Nicehash vs Buying Coins vs Mining

[themonkii]

Hey guys!

I hope someone can shed some light on this for me. I'm mining atm with a small farm, but I'd like to expand a bit.
What are your thoughts on NiceHash?
More specifically - What is the benefit to using Nicehash versus just buying the coins on the market? For instance - If I wanted $3000 worth of Decred, I could either go to an exchange and buy it w bitcoin/ether or I could put that $3000 into Nicehash and buy hashing power, or I could further invest that $3000 into my operation and build a rig to mine that specific coin.

Thoughts, please

[cryptofriendz]

I've just compared switched my small farm (5 Gh/s Eth) to Nicehash and I'm not happy at all. While the idea of just mining the most profitable algo is compelling, there are a few challenges:

* It doesn't use the best/most efficient miner (often you get better rates with modded miners targeted to your HW)
* OC settings are incredibly hard for multi-algo, wich means you need to go subtle / generalized OC and loose a couple Mh/s there too
* Fees are too high (its just too high)

I switched back to Signatum mining using ccminer for now, still exploring better mining options.

Buying coins is a safe choice and the most passive option so you don't invest your time. If you put a number behind that its the most profitable I assume. While I'm in for the long game and its exciting to figure out new stuff I would have been better of investing the money just into BTC or ETH.

[ibinsad]

I've just compared switched my small farm (5 Gh/s Eth) to Nicehash and I'm not happy at all. While the idea of just mining the most profitable algo is compelling, there are a few challenges:

* It doesn't use the best/most efficient miner (often you get better rates with modded miners targeted to your HW)
* OC settings are incredibly hard for multi-algo, wich means you need to go subtle / generalized OC and loose a couple Mh/s there too
* Fees are too high (its just too high)

I switched back to Signatum mining using ccminer for now, still exploring better mining options.

Buying coins is a safe choice and the most passive option so you don't invest your time. If you put a number behind that its the most profitable I assume. While I'm in for the long game and its exciting to figure out new stuff I would have been better of investing the money just into BTC or ETH.

It seems signatum now is equal to nicehash but with nicehash you get bitcoin , the most solid, and with signatum you don't know if it fall or rise.

[Cereberus]

Nicehash is for people who want to be paid directly in bitcoin and don't mind the super high fees and a bit of little lower hashrate compared to if you mine with Claymore or EBWF. So Nicehash is for beginners.

If you know what are doing , mining with specific miners is the best possible option from the three your are mentioning. Nothing beats the feeling when you mine the coins with your hardware, GPU-s in this case. You can buy and keep them on an exchange but where's the fun in that ? I am mining with specific miners like Claymore and EBWF and today I sold almost 1 bitcoin because I am gonna build a new Zcash rig with 6 x GTX 1060 6 GB. If I wanted I could have deposited this almost 1 bitcoin to Poloniex and buy the coins you mention but again where's the fun in that ?

[cryptofriendz]

I've just compared switched my small farm (5 Gh/s Eth) to Nicehash and I'm not happy at all. While the idea of just mining the most profitable algo is compelling, there are a few challenges:

* It doesn't use the best/most efficient miner (often you get better rates with modded miners targeted to your HW)
* OC settings are incredibly hard for multi-algo, wich means you need to go subtle / generalized OC and loose a couple Mh/s there too
* Fees are too high (its just too high)

I switched back to Signatum mining using ccminer for now, still exploring better mining options.

Buying coins is a safe choice and the most passive option so you don't invest your time. If you put a number behind that its the most profitable I assume. While I'm in for the long game and its exciting to figure out new stuff I would have been better of investing the money just into BTC or ETH.

It seems signatum now is equal to nicehash but with nicehash you get bitcoin , the most solid, and with signatum you don't know if it fall or rise.

I agree and change exchange all my SIGT to BTC daily. So I don't really care about daily price changes as it will average out and regress to mean.

