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Author Topic: Question for those that support the rollback/MtGox  (Read 3377 times)
chihlidog
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June 21, 2011, 05:34:36 PM
 #1

Why is it that when a user posts about being hacked, the general responses are either  "that sucks, Im sorry" to mostly "Man, you should have used better security!" NOBODY suggests that markets be rolled back when this happens to an individual. People tell that individual to learn their lesson.

MtGox comes along and allows the site to be compromised. Why is the prevailing attitude towards MtGox not the same as the attitude that an individual user gets? MtGox SHOULD be held to a higher standard since they were entrusted with people's valuables. Instead, because people "like" them, instead of being told they should have had better security, boo hoo, learn your lesson, sucks to be you, etc. the majority of people here think they were victimized.


This isnt a troll, this is an honest question.

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GeniuSxBoY
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June 21, 2011, 05:38:16 PM
 #2

rolling back the site takes tremendous effort and downtime and affects everyone involved.

if everyone IS involved, it is reasonable to do a rollback.



All this effort... for one, two, ten people out of 50,000....
not so much.


Pretty simple logic right there.
matsh
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June 21, 2011, 05:42:49 PM
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Why is it that when a user posts about being hacked, the general responses are either  "that sucks, Im sorry" to mostly "Man, you should have used better security!" NOBODY suggests that markets be rolled back when this happens to an individual. People tell that individual to learn their lesson.

If someone hacks your computer and transfers your Bitcoins to a previously unknown address, there just isn't anything that CAN be done.

MtGox comes along and allows the site to be compromised. Why is the prevailing attitude towards MtGox not the same as the attitude that an individual user gets? MtGox SHOULD be held to a hiogher standard since they were entrusted with people's valuables. Instead, because people "like" them, instead of being told they should have had better security, boo hoo, learn your lesson, sucks to be you, etc. the majority of people here think they were victimized.

In this case, MtGox CAN revert the transfer of money and Bitcoins, and should therefore do it. IMHO.
Freakin
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June 21, 2011, 06:35:08 PM
 #4

The impact is the other big sticking point.  A user getting even 25k bitcoins stolen doesn't affect the whole community.

500k BTC being sold and crashing the market down to $.01 affects the short and long term success of bitcoin as a whole, as well as every user holding bitcoin.
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June 21, 2011, 06:45:39 PM
 #5

MtGox comes along and allows the site to be compromised. Why is the prevailing attitude towards MtGox not the same as the attitude that an individual user gets? MtGox SHOULD be held to a higher standard since they were entrusted with people's valuables. Instead, because people "like" them, instead of being told they should have had better security, boo hoo, learn your lesson, sucks to be you, etc. the majority of people here think they were victimized.


This isnt a troll, this is an honest question.

Honest answer to an honest question.  Using your own words, Mt Gox SHOULD be held to a higher standard.  And is.  If he was treated like an individual user right now, we'd all be like "well fuck, for the greater good that individual user who just got hacked is fucked because for the greater good we will all be okay".  This is not the case with Gox, in fact, it is the opposite, the greater good in this case, favors him no matter if he is in the right wrong or what.

chihlidog
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June 21, 2011, 06:55:31 PM
 #6

I dont know that everyone agrees with that. However, I feel like thats the first response that makes a little sense to me. IF one feels it is truly in the greater good for the rollback to happen, then I can see why it would be supported. I supposed I am just confused about whether this is the Wild West or Wall Street. 

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Maged
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June 21, 2011, 07:32:43 PM
 #7

The difference is, if a small amount of BTC was stolen and converted to USD and was later reclaimed, the USD could re-buy a similar amount of BTC. If that results is less BTC, it's just a small idiot tax. Try re-buying 500k BTC without paying 1000x more, though.

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June 21, 2011, 07:48:29 PM
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I dont know that everyone agrees with that. However, I feel like thats the first response that makes a little sense to me. IF one feels it is truly in the greater good for the rollback to happen, then I can see why it would be supported. I supposed I am just confused about whether this is the Wild West or Wall Street. 

Both.

Bitcoin is the Wild West.  Mtgox is Wall Street.  Or rather, mtgox is part of a group that hopes to grow up to be Wall Street some day.

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Bazil
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June 21, 2011, 07:56:50 PM
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Yeah,  if someone busts into your computer and steals your bitcoins nothing can be done, even if it was 500k.  Since this happened on an exchange it can be reversed for the most part.

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June 21, 2011, 08:35:18 PM
 #10

I dont know that everyone agrees with that. However, I feel like thats the first response that makes a little sense to me. IF one feels it is truly in the greater good for the rollback to happen, then I can see why it would be supported. I supposed I am just confused about whether this is the Wild West or Wall Street. 

Break it down simpler.   We have two sides fighting, but we all can agree on one thing, the person/s who stole the coins is THE MOST at fault.   Gox, is second at fault.  Better security, blah blah blah, I can easily attribute that to "Every single user took that risk when they signed up".....    but no one, not one fucking person signed up to be fucked over by a hacker.

Gambling is one thing, fixing the game, well, fuck that.  All sides should agree, that the person/s who stole the coins need to be held the most responsible.

I agree that getting mad at a parent (Gox) if their kid turns out to be a murderer (h4x0rz), is easy to do, but in the end, wrong.

Even even simpler, we are the whole class, and we are all being fucked because one person (h4x0rz) decided to throw a paper airplane at teacher (Gox).

Also, the teacher looks like this:



Sorry, growing tired of these analogies and bullshit.  It fucking sucks for everybody, there are no rules written about this situation, no 'right or wrong' .. just the ability to step out of your shoes for a second and go 'okay, this is the best decision for most people involved'

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June 21, 2011, 08:53:06 PM
 #11

Because a wallet hack is permanent, and MtGox hack can be fixed. Trust me, if someone's wallet was hacked, and it was possible to fix the problem somehow, I would be for it too.

unbuttered_toast
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June 21, 2011, 09:19:21 PM
 #12

I'll bite.

My reaction tends to be the same in both cases.

When people, through ignorance or irresponsibility, put themselves in a vulnerable position, and then get taken advantage of, that's unfortunate. Bitcoin is in this awkward place where the system (I mean the culture, web sites, software that end users interact with) isn't mature enough to support people ignorant of security, but has gotten popular enough to attract those same people.

When a single person's wallet gets stolen/hacked/destroyed, there's nothing that can be done about it. That person obviously didn't understand the nature of the game they were in, and that's too bad.

When Mt. Gox got hacked, there were three major differences: the majority of the victims didn't do anything wrong (except for, perhaps, risking more than they were willing to lose), the scope of the damage was much larger, and a rollback more-or-less fixes the damage, without undermining the Bitcoin system itself.
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