$5000+ bitcoin?

[BitChick]

I watched the Bitcoin 2013 conference talk on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7LQu-eIOO0&list=PLUOP0P68GJ3BGjfqoLLnzAefk3ZzXQtJ7&index=9) earlier today about why you should invest in bitcoin.  In it, Demeester said that if bitcoin becomes the world reserve currency, replacing the dollar, the price will end up being $500,000 / Bitcoin.  So that's likely the upper limit on bitcoin price.  I certainly wouldn't complain if that happens, it'd make me a millionaire and I don't even have all that many bitcoins.  But I'd be very surprised if it ends up being THAT successful.

I watched that talk a month ago and it is certainly worth watching for sure.

I think that is why, even if some consider BTC a risky investment, that it is actually smart to buy at least a few.  It is much cheaper than a trip to Vegas if you like to gamble and there are some pretty good odds, especially compared to playing the lottery.  At this point the risk of not investing is something I think people should consider.

[solex]

I watched the Bitcoin 2013 conference talk on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7LQu-eIOO0&list=PLUOP0P68GJ3BGjfqoLLnzAefk3ZzXQtJ7&index=9) earlier today about why you should invest in bitcoin.  In it, Demeester said that if bitcoin becomes the world reserve currency, replacing the dollar, the price will end up being $500,000 / Bitcoin.  So that's likely the upper limit on bitcoin price.  I certainly wouldn't complain if that happens, it'd make me a millionaire and I don't even have all that many bitcoins.  But I'd be very surprised if it ends up being THAT successful.

I watched that talk a month ago and it is certainly worth watching for sure.

I think that is why, even if some consider BTC a risky investment, that it is actually smart to buy at least a few.  It is much cheaper than a trip to Vegas if you like to gamble and there are some pretty good odds, especially compared to playing the lottery.  At this point the risk of not investing is something I think people should consider.

That super-high dollar value is very possible provided that some key software improvements are done to Bitcoin for scaling, also that governments continue to abuse their fiats to death with zero interest rates, a bankster-controlled shadow-banking system, CB money printing and stomach-churning annual sovereign deficits.

Seems to me like all of the above are baked in the cake.

[halfawake]

I watched the Bitcoin 2013 conference talk on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7LQu-eIOO0&list=PLUOP0P68GJ3BGjfqoLLnzAefk3ZzXQtJ7&index=9) earlier today about why you should invest in bitcoin.  In it, Demeester said that if bitcoin becomes the world reserve currency, replacing the dollar, the price will end up being $500,000 / Bitcoin.  So that's likely the upper limit on bitcoin price.  I certainly wouldn't complain if that happens, it'd make me a millionaire and I don't even have all that many bitcoins.  But I'd be very surprised if it ends up being THAT successful.

I watched that talk a month ago and it is certainly worth watching for sure.

I think that is why, even if some consider BTC a risky investment, that it is actually smart to buy at least a few.  It is much cheaper than a trip to Vegas if you like to gamble and there are some pretty good odds, especially compared to playing the lottery.  At this point the risk of not investing is something I think people should consider.

That super-high dollar value is very possible provided that some key software improvements are done to Bitcoin for scaling, also that governments continue to abuse their fiats to death with zero interest rates, a bankster-controlled shadow-banking system, CB money printing and stomach-churning annual sovereign deficits.

Seems to me like all of the above are baked in the cake.

Scaling isn't the only issue with bitcoin going mainstream.  I think the scalability issue is a solvable problem.  It's not trivial, but it's solvable.  I do kind of wish that people would stop coming up with proposals to stuff more things into the blockchain though since that's only going to make the scalability problem harder if it becomes a way of trading stock as well (as has been suggested).

To me, the harder problem is security.  I'm a geek and I think especially with Armory, I can handle securing my bitcoins.  I suspect 90% of the Bitcoin userbase right now are people who are also geeks and could solve this problem on their own.  But when it goes mainstream and random people who aren't geeks and don't think about security will need to be able to have security somehow too.  Ironically, the easiest way of solving this problem is for these people to store their bitcoins in either an online wallet or a bitcoin bank.  Which, of course, just shifts the security problem from the people holding the wallet to the banks or companies with the case of Coinbase.

[solex]

Scaling isn't the only issue with bitcoin going mainstream.  I think the scalability issue is a solvable problem.  It's not trivial, but it's solvable.  I do kind of wish that people would stop coming up with proposals to stuff more things into the blockchain though since that's only going to make the scalability problem harder if it becomes a way of trading stock as well (as has been suggested).

To me, the harder problem is security.  I'm a geek and I think especially with Armory, I can handle securing my bitcoins.  I suspect 90% of the Bitcoin userbase right now are people who are also geeks and could solve this problem on their own.  But when it goes mainstream and random people who aren't geeks and don't think about security will need to be able to have security somehow too.  Ironically, the easiest way of solving this problem is for these people to store their bitcoins in either an online wallet or a bitcoin bank.  Which, of course, just shifts the security problem from the people holding the wallet to the banks or companies with the case of Coinbase.