[fanatic26]

If you want to maximize profits, nicehash is not the way to go. No profit switching algo is really worth it, you are always chasing coin and if you dont immediately cash out as you mine it, you are never going to hit the profits you think, plus you lose so much switching algos all day long as well as the previous poster mentioned as far as the OC settings go.

[cryptofriendz]

If you want to maximize profits, nicehash is not the way to go. No profit switching algo is really worth it, you are always chasing coin and if you dont immediately cash out as you mine it, you are never going to hit the profits you think, plus you lose so much switching algos all day long as well as the previous poster mentioned as far as the OC settings go.

I think you should always go for the most profitable at a time. Because even if you believe in a potential uplift one day, mine the most profitable to buy more of the coin of your desire than you would directly mine it.

[ibinsad]

I've just compared switched my small farm (5 Gh/s Eth) to Nicehash and I'm not happy at all. While the idea of just mining the most profitable algo is compelling, there are a few challenges:

* It doesn't use the best/most efficient miner (often you get better rates with modded miners targeted to your HW)
* OC settings are incredibly hard for multi-algo, wich means you need to go subtle / generalized OC and loose a couple Mh/s there too
* Fees are too high (its just too high)

I switched back to Signatum mining using ccminer for now, still exploring better mining options.

Buying coins is a safe choice and the most passive option so you don't invest your time. If you put a number behind that its the most profitable I assume. While I'm in for the long game and its exciting to figure out new stuff I would have been better of investing the money just into BTC or ETH.

It seems signatum now is equal to nicehash but with nicehash you get bitcoin , the most solid, and with signatum you don't know if it fall or rise.

I agree and change exchange all my SIGT to BTC daily. So I don't really care about daily price changes as it will average out and regress to mean.

I tested today, nicehash has little bit more profit in these days vs signatum.
 
Mine signatum and sell daily now has no sense, surely if it raise mine and sell have sense.

Try yourself if you want, consider also you need to manage everything, with nicehash is everything automatic.

[cryptofriendz]

I've just compared switched my small farm (5 Gh/s Eth) to Nicehash and I'm not happy at all. While the idea of just mining the most profitable algo is compelling, there are a few challenges:

* It doesn't use the best/most efficient miner (often you get better rates with modded miners targeted to your HW)
* OC settings are incredibly hard for multi-algo, wich means you need to go subtle / generalized OC and loose a couple Mh/s there too
* Fees are too high (its just too high)

I switched back to Signatum mining using ccminer for now, still exploring better mining options.

Buying coins is a safe choice and the most passive option so you don't invest your time. If you put a number behind that its the most profitable I assume. While I'm in for the long game and its exciting to figure out new stuff I would have been better of investing the money just into BTC or ETH.

It seems signatum now is equal to nicehash but with nicehash you get bitcoin , the most solid, and with signatum you don't know if it fall or rise.

I agree and change exchange all my SIGT to BTC daily. So I don't really care about daily price changes as it will average out and regress to mean.

I tested today, nicehash has little bit more profit in these days vs signatum.
 
Mine signatum and sell daily now has no sense, surely if it raise mine and sell have sense.

Try yourself if you want, consider also you need to manage everything, with nicehash is everything automatic.

Really not for me. It seems the difficulty went down so I'm getting more shares/coins. However you're right I still have to exchange them first and proof.

[themonkii]

Ok, so based on this, you would suggest using that 3k to either invest in more equipment, or buy the coins directly?

[ibinsad]

Ok, so based on this, you would suggest using that 3k to either invest in more equipment, or buy the coins directly?

Maybe buy, if you think they will rise, mine seems to be not really profitable in this period in addition gpu raise their prices, it depends also on how much you pay for Kwh.

[cryptotore]

I've just compared switched my small farm (5 Gh/s Eth) to Nicehash and I'm not happy at all. While the idea of just mining the most profitable algo is compelling, there are a few challenges:

* It doesn't use the best/most efficient miner (often you get better rates with modded miners targeted to your HW)
* OC settings are incredibly hard for multi-algo, wich means you need to go subtle / generalized OC and loose a couple Mh/s there too
* Fees are too high (its just too high)

I switched back to Signatum mining using ccminer for now, still exploring better mining options.

