BitDNS Bounty (3500 BTC)

[jorgen]

Keep the ball rolling folks! I know this is not all of you.

I pledge 90 btc

[kiba]

We need a distribution scheme of some kind.

[da2ce7]

I pledge +50 BTC

[SmokeTooMuch]

I liked BitDNS, but I don't really care about the name as long as it works

[Timo Y]

I pledge 50 BTC.

I trust kiba to be the final judge on whether this bounty has been fulfilled.

[Mahkul]

I pledge 100 BTC.

[kiba]

Update done  for Mahkul.

[Timo Y]

Bump, because Namecoin has been announced.

My offer still stands.

Will we award this bounty?

[Nefario]

Announced doesn't mean working, he's trying to get it started, which is fine but there are still some problems with it.

Once we have a working prototype then great, once all (most) parties are satisfied then go for it.

[hacim]

Announced doesn't mean working, he's trying to get it started, which is fine but there are still some problems with it.

Once we have a working prototype then great, once all (most) parties are satisfied then go for it.

What qualifies as working? I'm able to generate namecoins through mining, I've registered domain names with the namecoins that I mined. I've changed those domain name properties to have A records, and subdomains, and I've setup nameserver forwarding.... all of this works. I feel like there IS a working prototype.

What problems are you saying are sticking points for holding back the bounty dispersal?

[kiba]

Should we start collecting bounty reward? Is anybody going to pussy out because now this bounty represent 15 K USD?

[grue]

Is anybody going to pussy out because now this bounty represent 15 K USD?

probably, maybe we should just collect that amount in USD (at the time of pledge).

[ribuck]

My pledge still stands, but I must say I'm terribly uneasy about the fixed limit on the total eventual domain names. That pretty much guarantees that namecoin won't take over the world's DNS registration.

Other than that, I think namecoin is great!

I'll pay up, reluctantly but cheerfully, if bounties are being collected at this time, but I'll be much happier if the limit on total domain names can be removed.

[Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza]

...but I'll be much happier if the limit on total domain names can be removed.

Agreed. Limiting the amount of bitcoins was a good idea, because it is a currency. Namecoins is not meant to be a currency, so I don't see the point of limiting the total amount to be created.

[ribuck]

Limiting the amount of bitcoins was a good idea, because it is a currency.

...and bitcoins are divisible. A quarter of a domain name isn't much use to anyone.

[khal]

Can you say precisely what is limiting the number of domain names ?

The only thing which i'm sure of: the current maximum block size (1M) is limiting the possible number of updates. But, the maximum block size is not a real problem.

Is there any other limit ?

[ribuck]

Can you say precisely what is limiting the number of domain names ?

Vinced estimated a maximum of 30 million names. It seems that this is limited by block size, which can be increased.

So let's see if Namecoin scales reasonably. I haven't used Namecoin, so please correct me if I've misunderstood anything. I'm just looking at Namecoin from the point of view of "do I feel satisfied paying out my bounty?".

Here is my understanding (edited to reflect replies up to 17 May). Please correct any errors:

1. 50 namecoins are generated with every block.
2. The block target time is 10 minutes.
3. Generation difficulty scales the same way as Bitcoin.
4. The number of namecoins per block doesn't decrease. It's 50 forever.
5. There is no 21-million limit to the number of namecoins generated.
6. To reserve a domain costs 0.01 NC plus mining fees, so there is a hard limit of 720000 new names per day, but in practice the limit will be much lower because not all namecoins are used to reserve domains.
7. To activate a domain costs an amount that started at 50 NC but halves every two months, down to a minimum of 0.01NC plus mining fees. So after about two years, the activation cost (cost of "first update") will be as low as the renewal cost ("name update").
8. The renewal cost is 0.01 NC plus mining fees, at least once every 12000 blocks. In practice a figure of twice per 12000 blocks seems realistic, to allow for DNS changes and also for people to renew before the 12000-block deadline to avoid the risk of losing their domain names.
9. The mining fees are kept by the miner who generates the block containing the transaction. The 0.01NC fee to reserve a domain is sent back to you in the form of an unspendable coin that represents the reserved domain. The "first update" and "name update" fees are burned.

