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Author Topic: Do I pay taxes when I sell an alt coin for bitcoin?  (Read 19334 times)
investinator
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September 26, 2017, 03:03:52 PM
 #81

Do I need to pay taxes if I sell an alt coin for bitcoin then rebuy a different alt coin. I never took out actual USD so I am unsure how that would work. Or am I only taxes on actual USD made when I cash out?

Taxes are different by country but at least where I'm at I interpret it as only needing to pay once its cashed to fiat.

This is such a broad question though and I wish there was a website out there showing the exact tax rules by country for crypto trading.
DanWagner
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September 26, 2017, 03:07:32 PM
 #82

When they can't find out i don't see a problem , btc to fiat you have to pay.
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September 26, 2017, 03:08:03 PM
 #83

No, you just need to pay the trading fees which was for the services of exchanges.
but i dont think its a taxes. its a profit for web host. there might be a taxes for bitcoin we earn when more regulation come up.

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September 26, 2017, 03:23:20 PM
 #84

Do I need to pay taxes if I sell an alt coin for bitcoin then rebuy a different alt coin. I never took out actual USD so I am unsure how that would work. Or am I only taxes on actual USD made when I cash out?
When you do make cashouts it does have tax depending on the exchange as far as i know when we are talking about USD but talking about switching from altcoin to convert it to Bitcoin then theres no tax on it and its just a simple tax which is being charged by exchanges which isnt really big at all to be worried off. Heres in my wallet local provider i can exchange and cashout bitcoins without being taxed.
Making cashout transaction there will be the time or let say that it can be have a tax and on the case of selling altcoin to btc i dont think that it may now been taxed in cash out i am not totally sure if can be called tax or just a fee.
hangar18
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September 26, 2017, 03:27:21 PM
 #85

Do I need to pay taxes if I sell an alt coin for bitcoin then rebuy a different alt coin. I never took out actual USD so I am unsure how that would work. Or am I only taxes on actual USD made when I cash out?

Taxes are different by country but at least where I'm at I interpret it as only needing to pay once its cashed to fiat.

This is such a broad question though and I wish there was a website out there showing the exact tax rules by country for crypto trading.
It only useful when exchanger public their services and want to pay taxes fee. But in the fact, no one wants that, haha. Simply I will ask you: "Would you like to pay the taxes fee when you using cryptocurrecies?"
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September 26, 2017, 03:33:01 PM
 #86

Even if it is unclear at the moment, the final answer will probably be "no" for most countries. It is only up to the point you cash out to fiat that you will be exposed to tax. Or, even if your bitcoins are taxed, states will soon draw up anti double taxation laws to make it fair and prevent evasion. Australia, for example, is the latest to pass this law. So you're taxed once, and that is it.

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September 26, 2017, 04:05:08 PM
 #87

Do I need to pay taxes if I sell an alt coin for bitcoin then rebuy a different alt coin. I never took out actual USD so I am unsure how that would work. Or am I only taxes on actual USD made when I cash out?

Well I think there is no tax when you trade between coins but there are fees in each trade so it totally depends on which trading site you are in and how much are their fees. I haven't also tried on cashing out coins as USD and I'm sure some people have already did that but I do think there is a tax when you cash it out, probably because they its a real currency that you are converting that's why there is tax but in bitcoin or altcoins is not a currency that the government approves yet but soon if the government touches bitcoin and altcoin surely, there will be taxes on it too.
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September 26, 2017, 04:13:57 PM
 #88

Do I need to pay taxes if I sell an alt coin for bitcoin then rebuy a different alt coin. I never took out actual USD so I am unsure how that would work. Or am I only taxes on actual USD made when I cash out?

As others are indicating, that depends on your domicile. If you are based in the US I am unfortunately not able to help you further.
DavidBrown
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September 29, 2017, 07:29:47 AM
 #89

When you are trading Bitcoins or digital currencies on an exchange, each sell order must be included in your capital gains calculations, even if you never withdrew the dollars to your own bank account.
If you received USD, another foreign currency, or even another digital currency, you have potential capital gains/losses. This includes any trading to other digital currencies, for example, buying ETH with BTC.
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September 29, 2017, 07:35:41 AM
 #90

I really don't know cryptocurrencies are getting taxed in most countries.
In my country they don't even follow it. It is not regulated. I guess US citizens are getting taxed?
buharikx31
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September 29, 2017, 07:56:39 AM
 #91

In my country we dont pay taxes for withdrawing bitcoin's and i think in a most countries still not regulated process, because of complicated and variative methods of withdrawing bitcoin, but i think in couple of countries this process regulated or included as a tax when you withdrawing from card


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September 29, 2017, 08:25:16 AM
 #92

In the US I would say 100% YES YES YES. Don't mess with uncle sam. That would be the last thing you want to get caught for. An offshore account won't save you!

