Bitcoin Utopia

[aoluain]

There seems to be a lot of people into bitcoin for the privacy and as a way to
evade being involved in the regular FIAT banking system.
Oh and also to try and expand on their "Investment".

So ive been meaning to ask these questions for a while.

Assuming we reach a Bitcoin Utopia where everyone is using Bitcoin and governments dont know
who has what how do our public services operate if no-one is paying taxes?

How do the Hospitals and Health systems get funded?

How do the education systems operate?

How do the Water, Electricity, Communications networks and other
public services like Lighting, Road Maintenance, Law and Order survive without funding?

[craZyLovE0916]

There seems to be a lot of people into bitcoin for the privacy and as a way to
evade being involved in the regular FIAT banking system.
Oh and also to try and expand on their "Investment".

So ive been meaning to ask these questions for a while.

Assuming we reach a Bitcoin Utopia where everyone is using Bitcoin and governments dont know
who has what how do our public services operate if no-one is paying taxes?

How do the Hospitals and Health systems get funded?

How do the education systems operate?

How do the Water, Electricity, Communications networks and other
public services like Lighting, Road Maintenance, Law and Order survive without funding?

Great questions. Let me try to explain.

First off, I don't think crypto will ever completely get rid of physical trading. Of course, I am not referring to fiat which is a separate thing. Gold, silver, etc. will always be the premier way of trading.

With that said, keep in mind if everyone uses Bitcoin, there will be no need to exchange it for fiat. The only reason we must do this today is because most people/business do not accept crypto as payment.

When crypto as payment becomes mainstream, people will be able to live off of Bitcoin rather than exchanging it for fiat, and this is what the fiat masters are worried about.

[Iranus]

Cash is already being used and is far, far more anonymous than Bitcoin.

When you spend cash in a shop, do you think that no one is tracking it on their databases?  Do you think that you're not paying VAT or any other taxes on it?

When people used cash, even though there was some tax evasion, people at least typically declared their main income and the biggest purchases.

[glutoken]

There seems to be a lot of people into bitcoin for the privacy and as a way to
evade being involved in the regular FIAT banking system.
Oh and also to try and expand on their "Investment".

So ive been meaning to ask these questions for a while.

Assuming we reach a Bitcoin Utopia where everyone is using Bitcoin and governments dont know
who has what how do our public services operate if no-one is paying taxes?

How do the Hospitals and Health systems get funded?

How do the education systems operate?

How do the Water, Electricity, Communications networks and other
public services like Lighting, Road Maintenance, Law and Order survive without funding?

Great questions. Let me try to explain.

First off, I don't think crypto will ever completely get rid of physical trading. Of course, I am not referring to fiat which is a separate thing. Gold, silver, etc. will always be the premier way of trading.

With that said, keep in mind if everyone uses Bitcoin, there will be no need to exchange it for fiat. The only reason we must do this today is because most people/business do not accept crypto as payment.

When crypto as payment becomes mainstream, people will be able to live off of Bitcoin rather than exchanging it for fiat, and this is what the fiat masters are worried about.

Agreed. Gold, Silver, Platinum, and other precious metals will continue to be the #1 countries, governments hold wealth or at least measure it.

Crypto is just waiting for a mass adoption.

[seyola89]

But do you think its actually possible that we will get to a time where everybody in the world will use bitcoin 
Will the total bitcoin even be able to circulate to all ??

[franky1]

not everyone in the world would use bitcoin.
bitcoin will not be the "one world currency". because if it did.. it will become no better than the corrupt fiat system of the IMF

bitcoin will have the niches that replace travellers cheques and wire transfers between countries. with the added bonus that in many shops will accept it direct (EG at the moment try to use a Euro in an american store, it will be frowned upon, but bitcoin wont)

but although bitcoin will have uses in many/all countries. it wont replace fiat. it will have a niche along side fiat.

so if anyone is spilling out stories of 10billion people in a couple decades using bitcoin for every single daily need.. please slap them with a wet fish and tell them to think more rationally.(meant as humorous wakeup, not violent wakeup)

so if anyone is spilling out stories of 7billion people within a decade  using bitcoin for every single daily need.. please slap them with a wet fish and tell them to think more rationally.

we should continue to expand bitcoins onchain growth to allow freedom to transact. and stop stiffling/delaying growth by using the foolish utopian stories as scar tactic excuses why stiffling should occur.

and come to the realisation natural progressive incremental dynamic growth should be accepted, not rekt


the governments can adapt.
EG driverless Uber/taxi cab services could be the method of covering the costs of the road repair. much like train services repair the rail network through customers train ticket income.

retailers like mcdonalds end up paying a few sats per food packaging, to cover the street sweepers that clean up town city centres.

residents pay local manicipals for theirgarbage pickups. etc..

things can change. but not much has to. because even now with people earning money abroad, they still end up paying income tax somewhere

[Makka]

There seems to be a lot of people into bitcoin for the privacy and as a way to
evade being involved in the regular FIAT banking system.
Oh and also to try and expand on their "Investment".

So ive been meaning to ask these questions for a while.