Buying coins is a safe choice and the most passive option so you don't invest your time. If you put a number behind that its the most profitable I assume. While I'm in for the long game and its exciting to figure out new stuff I would have been better of investing the money just into BTC or ETH.

You can use claymore or any other miner to mine at nicehash.
I've always assumed that the "accepted hashrate" chart is wrong, cause it is ALWAYS lower than the actual hashrate my rigs are producing.

I got 500 Mh/s ETH, at nicehash its currently showing 350 Mh/s as accepted speed. Does that actually mean it doesnt accept the the full "speed" I'm producing?
I got 0% rejected speed.

Am I losing profits?

[Za1n]

Ok, so based on this, you would suggest using that 3k to either invest in more equipment, or buy the coins directly?

I would buy the coins you are interested in directly. Mining can be fun and profitable, but right now is not the optimal time to get in due to the hardware prices still be at the peak and with just about every coins difficulty still rising.

To be profitable in mining right now requires that the coin(s) you mine keep appreciating in value just to keep up with the difficultly increases. Since you are relying on this assumption (that market price will rise) with either the mining or buying scenarios, you may as well just buy and avoid all the hassle.

In a few months when if/when mining stabilizes again and when hardware prices begin to return to normal, then maybe reconsider getting into mining. Also, I would recommend spreading your money around a bit into a few different coins to help spread the risk if one would suddenly tank and not recover.

[Za1n]

I've just compared switched my small farm (5 Gh/s Eth) to Nicehash and I'm not happy at all. While the idea of just mining the most profitable algo is compelling, there are a few challenges:

* It doesn't use the best/most efficient miner (often you get better rates with modded miners targeted to your HW)
* OC settings are incredibly hard for multi-algo, wich means you need to go subtle / generalized OC and loose a couple Mh/s there too
* Fees are too high (its just too high)

I switched back to Signatum mining using ccminer for now, still exploring better mining options.

Buying coins is a safe choice and the most passive option so you don't invest your time. If you put a number behind that its the most profitable I assume. While I'm in for the long game and its exciting to figure out new stuff I would have been better of investing the money just into BTC or ETH.

You can use claymore or any other miner to mine at nicehash.
I've always assumed that the "accepted hashrate" chart is wrong, cause it is ALWAYS lower than the actual hashrate my rigs are producing.

I got 500 Mh/s ETH, at nicehash its currently showing 350 Mh/s as accepted speed. Does that actually mean it doesnt accept the the full "speed" I'm producing?
I got 0% rejected speed.

Am I losing profits?

Your miner is basing its hash-rate figures on how much work it is doing. Even though it is performing the hashing function it may not be generating acceptable shares at the rate the pool uses to estimate how much hashrate x number of shares over a certain timeframe equates to.

Pools such as Nicehash can only use how many valid shares they receive from your miners as a metric and then use that figure along with time to display a guesstimate of your hash-rate. Luck, latency, pool issues, developer fee shares, or even subtle miner hardware fluctuations can all contribute to a large difference between submitted and accepted share-rates at the pool compared to what you miner is displaying.

As far as are you losing profits, in almost all cases mining at Nicehash will result in less profits than mining a coin directly and then trading it yourself. Consider Nicehash charges buyers 3% to "rent" your hashrate. They also charge you 3% for the privilege of renting it out to the buyers. Also consider the people buying or renting this hash-rate need to overcome this spread in order to profit on whatever coin they are after, so assuming they aren't losing money this needs ot be an additional 2-3% or more profit to make it worthwhile. So adding all this up, as a seller you need to overcome from 6-10% of fees to make what you could just by mining whatever profitable coin people are willing to pay Nicehash to mine for them.

