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Author Topic: SHA-256 (fixed: maybe) hacked, man gets away with 7 blocks in 10 minutes  (Read 8390 times)
imperi
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June 22, 2011, 02:31:20 AM
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Proof is here. Clearly the system is broken. Image is from http://www.bitcoinmonitor.com/.
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ElectroGeek007
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June 22, 2011, 02:36:20 AM
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Are you sure it is the same person/address? AFAIK, this could happen at any time due to the nature of the hashing process, it just usually doesn't...

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June 22, 2011, 02:36:46 AM
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You clearly have no idea how statistics work do you huh?

Hey I bet you'll probably also believe Derren Brown figured out how to throw heads 10 times in a row? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1uJD1O3L08

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imperi
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June 22, 2011, 02:37:49 AM
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Are you sure it is the same person/address? AFAIK, this could happen at any time due to the nature of the hashing process, it just usually doesn't...

7 in a row though, when the average time between is 10 minutes? The chance of it happening randomly is infinitesimal. Someone is clearly gaming the system somehow.
relmeas
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June 22, 2011, 02:40:31 AM
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you don't have to break (=find collision) it entirely, just a few first bytes Smiley

i always thought the proof of work bitcoin uses is kind of weird...
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June 22, 2011, 02:41:59 AM
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clearly you fail
TraderTimm
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June 22, 2011, 02:42:33 AM
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Proof is here. Clearly the system is broken. Image is from http://www.bitcoinmonitor.com/.

I've seen clusters like these before. I never started an alarmist thread claiming 'hacks' though, because I understand gaussian distributions and probability.

Time for a statistics refresher course, imperi.

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
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June 22, 2011, 02:42:43 AM
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clearly you fail

Why him?

unbuttered_toast
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June 22, 2011, 02:45:43 AM
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If I had special hashing powers, I'd distribute my blocks around different places, to different accounts, so nobody noticed.  Cool
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June 22, 2011, 02:47:49 AM
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Imperi, I am Disappoint.

Where's the MS paint line? It's not as believable without the line.

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June 22, 2011, 02:50:08 AM
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Why only 7??? He should get 777 blocks if it was indeed hacked.

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June 22, 2011, 02:51:43 AM
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Are you sure it is the same person/address? AFAIK, this could happen at any time due to the nature of the hashing process, it just usually doesn't...

7 in a row though, when the average time between is 10 minutes? The chance of it happening randomly is infinitesimal. Someone is clearly gaming the system somehow.

No.  It's statistics.  We've been at it 2 years, and there's gargantuan amounts of processing power behind this.  It was bound to happen eventually.

you don't have to break (=find collision) it entirely, just a few first bytes Smiley

i always thought the proof of work bitcoin uses is kind of weird...

Finding a collision isn't breaking SHA256.  Breaking SHA256 (or at least, any manner of breaking that would matter to us) is finding a FAST and EFFICIENT way to find a collision, other than brute forcing.  There is no way to do this that is currently known, and it's stood up to many many cryptographic tests and analysis, people trying to hack it for years.

Against my better judgement... 1ADjszXMSRuAUjyy3ShFRy54SyRVrNDgDc
imperi
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June 22, 2011, 02:52:57 AM
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No.  It's statistics.  We've been at it 2 years, and there's gargantuan amounts of processing power behind this.  It was bound to happen eventually.


Eventually = right after a series of high profile hacks. Interesting.
relmeas
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June 22, 2011, 02:55:06 AM
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Why only 7??? He should get 777 blocks if it was indeed hacked.

either he wants to milk it a bit longer or his algorithm is not 100% sha256 hack but considerably more efficient than brute force used by conventional miners. maybe some statistical methods or something, i dont know but its not proven to be impossible afaik (or gimme a link pls)
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June 22, 2011, 02:55:15 AM
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imperi, stop trolling.
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June 22, 2011, 02:57:49 AM
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No.  It's statistics.  We've been at it 2 years, and there's gargantuan amounts of processing power behind this.  It was bound to happen eventually.


Eventually = right after a series of high profile hacks. Interesting.

Hrm, a huge amount of publicity bringing some heavy computing power to the stage, increasing the odds of this happening?  Interesting.

Against my better judgement... 1ADjszXMSRuAUjyy3ShFRy54SyRVrNDgDc
relmeas
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June 22, 2011, 02:57:58 AM
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Finding a collision isn't breaking SHA256.  Breaking SHA256 (or at least, any manner of breaking that would matter to us) is finding a FAST and EFFICIENT way to find a collision, other than brute forcing.  There is no way to do this that is currently known, and it's stood up to many many cryptographic tests and analysis, people trying to hack it for years.

well its different when you just work for your guaranteed wages and when there is a instant free big money floating, people could improve in their skills considerably with the right motivation.

However this is most probably a supercomputer working for a short time. Or more probably a good luck.
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June 22, 2011, 03:03:45 AM
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If I had special hashing powers, I'd distribute my blocks around different places, to different accounts, so nobody noticed.  Cool

Man, that would be such a waste. If I had special hashing powers, I'd make hash browns all over the place. I'd make a bed out of them and then I could wake up in the middle of the night and snack without even leaving my nice warm bed. Oh man that's always been my dream.

Also, I'd make a car out of corned beef hash so I could drive down the road and make people hungry, because obviously the motor would use hash as fuel and the exhaust would smell good or something. I haven't worked out the specifics. I was thinking of making a plane out of hash, but it would obviously be too heavy. I would actually make two cars with drivers carved from hash and have them wreck at high speeds and then pretend I was just an innocent bystander. I'd run over after the crash and say "Oh god it's a mess. Meat strewn everywhere!" and start eating the wreckage.

I'd use my powers to create a secret closet full of hashish. Then I'd sell it, I guess, and buy something that I couldn't make with my hash powers, like pancakes.

Hmm. The hash marks would be a problem though, but I could live with that fault if I did truly have incredible hashing powers. I'd just buy new underwear every day with my hashish money.

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TraderTimm
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June 22, 2011, 03:05:26 AM
 #19

Okay, I'll bite on the whole theory of "OMG HACKED" for a second. (And why it is wrong.)

Lets say for sake of theoretical argument it is true.

This is what I would do if I was some evil "Hax0r Do0d" that could produce blocks at will:

Strategy 1:
 
Stealth, produce blocks within a given distribution, probably driven by number generator that guarantees statistical analysis won't turn up an anomaly. Quietly wait while my blocks are verified, cue up 50btc orders on a few different exchanges and pull my funds into several different accounts. Rinse, repeat.

Strategy 2: (Which fits with the 'OMG HAX' part of this thread.)

Produce as many blocks as possible in a mad rush not only to authenticate what I'm already generating - but to stuff it down the throat of a few exchanges to cash out as soon as possible. Probability of detection - < HIGH >. Possibility of being caught and having my bitcoins 'stuck' at an exchange before I can flee - < HIGH >.

So, don't sweat the clusters.

Seriously.

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
GeniuSxBoY
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June 22, 2011, 03:13:26 AM
 #20

Didn't japan just launch a computer that can do a quadrillion flops/sec?
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