, only taxed when it hits your wallet address.

 Also the article above, I quote also makes my point, so it is NOT just me)

I suppose it could be taxed as a 'gift' that would be worse.

I hope you are correct. Just saying this is another wrinkle in taxes with crypto that will be looked at by IRS.

But again, I hope you are right and the IRS does look at this like a 'stock split' ..you don't touch it ..you are OK and
no taxes owed...till you spend it ...like purchased crypto.

[kotbi]

I would hodl your btc and bcc and don't convert to fiat usd dollars. So there is no capital gain untill you sell it. Let's hodl it

[Searing]

I would hodl your btc and bcc and don't convert to fiat usd dollars. So there is no capital gain untill you sell it. Let's hodl it

Again, hope you all are correct. BUT it is free $$$....but I take everyone's point...

LIKELY, you would not be in any trouble till you wanted to spend it.

But then again, I never expected the IRS in 2013 to call (for tax purposes) bitcoin and crypto LAND either.

[Searing]

I would look for another CPA.

Until you convert your Bitcoin Cash to Fiat, you owe the IRS nothing.

Since you were given the Bitcoin Cash for Free, you have a Zero Cost Basis.

You will have to report the entire amount as income of what it sells at for fiat, but only when you cash out and only the amount that flowed from the Bitcoin Cash.

Split your conversion of Bitcoin Cash to Fiat over a few years to keep your tax rate lower.
But keep it's accounting totally separate from your other coins, so it does not get confusing.


╥Aztek

If that was true....mining would also not be taxed. The catch is you are getting FREE money out of thin air. The IRS
does NOT take kindly to that. Also the article I quote also makes my point, so it is NOT just me.

I suppose it could be taxed as a 'gift' that would be worse.

I hope you are correct. Just saying this is another wrinkle in taxes with crypto that will be looked at by IRS.

But again, I hope you are right and the IRS does look at this like a 'stock split' ..you don't touch it ..you are OK and
no taxes owed.

In the US.

If you buy BTC, you are taxed using capital gains rules.

If you mine BTC, you are supposed to declare it as income and it be taxed at your normal tax rate.

Actually Taxed two different ways depending how you obtain it.

But a Miner can also write off the business expenses to help offset the tax.

╥Aztek

that's the catch...they are NOT imho just gonna let the 80,000 it was worth at the pump if it goes to say 12 bucks ...tax burden go away (the IRS I mean)

thus what is the senario if you get FREE money...I did not buy it and I did not mine it

Again the article I guote takes the position that you are under the gun on this and just have to cough up the cash...

I guess my new question is..how does the IRS treat this 'heavenly crypto gift" ..... I feel I missing a further angle on what they could do.

[pedrog]

Usually we just have to pay taxes on realized gains as it is normal income subjected to a particular tax rate, we don't have to pay taxes on 'paper gains' as they are not real, but in USA can be different, you should look for legal advice if you're worried about this.

Perhaps BCC can be considered as dividend...

[stoniestfool]

Well this is interesting..I have 100 btc ...bitcoin cash came out.....so I made like say 70,000 usd when
(BCH)guessing at $700 usd when BCH, hit the world. Thus according to my CPA and the link below, if you are a US Citizen you need to pay taxes on this supposedly) In that IF you held bitcoin more than 1 year and 1 day at 20% capital gains. If less than, 1 yr and 1 day its at 40% capital gains.

So again, say BTH hit the world at 700 bucks ..that is 70,000 usd and I'd owe the IRS on this pump of money
out of thin air 14,000 usd at 20% capital gains...even if within the week it drops to $12.

link

https://makebitcoingreatagain.wordpress.com/2017/08/02/bitcoin-cash-and-taxes/


MY strategy is to 'ignore' this....in that I HAVE NOT MADE A WALLET YET and as far as income
goes for mining...if it has not hit my (not made yet) bitcoin cash (BCH) address and wallet...that don't exist.


Otherwise, stuff like byteball (based on airdrop of btc address) and say bitcore...or other air drop'd
coins would simply...add value to my account without my knowledge...and then dump after the pump.
With you 'unknowingly' holding the bag...till the nice IRS man told you such

AGAIN THIS IS EVEN IF IT GOES TO NOTHING IN THE FUTURE...STILL, OWE ON THE INITIAL PUMP.
..again this is w/o any action on your part or you making a wallet. Nor any control on alt coins or
further bitcoin forks ...making money on a nice pump and dump racket, at your expense.

Myself, I am going with the idea, that if BCH has not hit my Bitcoin Classic (BCH) address wallet..yet (virgin)
..(does not exist) ...it is NOT income yet (like
mining...taxed when it hits your wallet and btc address, not the instant is it mined) because I shall claim 'cluelessness' of BCH existence until say in the future it is pointed out by the nice IRS man that I DO have free money. I will then 'gush' thank you and pay the taxes
if it keeps value, or I grovel, bit time,  and pay the above taxes, even when or if it dumps to 12 bucks.

