How do you deal with the thought about taxes

[Severian]

Do you think Bitcoin will change that? Will it put the governments on a diet?

No, but it will allow people the flexibility to opt out of various government confiscation schemes.

Also, my favorite quote in the Bible, since we're doing literary references:

"It is time to destroy all who have caused destruction on the earth."

Rev 11:18

[ktttn]

Freeganism prohibits me from ever touching or spending federal reserve notes, especially on the uselesa consumer goods you can get for free if you try.

By that, I assume you mean the smartphone you're using right now? You didn't get that for free, you bought it with a pretty pebble.

Citrine, if I remember correctly. The gift economy is a really neat idea.
It was less that I bought, and more like a gift, then I gifted the rock as a thank you.

You say poe-tay-toe, I say poe-tah-toe.

The interesting thing about the gift economy is that it works on the principle of consent, satisfaction and reciprocity

As does capitalism. Free trade.

Every time someone says capitalism relies on consent, I die a little.
Capital is accumulated wealth. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
The ideology that accumulating limitless personal wealth is the goal of trade is an ideology that is to blame for more than a few really bad things, namely the disparity between the elite and the rest of the earth- enforced by institutional violence, supported by taxes. The sum history of capitalism is the history of a group of men building a new mechanism to oppress and use to death, millions of real people by taking advantage of the fall of serfdom to convince folks that its possible to buy their priceless and irredeemable time and labor in exchange for wages.
/anticapitalism micro-rant.

[Severian]

I believe in having an obligation to paying your country in return for the high living standards we receive. At the end of the day, they can spend it on what they want.

You are in error.

We're obligated to contribute to the society we live in. We're not obligated to support the government we live under.

People committing the logical error of confusing "society" for "government" is a cause of much of the chaos and strife caused by government. Society is consent, government is coercion.

[Severian]

The sum history of capitalism is the history of a group of men building a new mechanism to oppress and use to death

That's the history of the State, not of free enterprise.

The State is the tool used by capitalists and communists (and other window dressing terms) as the means to oppress and kill the rest of us. Please don't confuse free enterprise and human ingenuity with the oppressive ends of the State.

[myrkul]

The interesting thing about the gift economy is that it works on the principle of consent, satisfaction and reciprocity

As does capitalism. Free trade.

Every time someone says capitalism relies on consent, I die a little.

Reading this book would be tantamount to suicide, then.

[ktttn]

The sum history of capitalism is the history of a group of men building a new mechanism to oppress and use to death

That's the history of the State, not of free enterprise.

The State is the tool used by capitalists and communists (and other window dressing terms) as the means to oppress and kill the rest of us. Please don't confuse free enterprise and human ingenuity with the oppressive ends of the State.

Totally agreed. Semantics and the language of words is relative.
Free enterprise decoupled from state protection is another term for human ingenuity.
Capitalism proper requires that masses of people are physically kept by the threat of tax funded violence out of control of the means of production. Statism both complicates in terms of legislation and allows for capitalists to centralize ower into their own hands.
Pardon the seemingly communist rhetoric. Anarchists used those terms too. State Communism in practice is an even more violent evolution of capitalism.
With bitcoin, the means of production is anyone, by hook or crook, able to get their hands on a mineworthy computer.

[myrkul]

Capitalism proper requires that masses of people are physically kept by the threat of tax funded violence out of control of the means of production.

Wut?

Capitalism is defined as a social and economic system where capital assets are owned and controlled by private persons, where labor is purchased for money wages, capital gains accrue to private owners, and the price mechanism is utilized to allocate capital goods between uses.

No mention of "tax-funded violence." In fact, it seems that your definition of capitalism is actually socialism:

Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy.

"Social ownership," as in, the State.

[Malawi]

Ah - How I'd like to have a black/white worldview. Less thinking less strife.

[Severian]

Ah - How I'd like to have a black/white worldview. Less thinking less strife.

If one is in favor of coercion, the world needs to be gray in order to accommodate the opinion.

[ktttn]

Capitalism proper requires that masses of people are physically kept by the threat of tax funded violence out of control of the means of production.

Wut?

Capitalism is defined as a social and economic system where capital assets are owned and controlled by private persons, where labor is purchased for money wages, capital gains accrue to private owners, and the price mechanism is utilized to allocate capital goods between uses.

No mention of "tax-funded violence." In fact, it seems that your definition of capitalism is actually socialism:

Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy.

"Social ownership," as in, the State.

Factory takeover? Riot cops.
Attempt to overthrow a slaveowning profiteer? Millitary bloodbath.
Strikes? Picket lines? More riot cops or at least arrests and brutality.
Protesting company policy? Hundreds of riot cops.
Your source is biased and wrong imo.
Ever been on the wrong side of a line of riot cops?
Ever talk to the Chief executive officer of exxon or shell, monsanto or any not hypothetical capitalist?
Are you a 'sucessful' capitalist? Have you ever lived on or under the wages capitalists enforce?
Am I derailing the thread, or being antagonized?