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September 29, 2017, 10:03:10 AM
 #93

Do I need to pay taxes if I sell an alt coin for bitcoin then rebuy a different alt coin. I never took out actual USD so I am unsure how that would work. Or am I only taxes on actual USD made when I cash out?
yes you have a provision regarding selling of crypto currencies and it should be fall under capital gains tax whether short term or long term depending on how long you are holding your capital asset.

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October 02, 2017, 07:32:20 AM
 #94

No, you do not have to pay tax but you have to pay for the fee. I believe that miner and exchange will take a small fee from your activity. Even retail sellers have some fee too. You do not have to pay tax by using cryptocurrency because they help you to hide your identity. If you want to be a good citizen, you can pay the tax to the government.

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October 02, 2017, 07:37:13 AM
 #95

When they can't find out i don't see a problem , btc to fiat you have to pay.
There's definitely no problem until the figured out that you have avoided the taxes and trying to arrest you soon. It's better to always report your earning each month to the government.
I prefer to lose 10% of my earning rather than get arrested for years.  By the way, not only btc to fiat which is taxed, but any cryptocurrency to fiat which makes you earn additional earning.

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October 02, 2017, 07:50:11 AM
 #96

You do not need to pay tax. Well, actually, no one knows and cares about do you pay tax or not because the government, in general, can not trace you because the anonymity that the crytpcourrency has given to us. DOnt worry, just buy coins and hold.s

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October 02, 2017, 01:30:41 PM
 #97

Everyone just need to answer one question..

ARE YOU TOO RICH TO GO TO PRISON.. ? If not don't do it.. pay your taxes if your taxman is asking.
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October 02, 2017, 01:48:40 PM
 #98

Lots of other people in this thread have covered this ... But I will just add my two cents:

I would assume, based upon your post, that you live in the United States. In the United States, you are only required to pay taxes on investments (cryptocurrency is considered an investment) when they are "cashed out" ... If you sell your cryptocurrency for fiat (ie. USD) and the value exceeds the "extra income" threshold, it needs to be claimed as "extra income" on your taxes. If you are dealing with values LESS THAN $1,500, I wouldn't worry about it. Also, there is no need to report anything on your taxes when trading one crypto for another -- or if you are holding an "estimated value" worth of cryptos in a virtual wallet. As far as the IRS is concerned, it doesn't exist until it is turned into fiat.

I am not aware of any US based exchanges that refuse to report their statements to the IRS. You can bet your bottom dollar if you sell your cryptos and send $50,000 to your bank account, and don't claim it on your taxes, you will be audited and most likely charged for tax fraud/evasion. Even if they don't catch you immediately, they could very well catch you 2, 3, 4, even 10 years later. You will still be responsible for all those unpaid taxes. If/when you are audited, I guarantee your bank won't be on your side, Coinbase (or whatever exchange you use) won't be on your side -- all of those entities will turn into big giant buses that will continually run you over Wink

Better safe than sorry. If you sell it for fiat, you need to report it (anything over $1500-2000/yr).



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October 02, 2017, 02:02:43 PM
 #99

does your country accept bitcoin? If they dont accept it and dont do anything to protect your bitcoin why we must pay them tax?
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October 04, 2017, 05:27:22 PM
 #100

IRS Official Declaration
This Regulation is for US there are different regulation Depending upon your Country

IR-2014-36, March. 25, 2014

WASHINGTON — The Internal Revenue Service today issued a notice providing answers to frequently asked questions (FAQs) on virtual currency, such as bitcoin. These FAQs provide basic information on the U.S. federal tax implications of transactions in, or transactions that use, virtual currency.

In some environments, virtual currency operates like “real” currency -- i.e., the coin and paper money of the United States or of any other country that is designated as legal tender, circulates, and is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance -- but it does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction.