This to me seems the ONLY sensible solution, otherwise....EVERYONE with any significant BTC will go to jail I guess..especially if the coin tanks to 2 bucks. I can't see a lot of people mentioning this to their CPA etc.

Can you imagine Satoshi coming out to the world and as soon as he claims from say one of his 100,000 btc wallets,
a previous never used, BTC wallet (if he is a USA citizen) the IRS coming along and saying, hey Satoshi, you also owe on a further 14 million
dollars of air drop'd BCH Bitcoin Cash out of the 700,000 BCH windfall...we will take a 14 million dollar check

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. I agree it is unlikely and unworkable, but the IRS is suing coinbase for ALL its customer base records, 
so that does not mean they will not try to be this stupid about this...this would be a great way to keep your job at IRS ..stupid or
not..all that shiny money to the IRS coffers!

Thoughts?

(Again all this is speculative and unlikely to amount to anything...but does get one's attention)

Thanks for reading this unlikely horror story and rant.

Take the poll, please.

Hope your house is less value than your cypto. As much as they spy on its citizens, I am sure they have already logged your ip. DUMBASS.

[figmentofmyass]

Well this is interesting..I have 100 btc ...bitcoin cash came out.....so I made like say 70,000 usd when
(BCH)guessing at $700 usd when BCH, hit the world. Thus according to my CPA and the link below, if you are a US Citizen you need to pay taxes on this supposedly) In that IF you held bitcoin more than 1 year and 1 day at 20% capital gains. If less than, 1 yr and 1 day its at 40% capital gains.

i don't quite get it, though. there's been no actual transaction. and you don't have a BCC-compatible wallet, so you don't even have access to the funds. you don't possess them and never did.

this CPA seems pretty dubious.

[Xenrise]

Wow you are so rich by now! You literally made something out of your bitcoin you are hodling. This is why cryptocurrency is great. And you own 100 bitcoin? Wow that is so good. The ratio for 1 bitcoin is also 1 BCH right? So if you are owning 100 bitcoin, you will get 100 BCH also. Well it is a free money so cheers for it. And there is another giveaway but I am not that much aware of it but there is. Wait for some announcement for that. And thank god there is a split! Thank you bitcoin fork.

[hilariousetc]

I would look for another CPA.

Until you convert your Bitcoin Cash to Fiat, you owe the IRS nothing.

Since you were given the Bitcoin Cash for Free, you have a Zero Cost Basis.

You will have to report the entire amount as income of what it sells at for fiat, but only when you cash out and only the amount that flowed from the Bitcoin Cash.

Split your conversion of Bitcoin Cash to Fiat over a few years to keep your tax rate lower.
But keep it's accounting totally separate from your other coins, so it does not get confusing.


╥Aztek

If that was true....mining would also not be taxed. The catch is you are getting FREE money out of thin air. The IRS
does NOT take kindly to that, only taxed when it hits your wallet address.

Miners do that as their job therefor they will pay income tax. If you make money from trading or investing then you will only pay capital gains on your profits once you cash out or this is how it works in the UK at least but I assume it's the same in the States.

[phuckit17]

so if your BTC is vaulted on Coin Base and they never support it(bch), what happens ? still have the liability and never received the Gains?

[Hoho29]

people who will get bitcoin-cash bcc those already has bitcoin in their wallet more bitcoin you have more BCC coming , newbie as me has no chance to gain a lots of $$$$

[johnsmithx]

MY strategy is to 'ignore' this....in that I HAVE NOT MADE A WALLET YET and as far as income
goes for mining...if it has not hit my (not made yet) bitcoin cash (BCH) address and wallet...that don't exist.

You apparently don't understand even the very basics about bitcoin. There is no such thing as address/wallet "exists" or "doesn't exist".

..again this is w/o any action on your part or you making a wallet. Nor any control on alt coins or
further bitcoin forks ...making money on a nice pump and dump racket, at your expense.

Three is no such thing as "making a wallet".

Myself, I am going with the idea, that if BCH has not hit my Bitcoin Classic (BCH) address wallet..yet (virgin)
..(does not exist) ...

The same nonsense.

it is NOT income yet (like
mining...taxed when it hits your wallet and btc address, not the instant is it mined)

Not surprisingly you don't understand how mining works either.

because I shall claim 'cluelessness'

So you just publicly declared your intent to commit a crime.

Can you imagine Satoshi coming out to the world and as soon as he claims from say one of his 100,000 btc wallets,

There is no such thing as "claiming" bitcoins.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. I agree it is unlikely and unworkable, but the IRS is suing coinbase for ALL its customer base records,  

Another nonsense. In reality IRS is being sued for its subpoena being abusive, harassing the taxpayers and not reflecting on the good faith, and so far the court rulings have been favorable.

this would be a great way to keep your job at IRS ..stupid or
not..all that shiny money to the IRS coffers!

