r0ach proven right - Bitcoin market is a Gox-style fraud controlled by Bitfinex

[manselr]

This is nothing but conspiracy theory thus far.

LOL nice try shill, calling easy to recognize Bitfinex fraud a "conspiracy theory".  This is no "theory", they made their fraud blatantly obvious for all to see.

Im not a bitfinex shill and I couldn't care less if there was manipulation or not. If you are an adult you should consider by default that all markets are manipulated to some extent, including gold, yet I don't see you talking about gold market manipulation.

Once Bitcoin is worth trillions, the manipulation will be less noticeable like gold, because it becomes harder to have a big impact on the price. Until then, Bitcoin will keep going up, metals will continue being a disappointment.

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[r0ach]

This is nothing but conspiracy theory thus far.

LOL nice try shill, calling easy to recognize Bitfinex fraud a "conspiracy theory".  This is no "theory", they made their fraud blatantly obvious for all to see.

Im not a bitfinex shill and I couldn't care less if there was manipulation or not. If you are an adult you should consider by default that all markets are manipulated to some extent, including gold, yet I don't see you talking about gold market manipulation.

Once Bitcoin is worth trillions, the manipulation will be less noticeable like gold, because it becomes harder to have a big impact on the price. Until then, Bitcoin will keep going up, metals will continue being a disappointment.

Listen shill, this thread is about obvious Bitfinex fraud, which no matter how hard you try you are not going to derail the thread from.  Your statement that bitcoin is guaranteed to increase to "trillions" while metals will go down when they're already at cost of production is also a joke.  Having said that, this thread is about Bitfinex fraud, not your other market delusions.

[Wind_FURY]

>r0ach proven right
>thread started by r0ach himself

Let's eat silver for breakfast.

I am afraid I would have to agree. Nothing is actually proven. A story printed in Zerohedge, alleging that there is an entity called "Spoofy" manipulating Bitfinex and they therefore conclude he is also manipulating the whole Bitcoin market, does not prove anything.

What it proves is there are like-minded people in Bitcoin that have put their tin foil hats on.

I do believe that there is market manipulation in Bitcoin from time to time. But there is no single entity called "Spoofy" controlling all.

[oblox]

Not to inflate OP's ego any further... but did anyone else see the 4000+ BTC sell wall around $3400 on BFX one block from segwit lock in?

[Wind_FURY]

Not to inflate OP's ego any further... but did anyone else see the 4000+ BTC sell wall around $3400 on BFX one block from segwit lock in?

Yes but to say that this is a "MtGox style" kind of manipulation is far from the truth. Bitfinex does not have close to the dominance of MtGox in volume on the whole Bitcoin market. How do you expect "Spoofy" to manipulate everything?

[Lucid717]

For one, if true they've already played that hand, and it wouldn't work again... nobody would buy it and they'd likely be indicted.  For another at the volume it's at now it's out of their hands.  Confidence will be the only thing that influences the value of BTC from this point on. 

Selling off your BTC for Gold is something only to be done when you can sense a drop coming, and there are signs/trends that, while hardly concrete, can hint at when that's going to occur.  And to be honest it could again very soon.  I predicted (correctly) the last time it happened, and within a few days the price went from nearly 3K to the 2100-2200 range.  The thing is though it then rose then stabilized around the 2500-2600 range in less than a week.  I expected the drop to be more severe.  When I saw that I realized the currency had even more potential than I imagined, and that the only thing keeping it there was apprehension over the whole Segwit thing.  When I, among many others realized it would amount to a non-event I knew it would explode again, and once again correctly predicted it would climb, and encouraged everyone that may have sold when it was near 3K to re-invest again (look in the archives in this sub-forum if you don't believe me).  Only I expected that once it hit 3K it would get to 4K before you could blink.  Now that I see it stabilizing around the 3400-3500 mark, well, for the first time in awhile I'm not sure what to do next.  I'll be watching closely for the next few days, hour by hour, to see if it's time to pull again or to stay the course longer. 

I did make a little extra money in the down-time buying gold coins just above spot and getting them slabbed & certified by NGC, then selling them on EBay.  It was better than keeping it in the bank.  You can make about $100 per 1 oz. coin by doing this.  One of them was even "burnished" (rare).  I'd say it's the safest & best way to turn a sure profit without having your money tied up.  But just gold by itself is a stagnant investment these days.  Silver too.  All I heard for years was to turn your fiat money into gold & silver, but it's actually lost value in the recent past. 

[elite3000]

How can btc be controled by Bitfinex if they only have around 10% of the trade volume and MtGox used to have the vast majority of trade volume in the early days(up to 80%)?

[AlexM]

How can btc be controled by Bitfinex if they only have around 10% of the trade volume and MtGox used to have the vast majority of trade volume in the early days(up to 80%)?

