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Author Topic: Best platform for a new security?  (Read 2455 times)
human
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May 18, 2013, 12:38:41 PM
 #1

Hi,

There are already a lot of different platforms for creating new securities. To name a few:

https://btct.co/
www.litecoinglobal.com
Bitfunder
Cryptostocks
MPex
Havelock
[...]?

What is the best platform to launch a new security right now?
How much does it cost?
How do they all belong together?

Lets compile a list!

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May 18, 2013, 12:45:15 PM
 #2

As an asset issuer on BitFunder, I quite like it Smiley

btct.co: apply, be reviewed by moderators
litecoinglobal: same as btct.co, litecoin only
bitfunder: apply to Ukto/Ukyo
cryptostocks: dead, don't bother
MPex: get in touch with mp
Havelock: get in touch with them, they only offer their own / endorsed assets.

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May 18, 2013, 01:54:01 PM
 #3

Litecoinglobal -> Interesting for Litecoin based assets
Cryptostocks -> Not secure (got hacked), low trading volume (except their own stock), BTCT and Bitfunder have more features and better security -> only use them for Devcoin (Fun)assets
MPex -> Lost most of its trading volume (stocks) -> going down

I think you only need to look into BTCT.co and Bitfunder.
A short comparison:
Security:
- Bitfunder: 2FA
- BTCT.co: 2FA, Yubikey Support, PIN, Manual withdrawals (more Bitcoins are stored in the cold wallet)
Backups:
- Bitfunder: Public asset list
- BTCT.co: Automated backups via E-Mail, CSV download
API:
- Bitfunder: None
- BTCT.co: JSON API, OAuth API
Asset creation:
- Bitfunder: Easy approval by Ukyo, Fee Huh
- BTCT.co: Community based approval (stricter than Ukyo), Fee 5 BTC
Trading Fees:
- Bitfunder: 1-0.5% for buyer
- BTCT.co: 0.2-0.25% for buyer and seller
Feautures:
- Bitfunder: DRIP, Options trading, WebSocket
- BTCT.co: DRIP, Options trading, Android App, Motion system, Public portfolios

It is hard to say on which platform an asset would generate more trading volume, but TAT.ASICMINER launched simultaneously on both platforms and sold so far 34,000 shares on BTCT.co and 9,500 on Bitfunder.

*DRIP =  Dividend reinvestment program
*2FA =  2-Factor authentication

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May 18, 2013, 03:28:35 PM
 #4

MPex -> Lost most of its trading volume (stocks) -> going down

Still more trade than the sum of all others, for one.

The fact that it won't list bullshit "assets" (such as the Asciminer passthroughs) isn't really a valid objection. GLBSE listed Pirate and that was the end of it, even if the entire mess allowed it to climb to something like 1/3 of MPEx' volume for a few months back in 2012. Take the am-pt volume away and MPEx has a solid 90% of all Bitcoin financials.

There is of course the issue that poor people can't get in directly (and if you discount the MPEx pt's out of the remainder of the above there's really very little left). This readily results in those same poor people misrepresenting the reality of the matter into more palatable terms, such as the quoted. This attempted misrepresentation has been going on for about two years now, with no visible deleterious effects for MPEx (even if the names that keep pushing it keep changing, so it'd stand to reason that they slowly get fleeced and disappear, only to be replaced by new, and equally clueless, "playas").

As explained back in January

It's a simple point of competition for finite resources. This is not quite as visible in fiat, because in fiat bs gov'ts can create and do create fake money to prop up wasteful/pointless paraeconomic ventures run by the "right people", which is just another way of saying "popular" (which is, of course, the wrong game to play if you aim for prosperity).

In BTC however, where resources are absolutely finite, there will only be so much BTC available for investment at any given time. This BTC will be allocated to the available investments somehow. Part of it will be allocated by idiots, on paraeconomic criteria like "we don't like MPEx". Part of it will be allocated economically. As time goes on the share available to the idiots to allocate as they see fit dwindles, and the share available to the rational players increases. Since human behavior is reinforced by success and (usually, except in the case of a really limited pile of hardcore idiots) discouraged by failure, the flow is even faster as individual people realize they are being part of the idiot group and jump ship.

Soon enough the situation reaches equilibrium, which is pretty much where we're at. In short, the beauty of economy is that it works.

None of this is to mean MPEx is perfect, by any means. That's not the point at all. It just means MPEx is the standard, and because stock exchanges are fundamentally a convergent, naturally standardizing market it also means the accretion trend will continue, exactly in the same way and fundamentally for the same reasons Bitcoin grows against fiat currencies.