Thoughts?

Yes, I have a thought. You sound like a 12-year-old.

[altcointalk14]

What is the difference between an employee who receives company stock or stock options (that does not have to pay capital gains or income tax until they sell stock) and a miner that does not sell mined btc?

[Searing]

I've been legal since day one and mining 2013. Been contacted by SEC 2x by banks. I'm legal as hell. Thus the CPA. The only way to mine and move $$$ to btc in usa

To those pm'ing me on how to hide assets. Figured I'd also reply here.

[buwaytress]

I would look for another CPA.

Until you convert your Bitcoin Cash to Fiat, you owe the IRS nothing.

Since you were given the Bitcoin Cash for Free, you have a Zero Cost Basis.

You will have to report the entire amount as income of what it sells at for fiat, but only when you cash out and only the amount that flowed from the Bitcoin Cash.
(Your other coins that you purchased, you can still report under the capital gains rules.)

Split your conversion of Bitcoin Cash to Fiat over a few years to keep your tax rate lower.
But keep it's accounting totally separate from your other coins, so it does not get confusing.


╥Aztek

Yeah I think this is the correct assessment. And I believe this is the same in the UK, and some have experience already with gambling winnings (which are not taxable anyway, but if you cash out to fiar then...). Things change when you convert to fiat, the fiat value is exposed to VAT in UK and corresponding exposure in the US.

[cyberpitstop]

I think I will extract my new BCH convert it to LTC and hold for a while. I always take a few thousand and get gift cards from gyft for places I like to eat and places I enjoying at like amazon walmart and sears etc. I figure I need to buy stuff anyway. I know that don't really address what your talking about but you could do this to whittle the total amount down some to help "ease" the tax burden.

[GreenBits]

Well this is interesting..I have 100 btc ...bitcoin cash came out.....so I made like say 70,000 usd when
(BCH)guessing at $700 usd when BCH, hit the world. Thus according to my CPA and the link below, if you are a US Citizen you need to pay taxes on this supposedly) In that IF you held bitcoin more than 1 year and 1 day at 20% capital gains. If less than, 1 yr and 1 day its at 40% capital gains...

But the gains arent realized until actual conversion to capital. As stated earlier in the thread, converting this to fiat over time, or simply not converting this to fiat at all and turning it to a usable crypto should spare you the brunt of these taxes*. Capital gains tax always punishes quick gains (why the government effectively penalizes people for trading well, I do not know)

*about this. Ive been playing with this idea for a while, as someone that gets paid in crypto for a salary. If you never convert the coin to fiat, but realize value from a transaction, are you subject to anything more than sales tax? For example, if you could purchase food with btc directly, or via a crypto debit card. since YOU never made the conversion to fiat (the merchant does) and sales tax was paid (also a merchant responsibility), it seems like a property trade of equal value, a swap if you will. i havent seen a law about penalizing swaps, but, they tend to take some interesting interpretations of tax law, if it suits their case

[pedrog]

Well this is interesting..I have 100 btc ...bitcoin cash came out.....so I made like say 70,000 usd when
(BCH)guessing at $700 usd when BCH, hit the world. Thus according to my CPA and the link below, if you are a US Citizen you need to pay taxes on this supposedly) In that IF you held bitcoin more than 1 year and 1 day at 20% capital gains. If less than, 1 yr and 1 day its at 40% capital gains...

But the gains arent realized until actual conversion to capital. As stated earlier in the thread, converting this to fiat over time, or simply not converting this to fiat at all and turning it to a usable crypto should spare you the brunt of these taxes*. Capital gains tax always punishes quick gains (why the government effectively penalizes people for trading well, I do not know)

*about this. Ive been playing with this idea for a while, as someone that gets paid in crypto for a salary. If you never convert the coin to fiat, but realize value from a transaction, are you subject to anything more than sales tax? For example, if you could purchase food with btc directly, or via a crypto debit card. since YOU never made the conversion to fiat (the merchant does) and sales tax was paid (also a merchant responsibility), it seems like a property trade of equal value, a swap if you will. i havent seen a law about penalizing swaps, but, they tend to take some interesting interpretations of tax law, if it suits their case

To be legal it has to be denominated in sovereign currency, you can pay people in bitcoin but you will pay X amount of euros in bitcoin, and that's what's in the receipt, euros, not bitcoin.

[XbladeX]

SO I see that in US IRS will have nice mind fuck what to do with that stuf ...
With IRS everything is possible but taxing paper gains is stupid.
Until you get real $ in pocked i don't belive in any taxation becouse anywane can prit price like 10000$ per coin and what ?
You will never able sell for that price but you need to pay tax from that opportunity come on...