Assuming we reach a Bitcoin Utopia where everyone is using Bitcoin and governments dont know
who has what how do our public services operate if no-one is paying taxes?

How do the Hospitals and Health systems get funded?

How do the education systems operate?

How do the Water, Electricity, Communications networks and other
public services like Lighting, Road Maintenance, Law and Order survive without funding?

At that time, I am sure bitcoin is already taxable. As a matter of fact, it is a taxable income when you gain bitcoin profits in other countries such as India. There is really no getting away from the government. The government will always find a way to survive. Even bitcoin holders themselves won't allow the government to go bankrupt. That is also bad for them.

[andrew24p]

I only want bitcoin to be an alternative that people can opt into, I dont want economies to run off it, just like I dont want economies to run off the gold standard. Running on deflationary currencies is a bad idea. Use fiat that the government can inflate, they pay for services and we can save our money elsewhere and opt into their economy if they want.

[HeRetiK]

Assuming we reach a Bitcoin Utopia where everyone is using Bitcoin and governments dont know
who has what how do our public services operate if no-one is paying taxes?

How do the Hospitals and Health systems get funded?

How do the education systems operate?

How do the Water, Electricity, Communications networks and other
public services like Lighting, Road Maintenance, Law and Order survive without funding?

If Bitcoin where to be used as the main currency this still wouldn't mean that you'd get rid of taxes.

Accepting Bitcoin as payment doesn't absolve a company from doing proper book keeping. Receiving Bitcoin as salary doesn't absolve an employee from doing tax reports. Or do you think that everyone will all of a sudden just report zero income while driving around in Lamborghinis?

Bitcoin doesn't change anything about that. In fact, it could make taxation more transparent. Just imagine what it would be like if you could publicly audit Google, Amazon and Apple on the blockchain. Seeing their well oiled machine of tax-optimized international subsidiaries at play. That'd be something.

[Beerwizzard]

There seems to be a lot of people into bitcoin for the privacy and as a way to
evade being involved in the regular FIAT banking system.
Oh and also to try and expand on their "Investment".

So ive been meaning to ask these questions for a while.

Assuming we reach a Bitcoin Utopia where everyone is using Bitcoin and governments dont know
who has what how do our public services operate if no-one is paying taxes?

How do the Hospitals and Health systems get funded?

How do the education systems operate?

How do the Water, Electricity, Communications networks and other
public services like Lighting, Road Maintenance, Law and Order survive without funding?

The problem of bitcoin is that you still have to make some efforts to make anonymous. If you want to pay your bills with bitcoins then you have to uncover yourself (and your transactions) for someone. If you won't risk to get charged for and unknown income then everything is gona be fine. If all those services are provided by private companies then it will make everything easier.

[Kprawn]

How does drug dealers and prostitutes pay taxes? --> VAT on the purchases they make. You also have regulated Bitcoin use,

when people use Bitcoin through third parties. { Exchanges that has to adhere to KYC/AML regulations } Bitcoin will never be

allowed, if it was 100% anonymous. They way it operated now, governments can actually track your financial matters more than

what they can do with cash. They will also be able to tax your Crypto trading with Capital Gain taxes.  

The super rich are using the Cayman Islands to avoid paying their fair share of taxes, why can the poor not do the same?

[senin]

Utopia is just the reasoning that people all over the world will someday use bitcoin and that bitcoin will replace ordinary money. Bitcoin will never replace ordinary money. It can only take a worthy place in the life of society, but it is not designed for small-scale purchases. Therefore, he can walk next to the usual currency. In some areas of trade, market and business, bitcoin and other crypto currencies will prevail, and in some cases the usual currency currency.

[aoluain]

Assuming we reach a Bitcoin Utopia where everyone is using Bitcoin and governments dont know
who has what how do our public services operate if no-one is paying taxes?

How do the Hospitals and Health systems get funded?

How do the education systems operate?

How do the Water, Electricity, Communications networks and other
public services like Lighting, Road Maintenance, Law and Order survive without funding?

If Bitcoin where to be used as the main currency this still wouldn't mean that you'd get rid of taxes.

Accepting Bitcoin as payment doesn't absolve a company from doing proper book keeping. Receiving Bitcoin as salary doesn't absolve an employee from doing tax reports. Or do you think that everyone will all of a sudden just report zero income while driving around in Lamborghinis?

Bitcoin doesn't change anything about that. In fact, it could make taxation more transparent. Just imagine what it would be like if you could publicly audit Google, Amazon and Apple on the blockchain. Seeing their well oiled machine of tax-optimized international subsidiaries at play. That'd be something.

Good discussion and replies all. This is more of an 
Idea I was looking for. I suppose if bitcoin was to
become mainstream taxation would also be applied
to it and of course as with FIAT evasion to an extent
would also be excersised

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Bitcoin IS supposed to be taxed, though I'm sure it's not reported in a lot of cases.  Yes, those thongs get funded with tax dollars,  as do many other things that shouldn't.  I think government should lay off of bitcoin to some extent,  but I realize that if they did then everyone would use it to avoid paying taxes entirely.   And we both know that's not going to happen.