Mt. Gox is an unlicensed money exchanger dealing in "crypto-currency."

[BitcoinAshley]

This is great news. I don't know what everyone's worried about.

In order for bitcoin to succeed, Gox has to go.

Everyone's whining "Well if something happens to Gox, price will crash!"

Sure, in the short term, twitchy fingers can cause flash price movements when things happen to Gox.

But Gox has been partially responsible for many of the major negative price events, including this one. They are truly incompetent. They STILL have a woefully inadequate trading engine. They STILL routinely experience lag and DDOS. They allow trading even when there's 20 minutes of lag time, something no "big boy" exchange would ever consider. And now their Dwolla capabilities are neutered because Karpeles fucked up when he was filling out a form.

Gox has to go.

I hope the US and Japanese authorities shut down Gox completely. The small exchanges will learn their lesson, and they (along with OTC) will rise and so will the volume vacuum. Then, and only then, can Bitcoin reach its true potential.

The alternative is Gox getting its act together. Does anyone still think that's going to happen? Lol.

Get your FUD straight, trolls. Gox dying a slow, painful, miserable death = GREAT FOR BITCOIN.

[Nemesis]

How does Gox need a US license to transfer money when they are in Japan.

How does anybody need a license to transfer money period. At this point you basically can't do business without transferring money.

They need an American license when doing business with Americans in America.

So in prosecuting MtGox for not having a money changing license, is there a legal precedent being set here that Bitcoin fits the government's definition of "money" ?

Sending USD to Dwolla and receiving USD from Dwolla is considered as money transfer.

huh?.....

Thats so wrong


Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:

FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!

[Nemesis]

Sending USD to Dwolla and receiving USD from Dwolla is considered as money transfer.

Have you thought that logic through?  If that was the standard then YOU would need a MSB registration as would every single one of Dwolla customers.

I'm no business => no money transfer business rule appyled.

Wow.... ignorance at its best.

[EuroTrash]

In order for bitcoin to succeed, Gox has to go.

Agreed.

But can we please wait some 30 more hours before that happens? Please? I got, uh, some business to do before then.

[pekv2]

FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!

Would this be considered a work around then? BTC > LTC > USD?

[Frozenlock]

FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!

Would this be considered a work around then? BTC > LTC > USD?

No.

They didn't mention BTC, but they described cryptocurrencies.

[Nemesis]

FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!

Would this be considered a work around then? BTC > LTC > USD?

Read for yourself : http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html  if LTC falls into virtual currency.

I wouldnt bet on its any difference .

[fitty]

huh?.....

Thats so wrong


Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:

FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!

And having a MSB isn't a big deal. CampBX was able to get their shit in order. What's Gox excuse?

[rm187]

FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!

Thank you. This is the first thing I thought when I read the warrant.
When Gox signed up for those accounts things were completely different.

Another thing to note, games like World of Warcraft, League, Cash Shop MMOs. Are technically money transmitters too, as they exchange USD for virtual currency. As of the FinCEN ruling they are in gox's position technically. I doubt anyone of them signed up as money transmitters.

[Nemesis]

I'm surprised by how many ppl still think FinCEN is targeting MtGox.

Now MtGox is just a first case subjected to MSB requirement.

BTC is now considered like any real CURRENCY. Meaning you cant be an exchange without MSB license.

Ever need to exchange to foreign currency? you have to go to one of licensed MSB for that.

This is a lesson for any BTC start-ups that exchange BTC for USD

[Nemesis]

huh?.....

Thats so wrong


Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:

FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!

And having a MSB isn't a big deal. CampBX was able to get their shit in order. What's Gox excuse?

There is no excuse.... Gox will pay a hefty fine. Thats all come down to it. Whats more is that Coinlab will have a good case too. $75 mill is alot bigger than the fine from DHS

[EuroTrash]

On a side note I start thinking Jed McCaleb was right with his Ripple protocol idea.
To fight censorship and seizures while still keeping decent liquidity we'd be better off with a lot of local smaller exchanges all taking part in a shared order book.

[Nemesis]

FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!

Thank you. This is the first thing I thought when I read the warrant.
When Gox signed up for those accounts things were completely different.

Another thing to note, games like World of Warcraft, League, Cash Shop MMOs. Are technically money transmitters too, as they exchange USD for virtual currency. As of the FinCEN ruling they are in gox's position technically. I doubt anyone of them signed up as money transmitters.

There is no games in US that i know exchanges USD for virtal currency. They SELL vouchers and virtual goods.

Show me one please.

Also ALL the games have TOS that prohibits ANY trading of virtual currency in game for fiat.

[MAbtc]

Kind of having a difficult time twisting this into something so positive..... no, I don't see it.

Banks, with or without agency/court actions, are the weak link. Wasn't Bitfloor's bank account shut down directly by Capital One (no court order)? And they were registered with FINCEN.

This same thing happened after UIGEA. Create a legally controversial / high-risk situation for banks (who don't like servicing MSBs in the first place, let alone those who are perceived to have the eyes of federal agencies on them), and watch what happens. Many may become fence-sitters, waiting for the situation to play out and leaving the market to shady high-margin payment processors.

