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Author Topic: How do you day trade?  (Read 650 times)
rremus91
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August 05, 2017, 12:09:47 PM
 #1

People say that I shouldn't invest in more than I could afford to lose, so let's say just $ 200 would be okay, which is currently 0.06297962 BTC (1 BTC = $ 3175). Currently it's ATH so I'm not investing right now, I will just wait for price to drop. After losing nearly 2k USD in altcoins because I wanted to "go with the train" when the price seems to reach new high, the price suddenly dropped. So I'm not going to do that again.

What have I learned studying the charts in the past that the price what you can see aren't the real price, because of the fees and they are available for 1 whole Bitcoin. So assuming buy low: 2818 USD and sell it 2825, the price difference is $ 7 USD. My inner me said, oh that's 7 bucks of profit for risking 2818 USD. Yes, the price difference is $7, but the fess aren't applied which depends of how do you buy/sell the FIAT or Bitcoin. If you sell/buy it on market price, a 0.26% fee is applied and selling/buying with limit the fees are 0.16%. Below you can see the price and fees calculation

1. Buy at 9:00 am 1 BTC for $2818 at limit price (0.16% fee), you will have: 0.9984 BTC (0.0016 BTC fee)
2. Sell at 2:00 pm 0.9984 BTC for $2825 at limit price (0.16% fee), you will have: $2815.97 ($4.51 fee)

As you can see, even if the price increased by 0.25%, you will lose money because of fees. In this scenario, risking $2818 you lost $2.03 in 5 hours. That's just crazy. Your loss will be higher if you buy/sell on market price (0.26%).

I made a simulation in excel applying formulas to see my investment:
http://i.imgur.com/IPYW1Tu.png

-$7.67 if you buy/sell on market price (worst scenario)
-$4.85 if you buy at limit price and sell at market price
-$4.85 if you buy at market price and sell at limit price
-$2.03 if you buy/sell at limit price (the best scenario)

So, in order to be at 0 (no loss but no profit either) the price should increase by $12 (or 0.43%) which is $2830. See below:
http://i.imgur.com/zZL83dl.png

By investing $200 you won't get any reasonable profit ($6) even if the price increase by $100 ! Buy at: $2818 and sell at $2918, see below:
http://i.imgur.com/ivArfy9.png

----------------------------------------------------

As you can see, the fees are strictly high and most of the time people just ignore it and secondly, investing more into Bitcoin you will gain more profit, but the risk also increases.

So here are my questions towards to you:

1. How do you day trade?
2. How much money do you invest?
3. Do you have a stop-loss? Do you have targets?
4. Are you using some helper tools like tradingview?
5. By day trading it means that you continuously need to follow the market and get in/out. (You need to stay in the front of your computer which is time consuming).
6. Do you make multiple sells/buys in a day? How do you get a valuable profit after applying the fees in a given time-interval if the price difference is pretty low.
7. Day trading or just buying and keeping?

----------------------------------------------------

Long time trading looks to be more profitable towards day trading. By long time trading I mean for 10 months or 1 year. If you invest in Bitcoin $100 in every month, just buying and holding, at the end of the year you will have aprox $2200 for $1000 investment. That's 120% profit! (Calculated for past year from 1 Feb 2016 - 1 Jan 2017).
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August 05, 2017, 01:43:44 PM
 #2

People say that I shouldn't invest in more than I could afford to lose, so let's say just $ 200 would be okay, which is currently 0.06297962 BTC (1 BTC = $ 3175). Currently it's ATH so I'm not investing right now, I will just wait for price to drop. After losing nearly 2k USD in altcoins because I wanted to "go with the train" when the price seems to reach new high, the price suddenly dropped. So I'm not going to do that again.

What have I learned studying the charts in the past that the price what you can see aren't the real price, because of the fees and they are available for 1 whole Bitcoin. So assuming buy low: 2818 USD and sell it 2825, the price difference is $ 7 USD. My inner me said, oh that's 7 bucks of profit for risking 2818 USD. Yes, the price difference is $7, but the fess aren't applied which depends of how do you buy/sell the FIAT or Bitcoin. If you sell/buy it on market price, a 0.26% fee is applied and selling/buying with limit the fees are 0.16%. Below you can see the price and fees calculation

1. Buy at 9:00 am 1 BTC for $2818 at limit price (0.16% fee), you will have: 0.9984 BTC (0.0016 BTC fee)
2. Sell at 2:00 pm 0.9984 BTC for $2825 at limit price (0.16% fee), you will have: $2815.97 ($4.51 fee)

As you can see, even if the price increased by 0.25%, you will lose money because of fees. In this scenario, risking $2818 you lost $2.03 in 5 hours. That's just crazy. Your loss will be higher if you buy/sell on market price (0.26%).

