why wouldnt a government create its own asic to 51% bitcoin?

[deisik]

These are just rumors

Well, those might not be quite rumors but rather speculations by some people allegedly close to Putin but regardless, it makes no sense for Russia to mine Bitcoin and compete with China (which would be a losing battle anyway). If anything, Russia would rather try to push their own crypto, but personally, I believe in neither possibility. In other words, these are most likely just empty talks

You do have a point though on which we cant really be sure if those informations are legit or not but thinking of that theres a competition between countries i would like to know what would be the goal if they won such battle? Its a senseless thing to think off that they would fight for the spot on having the biggest mining operations. Most likely maybe they would create their own coin, but well who knows because no one do really have an idea on whats on their minds

I can tell you that with certainty

Personal profits are on their minds exclusively. They don't care for Bitcoin, blockchain, or whatever, all what they are actually looking for is money which they could receive as budget financing if they successfully push this idea into the budget plan for the next few years. Whether it will bring anything of substance doesn't in the least interest these dudes. All the buzz words they say with such a serious tone and pompous view are said entirely with this purpose in mind

[vapourminer]

I can tell you that with certainty

Personal profits are on their minds exclusively. They don't care for Bitcoin, blockchain, or whatever, all what they are actually looking for is money which they could receive as budget financing if they successfully push this idea into the budget plan for the next few years. Whether it will bring anything of substance doesn't in the least interest these dudes. All the buzz words they say with such a serious tone and pompous view are said entirely with this purpose in mind

i must of missed this rumor.. could you clarify or link to it?

you mean russian government wants to mine for itself? ie budget it out (the mining farm) and all profits go to the government?

wonder if they would make it illegal for russians to mine for themselves or use others pools. mine to the russian pool or else..

[DooMAD]

I can tell you that with certainty

Personal profits are on their minds exclusively. They don't care for Bitcoin, blockchain, or whatever, all what they are actually looking for is money which they could receive as budget financing if they successfully push this idea into the budget plan for the next few years. Whether it will bring anything of substance doesn't in the least interest these dudes. All the buzz words they say with such a serious tone and pompous view are said entirely with this purpose in mind

i must of missed this rumor.. could you clarify or link to it?

you mean russian government wants to mine for itself? ie budget it out (the mining farm) and all profits go to the government?

wonder if they would make it illegal for russians to mine for themselves or use others pools. mine to the russian pool or else..

No, no, there have been some crossed wires here.  The claim is that deisik knows with certainty that the Russian government want to make profit (which is a fair assumption, I suppose).  However, deisik doesn't know with certainty how they plan on achieving that goal, but suspects it's not going to be Bitcoin.  It sounds as though deisik is saying they could conceivably allocate some of their fiat budget to investigating the possibilities and, even if nothing came of it, that research money in and of itself would still be profitable for someone (not that they necessarily are doing that research, just that they could).  

Even if there were a government planning on getting involved with large-scale mining operations, which seems unlikely to begin with, announcing such a project publicly would be a likelihood even more remote.  There isn't any real profit in a 51% attack, which is probably why no governments have attempted it.  But someone somewhere is probably spending a boatload of money in research to learn that obvious-to-us fact the hard way.

[vapourminer]

No, no, there have been some crossed wires here.  The claim is that deisik knows with certainty that the Russian government want to make profit (which is a fair assumption, I suppose).  However, deisik doesn't know with certainty how they plan on achieving that goal, but suspects it's not going to be Bitcoin.  It sounds as though deisik is saying they could conceivably allocate some of their fiat budget to investigating the possibilities and, even if nothing came of it, that research money in and of itself would still be profitable for someone (not that they necessarily are doing that research, just that they could).  

Even if there were a government planning on getting involved with large-scale mining operations, which seems unlikely to begin with, announcing such a project publicly would be a likelihood even more remote.  There isn't any real profit in a 51% attack, which is probably why no governments have attempted it.  But someone somewhere is probably spending a boatload of money in research to learn that obvious-to-us fact the hard way.

ah thanks for the correction.

as for 51% attacking (my premise) there is not real profit, its to control and kill it. would cost scads of money but what is money to a government? just print more up to kill btc and then your fiat is safe again.

[BillyBobZorton]

No, no, there have been some crossed wires here.  The claim is that deisik knows with certainty that the Russian government want to make profit (which is a fair assumption, I suppose).  However, deisik doesn't know with certainty how they plan on achieving that goal, but suspects it's not going to be Bitcoin.  It sounds as though deisik is saying they could conceivably allocate some of their fiat budget to investigating the possibilities and, even if nothing came of it, that research money in and of itself would still be profitable for someone (not that they necessarily are doing that research, just that they could).  