I agree with you here. I ready the whole spoofy story and agree that manipulation does take place in Bitcoin trading and has always done so... however I do not think that 1 exchange slavishly follows another especially when the one to follow is Bitfinex. As an example yesterday I sold a couple of Bitcoins on Kraken for £2800 ($3650), coins on all the other £ exchanges sold for around £2650. And are further down today... so no one followed that ath.

I don't see how this is comparable to mtgox in scale or ability to manipulate.

[r0ach]

How can btc be controled by Bitfinex if they only have around 10% of the trade volume and MtGox used to have the vast majority of trade volume in the early days(up to 80%)?

Stop asking the same question over and over.  All you have to do is manipulate whatever the market maker exchange is and the others follow.  It doesn't matter if Bitfinex has less market share than Gox.  If anything that just makes it easier for them to move price since people look to them to determine price in the west regardless.  A single entity/person has controlled the price on Bitfinex all the way from $200 to now the vast majority of the time.

[bitserve]

Gold bugs will switch to bitcoin

Both bitcoin and gold are scarce commodities with a finite supply, notes Tom Lee of Fundstrat. Both, arguably, have no particular utility beyond the value ascribed to them by the markets.

In July, Lee published a report setting out the case for valuing bitcoin as a gold substitute, according to CNBC. His methodology implies bitcoin’s price will reach $20,000 to $55,000 in five years, representing a 12 to 43-fold increase from today’s price. The value of all the world’s gold is around $7.6 trillion at current prices, or around 130 times the size of the bitcoin market. As bitcoin’s market value rises, Lee reckons central banks will start buying it, pushing the price up further and “accelerating the substitution of gold,” he told CNBC.


Source: https://qz.com/1047848/btc-price-the-case-for-5000-bitcoin/

P.S.: In fact it may be happening already as we have one big time gold/silver bug spending most of his time in this very same Bitcoin forum

P.S.2.: Bitfinex is almost irrelevant now in comparison with MtGOX in 2013/14.

[gentlemand]

https://hackernoon.com/the-curious-tale-of-tethers-6b0031eead87

A pretty good summary here.

BFX has been shitting in our faces for years on end. At some point it will come to a head and it really, really will not be pretty.

[bitserve]

https://hackernoon.com/the-curious-tale-of-tethers-6b0031eead87

A pretty good summary here.

BFX has been shitting in our faces for years on end. At some point it will come to a head and it really, really will not be pretty.

But... what's tether? a $300 million market cap altcoin? Irrelevant... except for those burned on it in spite of all warnings.

[gentlemand]

But... what's tether? a $300 million market cap altcoin? Irrelevant... except for those burned on it in spite of all warnings.

Even if you yourself don't care about it, its ramifications in the case of it turning out to be nowt but hot air are rather huge.

Bitcoin's rise coincided almost to the day with the end of Bitfinex's real banking. Tether went from about $5-10 million issued before that to over $300 million now.

It's also spread hugely into the alt markets. If it fails, and nothing pegged has ever survived in the long run, then a lot of people will be left with nothing and confidence in the whole market will be seriously shaken.

[mindrust]

So, to be able to get out even, are they artificially pumping bitcoin? It didn't work out for Mt.Gox, why would it work out for bitfinex?

[bitserve]

But... what's tether? a $300 million market cap altcoin? Irrelevant... except for those burned on it in spite of all warnings.

Even if you yourself don't care about it, its ramifications in the case of it turning out to be nowt but hot air are rather huge.

Bitcoin's rise coincided almost to the day with the end of Bitfinex's real banking. Tether went from about $5-10 million issued before that to over $300 million now.

It's also spread hugely into the alt markets. If it fails, and nothing pegged has ever survived in the long run, then a lot of people will be left with nothing and confidence in the whole market will be seriously shaken.

So the problem is the "hypotetical" peg? I have in some rare ocassions used tether (and even margin traded it), but I was always aware that it's peg to $1 was just some probability. If people think it's an infalible $1 peg, they are using it wrong. If I ever feel it is going to crash I will short it on Kraken.

It's an altcoint, not anything with real GARANTEED value. That is even CLEARLY expressed in its terms of use.

[gentlemand]

So the problem is the "hypotetical" peg? I have in some rare ocassions used tether (and even margin traded it), but I was always aware that it's peg to $1 was just some probability. If people think it's an infalible $1 peg, they are using it wrong. If I ever feel it is going to crash I will short it on Kraken.

It's an altcoint, not anything with real GARANTEED value. That is even CLEARLY expressed in its terms of use.

It's not so much the peg that's the problem, it's possibility that it's currently pegged to absolutely zilch.

And most people aren't bright enough to read the terms and conditions. They're blithely assuming they're as good as dollars. If enough people question it then and they test that and there turns out to be nothing there then we got problems. 

[whaawh]

Bitfinex has very strongly compromised itself last year. That time I was very much convinced that this exchange had failed and no one would turn to their services. But for today we see a completely different situation. I would like all exchanges to start working on altcoin to us too. And besides, I give the opportunity to many markers.