Yes. I use Armory as well and although it is good software, it does demonstrate that securing bitcoins is going to be a big problem for most people. I think there are hardware wallets being designed that are offline until needed when they can safely plug into a computer like a usb drive. I am optimistic about this area because it does not tinker with core Bitcoin software like the blockchain optimizations. As market-share of Bitcoin increases there will be larger companies working on consumer components to make bitcoin management seamless and secure.

[halfawake]

Yes. I use Armory as well and although it is good software, it does demonstrate that securing bitcoins is going to be a big problem for most people. I think there are hardware wallets being designed that are offline until needed when they can safely plug into a computer like a usb drive. I am optimistic about this area because it does not tinker with core Bitcoin software like the blockchain optimizations. As market-share of Bitcoin increases there will be larger companies working on consumer components to make bitcoin management seamless and secure.

Hardware wallets definitely seem like a good solution for taking bitcoin mainstream.  Not sure how they would work technologically, but I'm sure it's possible to do it well and I'm sure there is, or at least will be, money to be made in making a good product that solves this problem.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Yes. I use Armory as well and although it is good software, it does demonstrate that securing bitcoins is going to be a big problem for most people. I think there are hardware wallets being designed that are offline until needed when they can safely plug into a computer like a usb drive. I am optimistic about this area because it does not tinker with core Bitcoin software like the blockchain optimizations. As market-share of Bitcoin increases there will be larger companies working on consumer components to make bitcoin management seamless and secure.

Hardware wallets definitely seem like a good solution for taking bitcoin mainstream.  Not sure how they would work technologically, but I'm sure it's possible to do it well and I'm sure there is, or at least will be, money to be made in making a good product that solves this problem.

Check out Trezor: http://www.bitcointrezor.com/  , very important development imho.  I just hope they can make them somewhat cheaper in the future, so that it is also interesting for people with few bitcoins.

[halfawake]

Yes. I use Armory as well and although it is good software, it does demonstrate that securing bitcoins is going to be a big problem for most people. I think there are hardware wallets being designed that are offline until needed when they can safely plug into a computer like a usb drive. I am optimistic about this area because it does not tinker with core Bitcoin software like the blockchain optimizations. As market-share of Bitcoin increases there will be larger companies working on consumer components to make bitcoin management seamless and secure.

Hardware wallets definitely seem like a good solution for taking bitcoin mainstream.  Not sure how they would work technologically, but I'm sure it's possible to do it well and I'm sure there is, or at least will be, money to be made in making a good product that solves this problem.

Check out Trezor: http://www.bitcointrezor.com/  , very important development imho.  I just hope they can make them somewhat cheaper in the future, so that it is also interesting for people with few bitcoins.

Sounds like a great product.  I tried to watch their product, but our internet connection sucks too much to watch videos on Vimeo, sadly.  But I agree, it would be ideal if they can make it significantly cheaper than that.  I can see them selling well at half a bitcoin, but at that price?  I'd rather pay a little more and just having an offline computer that I'd also use for the wallet, since that I could at least use for more things than just keeping my bitcoins secure.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Yes. I use Armory as well and although it is good software, it does demonstrate that securing bitcoins is going to be a big problem for most people. I think there are hardware wallets being designed that are offline until needed when they can safely plug into a computer like a usb drive. I am optimistic about this area because it does not tinker with core Bitcoin software like the blockchain optimizations. As market-share of Bitcoin increases there will be larger companies working on consumer components to make bitcoin management seamless and secure.

Hardware wallets definitely seem like a good solution for taking bitcoin mainstream.  Not sure how they would work technologically, but I'm sure it's possible to do it well and I'm sure there is, or at least will be, money to be made in making a good product that solves this problem.

Check out Trezor: http://www.bitcointrezor.com/  , very important development imho.  I just hope they can make them somewhat cheaper in the future, so that it is also interesting for people with few bitcoins.

Sounds like a great product.  I tried to watch their product, but our internet connection sucks too much to watch videos on Vimeo, sadly.  But I agree, it would be ideal if they can make it significantly cheaper than that.  I can see them selling well at half a bitcoin, but at that price?  I'd rather pay a little more and just having an offline computer that I'd also use for the wallet, since that I could at least use for more things than just keeping my bitcoins secure.

I guess it (how cheap they can make it) might depend on whether bitcoin takes off again or not.  If the bitcoin market cap becomes much higher, then there will be a lot more money available for security devices (say you are willing to give 1% of your stake to security), so there will be a lot more devices sold, so you can produce at larger scale, so it becomes cheaper etc. ...

[halfawake]

Oh, now I get Trezor.  I just watched most of the presentation about it on YouTube and it's basically the equivalent of the second computer that does the key signing in Armory.  Looks like a great and much needed device.

[lebalek]

$5000 / BTC? Definately sometime, but maybe not this year.

[painlord2k]

$5000 / BTC? Definately sometime, but maybe not this year.