Even if there were a government planning on getting involved with large-scale mining operations, which seems unlikely to begin with, announcing such a project publicly would be a likelihood even more remote.  There isn't any real profit in a 51% attack, which is probably why no governments have attempted it.  But someone somewhere is probably spending a boatload of money in research to learn that obvious-to-us fact the hard way.

ah thanks for the correction.

as for 51% attacking (my premise) there is not real profit, its to control and kill it. would cost scads of money but what is money to a government? just print more up to kill btc and then your fiat is safe again.

If they raise inflation rates to attack BTC it would have an impact on the economy too, and they would have to explain people about it. But yeah it's a problem, governments could spend billions in propaganda and promote their forks as well bribing everyone up, so it's not only a potential 51% government funded mining operation attack, but malicious hard forks too (I suspect all of these bigger block hardforks are promoted by certain governments)

[deisik]

I can tell you that with certainty

Personal profits are on their minds exclusively. They don't care for Bitcoin, blockchain, or whatever, all what they are actually looking for is money which they could receive as budget financing if they successfully push this idea into the budget plan for the next few years. Whether it will bring anything of substance doesn't in the least interest these dudes. All the buzz words they say with such a serious tone and pompous view are said entirely with this purpose in mind

i must of missed this rumor.. could you clarify or link to it?

you mean russian government wants to mine for itself? ie budget it out (the mining farm) and all profits go to the government?

wonder if they would make it illegal for russians to mine for themselves or use others pools. mine to the russian pool or else..

I'm curious how you could miss this thread

There is also an ongoing discussion of the matter in the Russian section of the forum, and you can find it here, but you are on your own with translation. I just expressed the consensus that built up among the posters in that thread and what I myself feel like the most probable outcome of such an effort. Basically, this is how all such projects typically end up, i.e. with tax payer's money spent mostly in vain (but someone certainly ending up rich and richer)

No, no, there have been some crossed wires here.  The claim is that deisik knows with certainty that the Russian government want to make profit (which is a fair assumption, I suppose).  However, deisik doesn't know with certainty how they plan on achieving that goal, but suspects it's not going to be Bitcoin. It sounds as though deisik is saying they could conceivably allocate some of their fiat budget to investigating the possibilities and, even if nothing came of it, that research money in and of itself would still be profitable for someone (not that they necessarily are doing that research, just that they could)

That seems to be the whole point, i.e. nothing will ever come out of it

[vapourminer]

I'm curious how you could miss this thread

easy: real life 

thanks for the link ill read it through.

[deisik]

If they raise inflation rates to attack BTC it would have an impact on the economy too, and they would have to explain people about it. But yeah it's a problem, governments could spend billions in propaganda and promote their forks as well bribing everyone up, so it's not only a potential 51% government funded mining operation attack, but malicious hard forks too (I suspect all of these bigger block hardforks are promoted by certain governments)

I remember this topic had already been discussed in the past

In fact, the money to be printed won't necessarily raise the inflation rates. The US government ran two (or even three) rounds of quantitative easing with inflation still being exceptionally low. How come? Because the newly printed money never entered the real economy. It was used mostly to extinguish the bad debts that came about from subprime loans which caused the subprime mortgage crisis in the US in 2008. The money itself was sterilized by financial and stock markets, so the inflation was kept on a tight rein and at its lowest levels. Basically the same would happen to money printed to kill or destroy some coin (if it ever came to that)

[kokojie]

If they raise inflation rates to attack BTC it would have an impact on the economy too, and they would have to explain people about it. But yeah it's a problem, governments could spend billions in propaganda and promote their forks as well bribing everyone up, so it's not only a potential 51% government funded mining operation attack, but malicious hard forks too (I suspect all of these bigger block hardforks are promoted by certain governments)

I remember this topic had already been discussed in the past

In fact, the money to be printed won't necessarily raise the inflation rates. The US government ran two (or even three) rounds of quantitative easing with inflation still being exceptionally low. How come? Because the newly printed money never entered the real economy. It was used mostly to extinguish the bad debts that came about from subprime loans which caused the subprime mortgage crisis in the US in 2008. The money itself was sterilized by financial and stock markets, so the inflation was kept on a tight rein and at its lowest levels. Basically the same would happen to money printed to kill or destroy some coin (if it ever came to that)

No, newly printed money will enter the real economy, just not immediately. Otherwise, where do you think the inflation come from? If all newly printed money does not enter the economy, then there should be deflation, not inflation. Newly printed money enter the economy in a gradual and controlled fashion, this is the job of central banks.