In such a case, money in/money out is much slower and higher risk. People want liquidity. If prospective buyers perceive inability to easily move fiat <--> bitcoin, that's a huge threat to growth. And it's a longterm threat until the US government makes it exceedingly clear that it will not target fiat <--> bitcoin operators and their banks.

[rm187]

FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!

Thank you. This is the first thing I thought when I read the warrant.
When Gox signed up for those accounts things were completely different.

Another thing to note, games like World of Warcraft, League, Cash Shop MMOs. Are technically money transmitters too, as they exchange USD for virtual currency. As of the FinCEN ruling they are in gox's position technically. I doubt anyone of them signed up as money transmitters.

There is no games in US that i know exchanges USD for virtal currency. They SELL vouchers and virtual goods.

Show me one please.

Also ALL the games have TOS that prohibits ANY trading of virtual currency in game for fiat.

Never played Diablo 3 huh? And 3rd party buying of game currency is very big market as-well.

[Nemesis]

On a side note I start thinking Jed McCaleb was right with his Ripple protocol idea.
To fight censorship and seizures while still keeping decent liquidity we'd be better off with a lot of local smaller exchanges all taking part in a shared order book.

I doubt Ripple would DARE to touch anything subjected to MSB.

They have to be just a payment network. Selling and buying any currency, checks and money orders will be prohibited. They will come to this soon once they're working thro legal matters.

[yokosan]

This is great news. I don't know what everyone's worried about.

In order for bitcoin to succeed, Gox has to go.

Everyone's whining "Well if something happens to Gox, price will crash!"

Sure, in the short term, twitchy fingers can cause flash price movements when things happen to Gox.

But Gox has been partially responsible for many of the major negative price events, including this one. They are truly incompetent. They STILL have a woefully inadequate trading engine. They STILL routinely experience lag and DDOS. They allow trading even when there's 20 minutes of lag time, something no "big boy" exchange would ever consider. And now their Dwolla capabilities are neutered because Karpeles fucked up when he was filling out a form.

Gox has to go.

I hope the US and Japanese authorities shut down Gox completely. The small exchanges will learn their lesson, and they (along with OTC) will rise and so will the volume vacuum. Then, and only then, can Bitcoin reach its true potential.

The alternative is Gox getting its act together. Does anyone still think that's going to happen? Lol.

Get your FUD straight, trolls. Gox dying a slow, painful, miserable death = GREAT FOR BITCOIN.

Agree 100%. Right now I'm a bear but the day Gox dies I am that much closer to becoming a bull.

[Sitarow]

huh?.....

Thats so wrong


Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:

FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!

And having a MSB isn't a big deal. CampBX was able to get their shit in order. What's Gox excuse?

There is no excuse.... Gox will pay a hefty fine. Thats all come down to it. Whats more is that Coinlab will have a good case too. $75 mill is alot bigger than the fine from DHS

The reality is that MtGox user policy already exceeds FinCEN standards, so getting registered wont be a problem. Compliance would only have to be proven at this point.

[Nemesis]

huh?.....

Thats so wrong


Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:

FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!

And having a MSB isn't a big deal. CampBX was able to get their shit in order. What's Gox excuse?

There is no excuse.... Gox will pay a hefty fine. Thats all come down to it. Whats more is that Coinlab will have a good case too. $75 mill is alot bigger than the fine from DHS

The reality is that MtGox user policy already exceeds FinCEN standards, so getting registered wont be a problem. Compliance would only have to be proven at this point.

What does that have anything to do with the fine? Sure they can get license, but they will be fined for this.

[Nemesis]

This is great news. I don't know what everyone's worried about.

In order for bitcoin to succeed, Gox has to go.

Everyone's whining "Well if something happens to Gox, price will crash!"

Sure, in the short term, twitchy fingers can cause flash price movements when things happen to Gox.

But Gox has been partially responsible for many of the major negative price events, including this one. They are truly incompetent. They STILL have a woefully inadequate trading engine. They STILL routinely experience lag and DDOS. They allow trading even when there's 20 minutes of lag time, something no "big boy" exchange would ever consider. And now their Dwolla capabilities are neutered because Karpeles fucked up when he was filling out a form.

Gox has to go.

I hope the US and Japanese authorities shut down Gox completely. The small exchanges will learn their lesson, and they (along with OTC) will rise and so will the volume vacuum. Then, and only then, can Bitcoin reach its true potential.

The alternative is Gox getting its act together. Does anyone still think that's going to happen? Lol.

Get your FUD straight, trolls. Gox dying a slow, painful, miserable death = GREAT FOR BITCOIN.

Agree 100%. Right now I'm a bear but the day Gox dies I am that much closer to becoming a bull.

You can bet if MtGOX goes bankrupted. Bitcoin price will tank..... for a while and continue so until there is an exchange that can replace MtGox.

You all say just use other exchanges and ditch MtGox. The reality is NONE of other exchanges has been tested in terms of volume, availability and security. I kept seeing other small exchanges getting hacked left and right. Its always easy to say than done.