The notice provides that virtual currency is treated as property for U.S. federal tax purposes.  General tax principles that apply to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual currency.  Among other things, this means that:

Wages paid to employees using virtual currency are taxable to the employee, must be reported by an employer on a Form W-2, and are subject to federal income tax withholding and payroll taxes.
Payments using virtual currency made to independent contractors and other service providers are taxable and self-employment tax rules generally apply.  Normally, payers must issue Form 1099.
The character of gain or loss from the sale or exchange of virtual currency depends on whether the virtual currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer.
A payment made using virtual currency is subject to information reporting to the same extent as any other payment made in property.

More Information
Q-1: How is virtual currency treated for federal tax purposes?
A-1: For federal tax purposes, virtual currency is treated as property. General tax
principles applicable to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual
currency.
Q-2: Is virtual currency treated as currency for purposes of determining whether
a transaction results in foreign currency gain or loss under U.S. federal tax laws?
A-2: No. Under currently applicable law, virtual currency is not treated as currency that
could generate foreign currency gain or loss for U.S. federal tax purposes.
Q-3: Must a taxpayer who receives virtual currency as payment for goods or
services include in computing gross income the fair market value of the virtual
currency?
A-3: Yes. A taxpayer who receives virtual currency as payment for goods or services
must, in computing gross income, include the fair market value of the virtual currency,
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measured in U.S. dollars, as of the date that the virtual currency was received. See
Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on
miscellaneous income from exchanges involving property or services.
Q-4: What is the basis of virtual currency received as payment for goods or
services in Q&A-3?
A-4: The basis of virtual currency that a taxpayer receives as payment for goods or
services in Q&A-3 is the fair market value of the virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the
date of receipt. See Publication 551, Basis of Assets, for more information on the
computation of basis when property is received for goods or services.
Q-5: How is the fair market value of virtual currency determined?
A-5: For U.S. tax purposes, transactions using virtual currency must be reported in
U.S. dollars. Therefore, taxpayers will be required to determine the fair market value of
virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the date of payment or receipt. If a virtual currency
is listed on an exchange and the exchange rate is established by market supply and
demand, the fair market value of the virtual currency is determined by converting the
virtual currency into U.S. dollars (or into another real currency which in turn can be
converted into U.S. dollars) at the exchange rate, in a reasonable manner that is
consistently applied.
Q-6: Does a taxpayer have gain or loss upon an exchange of virtual currency for
other property?
A-6: Yes. If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency
exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable
gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less
than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency. See Publication 544, Sales and Other
Dispositions of Assets, for information about the tax treatment of sales and exchanges,
such as whether a loss is deductible.
Q-7: What type of gain or loss does a taxpayer realize on the sale or exchange of
virtual currency?
A-7: The character of the gain or loss generally depends on whether the virtual
currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer. A taxpayer generally realizes
capital gain or loss on the sale or exchange of virtual currency that is a capital asset in
the hands of the taxpayer. For example, stocks, bonds, and other investment property
are generally capital assets. A taxpayer generally realizes ordinary gain or loss on the
sale or exchange of virtual currency that is not a capital asset in the hands of the
taxpayer. Inventory and other property held mainly for sale to customers in a trade or
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business are examples of property that is not a capital asset. See Publication 544 for
more information about capital assets and the character of gain or loss.
Q-8: Does a taxpayer who “mines” virtual currency (for example, uses computer
resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin
transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency
resulting from those activities?
A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully “mines” virtual currency, the fair market value
of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income. See
Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on taxable
income.
Q-9: Is an individual who “mines” virtual currency as a trade or business subject
to self-employment tax on the income derived from those activities?
A-9: If a taxpayer’s “mining” of virtual currency constitutes a trade or business, and the
“mining” activity is not undertaken by the taxpayer as an employee, the net earnings
from self-employment (generally, gross income derived from carrying on a trade or
business less allowable deductions) resulting from those activities constitute selfemployment
income and are subject to the self-employment tax. See Chapter 10 of
Publication 334, Tax Guide for Small Business, for more information on selfemployment
tax and Publication 535, Business Expenses, for more information on
determining whether expenses are from a business activity carried on to make a profit.
Q-10: Does virtual currency received by an independent contractor for