It's by now impractical for any serious company contemplating being listed in BTC to forego the significant capital available on MPEx in order to favor a different venue (in fact, the cost of doing so can be calculated on the basis of the volume difference, and is in any case significant) for a variety of reasons, and certainly such an attempt would imply the modification of said company to include "being an exchange", which requires rare and valuable skills (programming notably NOT being one of them) and other human capital. Such an effort necessarily spells a movement away from said corp's core mission, whatever it may be (*).

A willingness to move away from the core mission, a cavalier attitude towards incurring costs and foregoing benefits all work together to paint a very unflattering picture in the eye of the discerning investor (If these people have any confidence in their business, why are they working on moving away from it to do something else? If they have the capital to pursue reinventing the wheel, why do they need my investment? If they're not interested in cashing in now why should I expect they ever will get my shares dividends?) and rapidly the convergence effects become very strong indeed.

In short: if you're a noob with no clue you have no chance making it on MPEx. If you don't want to sign a contract and in general don't plan on being on the level you have no chance making it on MPEx. If you plan on running some nonsense a la HYIP you have no chance making it on MPEx.

If on the other hand you have a legitimate business you have no chance making it outside of MPEx. This is a point of fact, not a point of argument: there have been bet sites coming and going for about two years. Once one listed on MPEx that was the end of that market, BitBet now dominates it. Same with dice games, same with everything else: kids can play around and pretend they're doing things until the adult exchange lists some adults. After that it's nighty night Gracie.

Nothing wrong with this, either.

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May 18, 2013, 05:25:23 PM
 #5

I agree with btcash. MPEx can basicly be ignored, except you want your stock to be traded almost privately.

I'm on both btct and ltc-global and quite happy, but I'm just a trader, so can't tell you how it is as an issuer.
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May 18, 2013, 06:08:01 PM
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MPex -> Lost most of its trading volume (stocks) -> going down

Still more trade than the sum of all others, for one.

The fact that it won't list bullshit "assets" (such as the Asciminer passthroughs) isn't really a valid objection.

...blah blah blah...

If on the other hand you have a legitimate business you have no chance making it outside of MPEx. This is a point of fact, not a point of argument: there have been bet sites coming and going for about two years. Once one listed on MPEx that was the end of that market, BitBet now dominates it. Same with dice games, same with everything else: kids can play around and pretend they're doing things until the adult exchange lists some adults...

Sounds like I should get myself listed on MPEx so I can live forever and dominate over everyone else that didn't list themselves there.

I hope you could hear me all the way up there on your high horse. If not I'll be glad to get a step-ladder and/or a megaphone.
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May 18, 2013, 06:52:56 PM
 #7

I agree with

Who are you again?

Sounds like I should get myself listed on MPEx so I can live forever and dominate over everyone else that didn't list themselves there.

I hope you could hear me all the way up there on your high horse. If not I'll be glad to get a step-ladder and/or a megaphone.

I don't think listing means what you think it does. Also reading probably isn't quite as painful and difficult as you make it out to be.

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May 18, 2013, 10:56:18 PM
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Yeah and you are more credible on this topic.
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May 18, 2013, 10:57:30 PM
 #9

Trading Fees:
- Bitfunder: 1-0.5% for buyer
- BTCT.co: 0.2-0.25% for buyer and seller

Buys on BitFunder are free - fees are only incurred when selling.
BTCT charges 0.2-0.25% for a buy and 0.2-0.25% for a sell, so a buy and sell would add up to 0.4-0.5%.
BTCT also charges fees for BTC withdrawal while BitFunder does not.

BitFunder also requires that any BTC in/out go through an extra layer service called WeExchange while BTCT allows direct deposit/withdrawal of BTC. Some argue that the WeExchange service is an extra hassle, while some say it provides an extra layer of protection (if your BitFunder account is hacked then the only way for BTC to get withdrawn is through WeExchange).

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May 18, 2013, 11:05:15 PM
 #10

Havelock is really fantastic.
BTC-TC is also top-notch in my experience.

If you can list on two securities, that would probably be best case scenario!
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May 18, 2013, 11:33:25 PM
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Whatever you say about MPEx, the fact is that they have 1000 BTC average daily volume on trading shares of companies that chosen to be listed there. That is something. When you look at BitFunder and BTCT and put aside all passthroughs, you will find ~40 BTC daily volume.