Before the end of the next (31/12/2014)

[yocko06]

5 year's ago but coin was worth 2c.  look at how  any times it has doubled in that space of time, this is with a small user base as well. now if you look at all the people who are beginning to see the true value of bitcoin and the amount of people it is safe to say bitcoin will have some strong price hikes.

[ThatDGuy]

5 year's ago but coin was worth 2c.  look at how  any times it has doubled in that space of time, this is with a small user base as well. now if you look at all the people who are beginning to see the true value of bitcoin and the amount of people it is safe to say bitcoin will have some strong price hikes.

I wouldn't quite say it's safe, but the possibility for value increases in orders of magnitude are possible.

[jubalix]

Scaling isn't the only issue with bitcoin going mainstream.  I think the scalability issue is a solvable problem.  It's not trivial, but it's solvable.  I do kind of wish that people would stop coming up with proposals to stuff more things into the blockchain though since that's only going to make the scalability problem harder if it becomes a way of trading stock as well (as has been suggested).

To me, the harder problem is security.  I'm a geek and I think especially with Armory, I can handle securing my bitcoins.  I suspect 90% of the Bitcoin userbase right now are people who are also geeks and could solve this problem on their own.  But when it goes mainstream and random people who aren't geeks and don't think about security will need to be able to have security somehow too.  Ironically, the easiest way of solving this problem is for these people to store their bitcoins in either an online wallet or a bitcoin bank.  Which, of course, just shifts the security problem from the people holding the wallet to the banks or companies with the case of Coinbase.

Yes. I use Armory as well and although it is good software, it does demonstrate that securing bitcoins is going to be a big problem for most people. I think there are hardware wallets being designed that are offline until needed when they can safely plug into a computer like a usb drive. I am optimistic about this area because it does not tinker with core Bitcoin software like the blockchain optimizations. As market-share of Bitcoin increases there will be larger companies working on consumer components to make bitcoin management seamless and secure.

its amazing that it takes 'geek' to be able to understand this and is a testament to how dumb-ed down the general population is, either that or we are underestmating them

It not that hard to keep BTC secured. Just priv key and address + some form or encryption eg truecrypt and your done.
if you you want cold gap's then signed transactions.

I have found electrum to be excellent so far...worry abit about the 128 bit seed/deterministic though, rather than the 256, or even 512 should be used imho

[Jaroslaw]

5kk for 1btc plox

[BitBank]

transaction fees aren't a problem if more people start using off-blockchain transaction networks like coinbase and (soon to be) bitbanc

[hl5460]

It could be nill...... Anyway, according to pirate bay's owner calculation, the range for BTC should be around 10,000USD-100,000USD>

[halfawake]

its amazing that it takes 'geek' to be able to understand this and is a testament to how dumb-ed down the general population is, either that or we are underestmating them

It not that hard to keep BTC secured. Just priv key and address + some form or encryption eg truecrypt and your done.
if you you want cold gap's then signed transactions.

I have found electrum to be excellent so far...worry abit about the 128 bit seed/deterministic though, rather than the 256, or even 512 should be used imho

A lot of people just aren't that tech savvy.  My parents would probably have a hard time understanding the concept of Bitcoin.  It's not that they're dumb, they just aren't the least bit tech savvy.  I doubt a lot of people even understand how the current banking system works, let alone this brand new one that is Bitcoin.  It's pretty complex.  I actually think Bitcoin is much less complex than the existing financial system, personally.

[BitChick]

its amazing that it takes 'geek' to be able to understand this and is a testament to how dumb-ed down the general population is, either that or we are underestmating them

It not that hard to keep BTC secured. Just priv key and address + some form or encryption eg truecrypt and your done.
if you you want cold gap's then signed transactions.

I have found electrum to be excellent so far...worry abit about the 128 bit seed/deterministic though, rather than the 256, or even 512 should be used imho

A lot of people just aren't that tech savvy.  My parents would probably have a hard time understanding the concept of Bitcoin.  It's not that they're dumb, they just aren't the least bit tech savvy.  I doubt a lot of people even understand how the current banking system works, let alone this brand new one that is Bitcoin.  It's pretty complex.  I actually think Bitcoin is much less complex than the existing financial system, personally.

Hopefully there will come a day when people will be able to use bitcoin without even realizing the complexities behind how it works! Who knows, maybe some company will come along and have people investing in bitcoin for the purpose of transferring money without them even realizing it? They could provide all of the storage of the coins and transfers and the people using them would just be putting in fiat to get the service provided?  Not really sure but it could potentially happen.  I know it took years for my parents to even use Paypal and buy things on ebay.  Finally they do now though.  If someone provides an easy way for people to get money in and out of Bitcoin and makes a simple payment system, there is no stopping it.  It could be more secure then other payment systems and there are many other benefits as already discussed repeatedly here on the forum.  Hopefully the infrastructure comes soon.  We need "Bitcoin for Dummies" to be put into action!

[realdos]

You could see how optimistic people were at that time...