performing services constitute self-employment income?
A-10: Yes. Generally, self-employment income includes all gross income derived by
an individual from any trade or business carried on by the individual as other than an
employee. Consequently, the fair market value of virtual currency received for services
performed as an independent contractor, measured in U.S. dollars as of the date of
receipt, constitutes self-employment income and is subject to the self-employment tax.
See FS-2007-18, April 2007, Business or Hobby? Answer Has Implications for
Deductions, for information on determining whether an activity is a business or a hobby.
Q-11: Does virtual currency paid by an employer as remuneration for services
constitute wages for employment tax purposes?
A-11: Yes. Generally, the medium in which remuneration for services is paid is
immaterial to the determination of whether the remuneration constitutes wages for
employment tax purposes. Consequently, the fair market value of virtual currency paid
as wages is subject to federal income tax withholding, Federal Insurance Contributions
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Act (FICA) tax, and Federal Unemployment Tax Act (FUTA) tax and must be reported
on Form W-2, Wage and Tax Statement. See Publication 15 (Circular E), Employer’s
Tax Guide, for information on the withholding, depositing, reporting, and paying of
employment taxes.
Q-12: Is a payment made using virtual currency subject to information reporting?
A-12: A payment made using virtual currency is subject to information reporting to the
same extent as any other payment made in property. For example, a person who in the
course of a trade or business makes a payment of fixed and determinable income using
virtual currency with a value of $600 or more to a U.S. non-exempt recipient in a taxable
year is required to report the payment to the IRS and to the payee. Examples of
payments of fixed and determinable income include rent, salaries, wages, premiums,
annuities, and compensation.
Q-13: Is a person who in the course of a trade or business makes a payment
using virtual currency worth $600 or more to an independent contractor for
performing services required to file an information return with the IRS?
A-13: Generally, a person who in the course of a trade or business makes a payment
of $600 or more in a taxable year to an independent contractor for the performance of
services is required to report that payment to the IRS and to the payee on Form 1099-
MISC, Miscellaneous Income. Payments of virtual currency required to be reported on
Form 1099-MISC should be reported using the fair market value of the virtual currency
in U.S. dollars as of the date of payment. The payment recipient may have income
even if the recipient does not receive a Form 1099-MISC. See the Instructions to Form
1099-MISC and the General Instructions for Certain Information Returns for more
information. For payments to non-U.S. persons, see Publication 515, Withholding of
Tax on Nonresident Aliens and Foreign Entities.
Q-14: Are payments made using virtual currency subject to backup withholding?
A-14: Payments made using virtual currency are subject to backup withholding to the
same extent as other payments made in property. Therefore, payors making reportable
payments using virtual currency must solicit a taxpayer identification number (TIN) from
the payee. The payor must backup withhold from the payment if a TIN is not obtained
prior to payment or if the payor receives notification from the IRS that backup
withholding is required. See Publication 1281, Backup Withholding for Missing and
Incorrect Name/TINs, for more information.
Q-15: Are there IRS information reporting requirements for a person who settles
payments made in virtual currency on behalf of merchants that accept virtual
currency from their customers?
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A-15: Yes, if certain requirements are met. In general, a third party that contracts with
a substantial number of unrelated merchants to settle payments between the merchants
and their customers is a third party settlement organization (TPSO). A TPSO is
required to report payments made to a merchant on a Form 1099-K, Payment Card and
Third Party Network Transactions, if, for the calendar year, both (1) the number of
transactions settled for the merchant exceeds 200, and (2) the gross amount of
payments made to the merchant exceeds $20,000. When completing Boxes 1, 3, and
5a-1 on the Form 1099-K, transactions where the TPSO settles payments made with
virtual currency are aggregated with transactions where the TPSO settles payments
made with real currency to determine the total amounts to be reported in those boxes.
When determining whether the transactions are reportable, the value of the virtual
currency is the fair market value of the virtual currency in U.S. dollars on the date of
payment.
See The Third Party Information Reporting Center, http://www.irs.gov/TaxProfessionals/Third-Party-Reporting-Information-Center,
for more information on
reporting transactions on Form 1099-K.
Q-16: Will taxpayers be subject to penalties for having treated a virtual currency
transaction in a manner that is inconsistent with this notice prior to March 25,
2014?
A-16: Taxpayers may be subject to penalties for failure to comply with tax laws. For
example, underpayments attributable to virtual currency transactions may be subject to
penalties, such as accuracy-related penalties under section 6662. In addition, failure to
timely or correctly report virtual currency transactions when required to do so may be
subject to information reporting penalties under section 6721 and 6722. However,
penalty relief may be available to taxpayers and persons required to file an information
return who are able to establish that the underpayment or failure to properly file
information returns is due to reasonable cause.

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