If these points can be confirmed or corrected, I'll have a better feel for namecoin's scalability.

(PS: Kiba: chaord's bounty had an expiry date, so the total bounty is lower than your figure.)

[khal]

Vinced estimated a maximum of 30 million names. It seems that this is limited by block size, which can be increased.

So let's see if Namecoin scales reasonably.

This shouldn't be a problem, same thing apply for bitcoin scalability.

I haven't used Namecoin, so please correct me if I've misunderstood anything. I'm just looking at Namecoin from the point of view of "do I feel satisfied paying out my bounty?".

Here is my understanding. Please correct any errors:

1. 50 namecoins are generated with every block.
2. The block target time is 10 minutes.
3. Generation difficulty scales the same way as Bitcoin.
8. The renewal cost is 0.01 NC, at least once every 12000 blocks. In practice a figure of twice per 12000 blocks seems realistic, to allow for DNS changes and also for people to renew before the 12000-block deadline to avoid the risk of losing their domain names.

True.

4. The number of namecoins per block doesn't decrease. It's 50 forever.
5. There is no 21-million limit to the number of namecoins generated.

I don't think so, but it should be confirmed by vince (the code seems the same than bitcoin).

6. To reserve a domain costs 0.01 NC, so there is a hard limit of 720000 new names per day, but in practice the limit will be much lower because not all namecoins are used to reserve domains.

It's the same thing for bitcoin. Just a mater of deciding what value will scale well.

7. To activate a domain costs an amount that started at 50 NC but halves every two months. So after about two years, the activation cost (cost of "first update") will be lower than the renewal cost ("name update").

The lower limit is 0.01NC for a first update. Cost of a domain is constantly decreasing (second per second), at the rate of 50% each 8192 blocks (57 days) if i understood the code. Vince says "The network fee decreases 2x every 2 months" in the FAQ.
I've reproducted the formula of the source code here : http://dot-bit.org/tools/domainCost.php?block=3561
This is to limit the rush on domain names.

9. Some payments are burned, and some are kept by the miner, and some are retained by the spender to represent names. Is that right? What happens to each kind of payment?

Yes.
All that you pay is lost, except for the fees that go to miners (like bitcoin), and the special 0.01NC that is send to yourself and reserved.
As Vince said, if you want to update sex.bit, it'll cost 0.01NC (lost) + a fee (like bitcoin, miners may refuse your transaction if the fee is too low)

If these points can be confirmed or corrected, I'll have a better feel for namecoin's scalability.

As you promised a bounty for that, you've the right to put some conditions, and explain them. It's up to the implied people to find them reasonable or not. But, for that part, as i'm not the main developper of namecoin, my opinion imply myself only, even if i implied myself a lot in this project.

[ribuck]

Thank you khal for your response. I've updated my previous post to reflect your clarifications. The points that are still unclear for me are:

1. Does the block reward stay at 50 coins, or does it reduce over time.

2. Is there a 21 million limit for generated namecoins.

3. The "special 0.01NC that is sent to you and reserved" is the coin that represents the domain name, right? It sits in your NC wallet but can never be spent, even if you let the domain name lapse, right? Where does this unspendable coin come from: the domain reservation, the first update, the renewal, or all of these?

[vinced]

khal is right on all points, except for the 0.01NC coin attached to the name.  That coin value can be anything, including one micro bitcoin.  There is no lower limit to the attached coin, the network fee or the transaction fee, so that does not limit the number of names.

The block size limit is shared by bitcoin, and will probably be resolved in the same way.  It will be increased when the need arises with plenty of advance notice.

Please go ahead and vote on the bounty.  I will share at least 30% with other developers and promoters.