I made a simulation in excel applying formulas to see my investment:


-$7.67 if you buy/sell on market price (worst scenario)
-$4.85 if you buy at limit price and sell at market price
-$4.85 if you buy at market price and sell at limit price
-$2.03 if you buy/sell at limit price (the best scenario)

So, in order to be at 0 (no loss but no profit either) the price should increase by $12 (or 0.43%) which is $2830. See below:


By investing $200 you won't get any reasonable profit ($6) even if the price increase by $100 ! Buy at: $2818 and sell at $2918, see below:


----------------------------------------------------

As you can see, the fees are strictly high and most of the time people just ignore it and secondly, investing more into Bitcoin you will gain more profit, but the risk also increases.

So here are my questions towards to you:

1. How do you day trade?
2. How much money do you invest?
3. Do you have a stop-loss? Do you have targets?
4. Are you using some helper tools like tradingview?
5. By day trading it means that you continuously need to follow the market and get in/out. (You need to stay in the front of your computer which is time consuming).
6. Do you make multiple sells/buys in a day? How do you get a valuable profit after applying the fees in a given time-interval if the price difference is pretty low.
7. Day trading or just buying and keeping?

----------------------------------------------------

Long time trading looks to be more profitable towards day trading. By long time trading I mean for 10 months or 1 year. If you invest in Bitcoin $100 in every month, just buying and holding, at the end of the year you will have aprox $2200 for $1000 investment. That's 120% profit! (Calculated for past year from 1 Feb 2016 - 1 Jan 2017).
I usually trade using the poloniex.Poloniex js an online money tradinv website that can help your make your bitcoin bigger in a ahort period of time.With poloniex you can ensire that your investment is safe because it was already teated as a legit website.
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August 05, 2017, 06:38:38 PM
 #3

~snip~
I usually trade using the poloniex.Poloniex js an online money tradinv website that can help your make your bitcoin bigger in a ahort period of time.With poloniex you can ensire that your investment is safe because it was already teated as a legit website.

But something bad happened lately in there,
many people complained about withdrawal issue,frozen account and shady margin.
6 months ago it was the best exchanger but everything has changed since they're closing trollboxes for nothing.

so i prefer to not do any trade in there for now


As you can see, the fees are strictly high and most of the time people just ignore it and secondly, investing more into Bitcoin you will gain more profit, but the risk also increases.

So here are my questions towards to you:

1. How do you day trade?
2. How much money do you invest?
3. Do you have a stop-loss? Do you have targets?
4. Are you using some helper tools like tradingview?
5. By day trading it means that you continuously need to follow the market and get in/out. (You need to stay in the front of your computer which is time consuming).
6. Do you make multiple sells/buys in a day? How do you get a valuable profit after applying the fees in a given time-interval if the price difference is pretty low.
7. Day trading or just buying and keeping?

----------------------------------------------------

For those question :
1.Honestly speaking i am not good at day trade,especially Bitcoin because it's price ridiculously volatile and if you use margin then mass sell or buy happen you will panic.so i am not doing day trade for Bitcoin instead i am doing day trade for altcoin.The reason is very simple,because i can split apart 1BTC into 10 parts and even one of them underwater i still can hold it and you may be lucky enough if another parts get profit and you can do it another day again.

2.Privacy absolutely,just invest that you can afford to lose.

3.Of course if you're trading you should have a targets because if you don't more likely you will always get greedy and in the end only losing your money.

4.Sometimes i used that tools,but don't get fooled by their chart just draw your chart alone and make your own strategy

5.Of course,you're asking an obvious answer.

6.That's why what i mentioned above in the point 1.If you separate it you can reduce your loses

7.I prefer to do Both of that

 
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August 05, 2017, 08:18:03 PM
 #4

I tried day trading many times but due to unpredictable sudden volatility, I was forced to hold my entries for weeks and then months too. This way I slowly become a long term trader and I am really enjoying big profits along with peace of mind. Before, with day trading I was fully tensed to watch price oscillations all the times.
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August 06, 2017, 12:00:16 AM
 #5

I tried day trading many times but due to unpredictable sudden volatility, I was forced to hold my entries for weeks and then months too. This way I slowly become a long term trader and I am really enjoying big profits along with peace of mind. Before, with day trading I was fully tensed to watch price oscillations all the times.
i think short term investment, or day trading is not such an easy job, i think those people who do not have good experience in day trading they find it really difficult to make money from day trding and for most of the time they lose their money.
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August 06, 2017, 01:33:37 AM
 #6

I tried day trading many times but due to unpredictable sudden volatility, I was forced to hold my entries for weeks and then months too. This way I slowly become a long term trader and I am really enjoying big profits along with peace of mind. Before, with day trading I was fully tensed to watch price oscillations all the times.
i think short term investment, or day trading is not such an easy job, i think those people who do not have good experience in day trading they find it really difficult to make money from day trding and for most of the time they lose their money.

Day trading is not as easy as you might have thought. There are so many considerations involved. There is risk in there considering that in short-term scenario, the ups and downs of prices are easily happening. There are fluctuations. It is happening on the little minutes and hours of a single coin.