But that doesn't mean that the two latter don't have volume. BitFunder had almost 500 BTC ASICMINER PTs traded in the last 24h and BTCT traded 1270 BTC of ASICMINER PTs. So they have enough people willing to trade bitcoins for shares. It's not demand from traders what's missing on these exchanges but supply of companies. No company originally listed on these exchanges actually makes any significant volume. It's all ASICMINER.

Considering this, if your company is going to be truly remarkable, you will probably do well on any of these three exchanges, as all of them have traders making good volume. But considering past performance of companies originally listed on these exchanges, getting listed on MPEx might be read as a recommendation and give traders some more confidence for your company and that will make your success a little bit easier.

And you don't need to worry about MPEx barrier of entry for new traders - if you're be successful, someone will launch passthroughs on the other exchanges. S.DICE PTs on BTCT+BitFunder make half of S.DICE's MPEx volume.

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May 19, 2013, 12:08:31 AM
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Whatever you say about MPEx, the fact is that they have 1000 BTC average daily volume on trading shares of companies that chosen to be listed there. That is something. When you look at BitFunder and BTCT and put aside all passthroughs, you will find ~40 BTC daily volume.

But that doesn't mean that the two latter don't have volume. BitFunder had almost 500 BTC ASICMINER PTs traded in the last 24h and BTCT traded 1270 BTC of ASICMINER PTs. So they have enough people willing to trade bitcoins for shares. It's not demand from traders what's missing on these exchanges but supply of companies. No company originally listed on these exchanges actually makes any significant volume. It's all ASICMINER.

Considering this, if your company is going to be truly remarkable, you will probably do well on any of these three exchanges, as all of them have traders making good volume. But considering past performance of companies originally listed on these exchanges, getting listed on MPEx might be read as a recommendation and give traders some more confidence for your company and that will make your success a little bit easier.

And you don't need to worry about MPEx barrier of entry for new traders - if you're be successful, someone will launch passthroughs on the other exchanges. S.DICE PTs on BTCT+BitFunder make half of S.DICE's MPEx volume.

Dude who are you. I wasn't even aware balanced posts are allowed on Bitcoin Talk. Is this some timewarp or something?!

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May 19, 2013, 12:14:13 AM
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I'd avoid MPEX like the plague. Here's some quotes from their representatives:

Quote
Nobody counts what niggers think, and nobody counts what idiots think.

Quote
One’s not born black. One becomes black, through interaction. Mostly with their black parents, of course, but nevertheless, kids not being parented anymore by their parents (but the tv, records, etc) results in plenty of white skinned black people. It is certainly NOT improper to link the historical failure of the fenotype to the fenotype. So, any discussion of black people can not avoid the fact that they sucked. This is a fact. It is their own, proper but impersonal responsibility. It is on their head.

Quote
For the record, a boatload of neckbeards doesn't pay for one single financier. This because tech people actually are humanly inferior to money people. They're less of a person.

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May 19, 2013, 12:18:46 AM
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Dude who are you. I wasn't even aware balanced posts are allowed on Bitcoin Talk. Is this some timewarp or something?!

I'm sorry, I'm new here and don't know all the rules yet. Might try to improve!

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May 19, 2013, 12:25:08 AM
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Someone will launch multiple PTs even. Like, take a look, I'm not sure why they were even approved because it splits liquidity.

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May 19, 2013, 10:22:55 AM
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Someone will launch multiple PTs even. Like, take a look, I'm not sure why they were even approved because it splits liquidity.

It's a free Bitcoin, why'd anyone need approval?

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May 20, 2013, 07:36:53 AM
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It's by now impractical for any serious company contemplating being listed in BTC to forego the significant capital available on MPEx in order to favor a different venue...

There are too many examples I could bring up which would inform a more restrained enthusiasm. But there's no point in bringing them up if you're wrong on logical grounds;

If on the other hand you have a legitimate business you have no chance making it outside of MPEx. This is a point of fact, not a point of argument: there have been bet sites coming and going for about two years. Once one listed on MPEx that was the end of that market, BitBet now dominates it. Same with dice games, same with everything else: kids can play around and pretend they're doing things until the adult exchange lists some adults.

are you really claiming that one of the primary reasons BitBet was successful is because it listed on MPEX?
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May 20, 2013, 09:12:12 AM
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are you really claiming that one of the primary reasons BitBet was successful is because it listed on MPEX?

You're rather slow aren't you.

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