[cryptotore]

I've just compared switched my small farm (5 Gh/s Eth) to Nicehash and I'm not happy at all. While the idea of just mining the most profitable algo is compelling, there are a few challenges:

* It doesn't use the best/most efficient miner (often you get better rates with modded miners targeted to your HW)
* OC settings are incredibly hard for multi-algo, wich means you need to go subtle / generalized OC and loose a couple Mh/s there too
* Fees are too high (its just too high)

I switched back to Signatum mining using ccminer for now, still exploring better mining options.

Buying coins is a safe choice and the most passive option so you don't invest your time. If you put a number behind that its the most profitable I assume. While I'm in for the long game and its exciting to figure out new stuff I would have been better of investing the money just into BTC or ETH.

You can use claymore or any other miner to mine at nicehash.
I've always assumed that the "accepted hashrate" chart is wrong, cause it is ALWAYS lower than the actual hashrate my rigs are producing.

I got 500 Mh/s ETH, at nicehash its currently showing 350 Mh/s as accepted speed. Does that actually mean it doesnt accept the the full "speed" I'm producing?
I got 0% rejected speed.

Am I losing profits?

Your miner is basing its hash-rate figures on how much work it is doing. Even though it is performing the hashing function it may not be generating acceptable shares at the rate the pool uses to estimate how much hashrate x number of shares over a certain timeframe equates to.

Pools such as Nicehash can only use how many valid shares they receive from your miners as a metric and then use that figure along with time to display a guesstimate of your hash-rate. Luck, latency, pool issues, developer fee shares, or even subtle miner hardware fluctuations can all contribute to a large difference between submitted and accepted share-rates at the pool compared to what you miner is displaying.

As far as are you losing profits, in almost all cases mining at Nicehash will result in less profits than mining a coin directly and then trading it yourself. Consider Nicehash charges buyers 3% to "rent" your hashrate. They also charge you 3% for the privilege of renting it out to the buyers. Also consider the people buying or renting this hash-rate need to overcome this spread in order to profit on whatever coin they are after, so assuming they aren't losing money this needs ot be an additional 2-3% or more profit to make it worthwhile. So adding all this up, as a seller you need to overcome from 6-10% of fees to make what you could just by mining whatever profitable coin people are willing to pay Nicehash to mine for them.

Thanks for reply!

Regarding "Luck and pool issues", shouldnt this be the renters problem?

Example from one of my rigs:

"ETH - Total Speed: 142.758 Mh/s, Total Shares: 1397, Rejected: 3, Time: 07:37
ETH: GPU0 28.547 Mh/s, GPU1 28.568 Mh/s, GPU2 28.560 Mh/s, GPU3 28.558 Mh/s, GPU4 28.526 Mh/s"



These stats kinda freak me out!


The average seems to be acceptable tho:


I do have 2 GPUs not listed in the screenshots above. (Old rig with cards failing 1 by 1, only 2 left )

[themonkii]

Ok, so based on this, you would suggest using that 3k to either invest in more equipment, or buy the coins directly?

I would buy the coins you are interested in directly. Mining can be fun and profitable, but right now is not the optimal time to get in due to the hardware prices still be at the peak and with just about every coins difficulty still rising.

To be profitable in mining right now requires that the coin(s) you mine keep appreciating in value just to keep up with the difficultly increases. Since you are relying on this assumption (that market price will rise) with either the mining or buying scenarios, you may as well just buy and avoid all the hassle.

In a few months when if/when mining stabilizes again and when hardware prices begin to return to normal, then maybe reconsider getting into mining. Also, I would recommend spreading your money around a bit into a few different coins to help spread the risk if one would suddenly tank and not recover.

Sorry, I might have not been clear - I am mining already - 3 rigs/24 GPU's - my thoughts were more in terms of expansion. Should I add a new rig, or consider renting additional hashrate. So, with that being said, I'm not sure if it changes anyone's opinion. At the end of the day, I typically buy coins to hold.