Eurocollapse, PIIGS, and capital controls

[billyjoeallen]

A default from the PIGS would be the optimistic grand-finale for this tragedy. I am not that optimistic, I think the chances of the BCE monetizing the Greek debt are high, what would be worse.

My "optimistic hope" is regarding other euro-zone countries, whose populations have made clear they do not want to bailout foreign governments. I wonder if the Finish for example would attempt to leave the euro-zone. And if they did, what would be the consequences? Would other countries follow? If Germany drops the euro, it's the end of the common currency... and the Germans are precisely those who are paying the most to bailout these broken governments.

Here's a very interesting text about the euro, and why it is a self-destructive system: http://mises.org/daily/5331/The-EMU-as-a-SelfDestroying-System

If the debt gets monetized by the ECB, Bitcoin will skyrocket in Euro terms. It would be terrible for Europe, but good for Bitcoin and the Europeans that had some.

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[Gabi]

Posting to tell billy that no, Italy won't go bankrupt 

[billyjoeallen]

Posting to tell billy that no, Italy won't go bankrupt 

The U.S. stock market is down almost 1% today on rumors that two Italian banks failed their stress tests. This follows a ruling by Moody's yesterday that an Irish bank suffered a "credit event" (effective default). The dominoes appear to be falling.

[3phase]

Posting to tell billy that no, Italy won't go bankrupt 

Greece and Italy should unite again, we have common roots. Una faccia, una razza, one debt, one revolution. 

[billyjoeallen]

Posting to tell billy that no, Italy won't go bankrupt 

Greece and Italy should unite again, we have common roots. Una faccia, una razza, one debt, one revolution. 

I'm not sure that makes economic sense, but the food would be delicious!

[zaphod]

Some fun but still interesting stuff from about a year ago on the NYT Economix blog:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/04/06/business/global/european-debt-map.html?ref=global

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/05/02/weekinreview/02marsh.html

[billyjoeallen]

http://www.moneyweek.com/blog/how-greece-could-bring-capital-controls-back-to-europe-54220

This is just talk for now, I hope.

"' all restrictions on the movement of capital between Member States and between member states and third parties are to be prohibited” (Article 63).

However, look further down and you find that this isn’t a blanket guarantee. Instead, should it be justified “on grounds of public policy or public security,” it appears that there may be exceptions. "

Judging by the way the ECB and the Eurocrats have dealt with the crisis so far, there appears to be no barriers to the complete disregard of the letter and spirit of the Lisbon Treaty. Greeks should prepare for the tightening of the noose.

[3phase]

Judging by the way the ECB and the Eurocrats have dealt with the crisis so far, there appears to be no barriers to the complete disregard of the letter and spirit of the Lisbon Treaty. Greeks should prepare for the tightening of the noose.

Yeah Billy, we are ready. More and more people are realising that the second letter in TPTB has been provided by ourselves in our folly and ignorance, and that if it gets taken away by our conscious decision there will be no 4th letter in TPTB either, and will come down to TT which is essentially nothing 

Interesting times ahead.

[barrymac]

There are only two commodities that can help the average Greek preserve their purchasing power right now: gold and silver.  I would wager Bitcoin is unknown by 99% of the population.

The irony of the Greek people's reactions over their nation's dire financial state is that they themselves and their democratically elected government caused the problem.  They cheated their way into the Euro by hiding their debts (courtesy of Goldman Sachs) and continue to look upon Europe to save them while tax evasion remains a virtual national sport.  The whole 'Greece is the cradle of Democracy, Plato, Socrates, etc' angle won't save them either.  The rest of Europe only cares about Greece as their banks are emroiled in the whole mess.

I'm interested in your point that Goldmans helped greece fiddle the books to get into the euro. This is news to me. Can you provide some references?

[Grant]

I'm interested in your point that Goldmans helped greece fiddle the books to get into the euro. This is news to me. Can you provide some references?

There is quiet a lot of sources about just that...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,676634,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/global/14debt.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-helped-greece-disguise-deficit-2010-2