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August 06, 2017, 01:39:22 AM
 #7


So here are my questions towards to you:

1. How do you day trade?
2. How much money do you invest?
3. Do you have a stop-loss? Do you have targets?
4. Are you using some helper tools like tradingview?
5. By day trading it means that you continuously need to follow the market and get in/out. (You need to stay in the front of your computer which is time consuming).
6. Do you make multiple sells/buys in a day? How do you get a valuable profit after applying the fees in a given time-interval if the price difference is pretty low.
7. Day trading or just buying and keeping?


my answer is :

1. i am not doing day trade because i don't have much time to watch market for a long time.
2. i think i don't want to tell you because its my secret  Grin its depend on how much you have free money for used in trade.
3. i don't use stop-loss. if the price is go down, i'll let it happen without doing cut loss and maybe sometime i am buy back again.
4. sometime i use if i can not determined in how price i want to buy and sell.
5. because i am not doing day trade, i don't have to be in the front of my computer. i have another thing that i should do.
6. sometimes i make multiple sells/buys but not in a day, maybe once a week but its depend on the coins movement.
7. if i can see the coins is moving too fast, i will buying and sell to reach profit. but if its not, buying and just keeping as investment is the best answer for me.

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August 06, 2017, 02:09:03 AM
 #8

Don't day trade if you dony know what you're doing, and 99% of
people don't.  That's because this market is so crazy that you
absolutely can't tell what it's going to do.   No one can.

I think your expected profit margins are way too low.  You need to
hold on for more of a gain than a few bucks, or else you're
absolutely right, fees will eat away any gains.  You could have
made a few hundred bucks on 1 btc had you just bought and
held it last week.  Lots of people have lost everything trying to
day trade.  I wouldn't advise doing it.

 
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pooya87
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August 06, 2017, 05:00:42 AM
 #9

try working with percentages instead of fixed numbers like $7 profit. for example $7 profit on a $3000 investment is 0.23% profit. this can give you a much better picture of how good or bad you are performing. in this case it is terrible even if we ignore the fees or calculate the profit after the deduction of fees.

in my experience any profit above 5% is good and satisfying for me. and i also do it mostly with altcoins. with bitcoin my strategy is buy and hold expect the times of high volatility when i an be sure of a price movement direction then i get in "day trading" bitcoin. otherwise altcoins can give better profit in short term for day trading purposes but it is harder.

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August 06, 2017, 07:44:56 AM
 #10

I think daily trading with a profit of 2% -5% per day is a pretty good result if it can be done consistently. Surely will be able to get profitable results.
Altcoin trading may be more difficult when compared with forex trading
manchester93
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August 06, 2017, 08:02:14 AM
 #11

Altcoin trading may be more difficult when compared with forex trading

Doubtful. Altcoin trading is fairly predictable (long trough/accumulation --> small insider pump --> price holds --> moon pump). Forex is just never-ending chop; I absolutely hated trading it. I'm so glad that I found crypto....
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August 06, 2017, 08:13:28 AM
 #12

I think daily trading with a profit of 2% -5% per day is a pretty good result if it can be done consistently. Surely will be able to get profitable results.
Altcoin trading may be more difficult when compared with forex trading

I do day trading by estimating a return of 2 -3 % of the total trade. I use some technical indicators to determine if its the right time to buy then after my buying price is hit, I would set a target price to sell. I'm not looking at the chart all day long and I would usually trade one pair at a time so that when the price didn't go my way, I would just average down and have enough capital as well.

xuan87
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August 06, 2017, 08:46:31 AM
 #13

No I don't any day trade because I don't have a lot of time to search for the news and see the chart closely, in day trading you need a lot of information before you trade, I only trade if I got a good source of information and you should have the limit for profit or losing, setting a target will make you easier to control yourself


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PacePay
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August 06, 2017, 05:46:44 PM
 #14

I think daily trading with a profit of 2% -5% per day is a pretty good result if it can be done consistently. Surely will be able to get profitable results.
Altcoin trading may be more difficult when compared with forex trading

I do day trading by estimating a return of 2 -3 % of the total trade. I use some technical indicators to determine if its the right time to buy then after my buying price is hit, I would set a target price to sell. I'm not looking at the chart all day long and I would usually trade one pair at a time so that when the price didn't go my way, I would just average down and have enough capital as well.
That’s a smart strategy indeed. One should always set limits to buying and selling. Too much greed leads to unbearable loss. 2-3% profit is a good margin for day trading. It really demands technical knowledge to do great in day trading. Not everyone is a successful day trader. Keep it up!
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August 10, 2017, 01:47:50 PM
 #15

Day trading is the trade which is done ina short duration of time,say an hour or a day.Day trading is best suitable for altcoins only which has very volatile market and it does not suit for bitcoin which is less volatile.Day trading is completed with low percentage,say 5% or 10% as profits.I invest mostly in bitcoins on a long term basis and so i don't do day trading.
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