[CryptoJunky]

Let's talk Bitcoin had a pretty good segment about this in episode 8. While Bitcoin isn't entirely anonymous, at the moment it can be tough to tie specific addresses to specific people. I've heard some people argue that mining could be considered earned income and should be accounted for as such, and that appreciation of Bitcoin versus fiat should be declared as capital gains.

It's still a grey area at the moment though.

[mmeijeri]

Factory takeover? Riot cops.

A factory takeover involves violence or the threat of violence. In France today it sometimes even involves taking the management hostage. It is totally justifiable to resist that violence, the occupiers are the initiators of coercion.

Attempt to overthrow a slaveowning profiteer? Millitary bloodbath.

Slave ownership is clearly coercion and it is clearly right to resist it.

Strikes? Picket lines? More riot cops or at least arrests and brutality.

Strikes mean breaking a contractual promise. As a contractor, you wouldn't get away with it. People should be free not to extend their contracts, or terminate them with due notice if that's what's agreed in their contracts, but not to strike and break their contracts. Similarly, companies should be free to fire those who strike, evict them from the premises, and to hire strike breakers. Those who go on strike initiate the violence.

Picket lines are meant to intimidate fellow workers and management and involve barely hidden threats of violence.

[Malawi]

Ah - How I'd like to have a black/white worldview. Less thinking less strife.

If one is in favor of coercion, the world needs to be gray in order to accommodate the opinion.

In many nuances though ;-)

[Elwar]

Capital is accumulated wealth.

If you cut my grass and I promise you a meal that weekend as a thank you for a good job, you have just accumulated wealth.

It is mutual consent. If you cut 7 lawns and have a meal each day the next week you have accumulated wealth.

If instead of the promise of a meal, I give you money that is the equivalent of a meal which you then hold onto until you are hungry, you have just accumulated wealth. It is the same thing. The voluntary exchange of goods and services.

If you have accumulated knowledge and are the only person in the city that knows how to fix my car I choose between having no car or rewarding you properly for fixing it. I promise 1 meal a week for a month (or the equivalent monetary value).

If I have a computer system that needs someone to fix the database and you have accumulated enough knowledge to the point where you can fix it, I decide whether or not to have a broken computer system or reward you properly for fixing it. I promise 1 meal a week for a year in exchange for a week of your time dedicated to fixing it. Or more simply, I pay you enough money to afford 1 meal a week for a year. That is accumulated wealth.

All of these instances rely upon consent between the two individuals. If you do not want to do it, then you do not have to. If I do not want you to do the job, I do not have to ask you to do it.

[myrkul]

Factory takeover? Riot cops.

You mean the attempted armed robbery, and possible murder of a factory owner?

Attempt to overthrow a slaveowning profiteer? Millitary bloodbath.

People are not property. We're on the same side here.

Strikes? Picket lines? More riot cops or at least arrests and brutality.

Not without a State. I wouldn't try to violently stop any strike-breakers, though.

Protesting company policy? Hundreds of riot cops.

Not without a State.

Your source is biased and wrong imo.

There's no chance in hell you've read Man, Economy, and State in the time since I gave you the link. I read Proudhon, and Marx. Least you could do is give Rothbard a shot.

Ever been on the wrong side of a line of riot cops?

AnCaps don't tend to get violent enough to bring out Riot cops. We do get arrested pretty frequently, though.

Ever talk to the Chief executive officer of exxon or shell, monsanto or any not hypothetical capitalist?

You're talking to one now.

Are you a 'sucessful' capitalist? Have you ever lived on or under the wages capitalists enforce?

In order: moderately, and yes. And they don't enforce those wages, sweetheart. That's the market. The only enforcement is the minimum wage. And that prices people out of the marketplace entirely.

Now, I'm done derailing this thread. If you'd like an explanation of free-market capitalism, I will be glad to answer any questions you have, and explain that capitalism is not your enemy, and in fact, both you and I share the same enemy.

In another thread.

[TimJBenham]

I don't pay taxes... I'm net receiver...

Also known as a dependent slave. No wonder you're so pro-State.

How do you know he is not an anarchist? if everyone was a net receiver the state would collapse.

[myrkul]

I don't pay taxes... I'm net receiver...

Also known as a dependent slave. No wonder you're so pro-State.

How do you know he is not an anarchist? if everyone was a net receiver the state would collapse.

Because he's spoken in defense of the State, before, in other threads.

[jjdub7]

To answer your question, I don't really feel much. I honestly don't mind doing so, I believe in having an obligation to paying your country in return for the high living standards we receive. At the end of the day, they can spend it on what they want.

Easy enough for you to say, Australia's #13 in military expenditures. Most of your money actually goes to your country's upkeep. Most of ours goes to blowing up bridges (and then rebuilding them) on the other side of the planet, while our bridges rot out from underneath us. To say nothing of the human cost.

This hits the nail on the head.  End of story.

[ktttn]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=210802.new#new
Capitalism. (Please let this be the correct link...)

[madmadmax]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=210802.new#new
Capitalism. (Please let this be the correct link...)

Someone has opened a thread about my thread? I feel honored