Theymos: What the fuck is up with BFL and TradeFortress?

[misterbigg]

Two scammers and we aren't seeing any scammer or untrustworthy tag.

TradeFortress is a little controversial (although I believe he is firmly in the scammer camp for deliberately misleading newbies).

But there can be absolutely no question that BFL is a bad actor and needs the label right away.

Why are you abdicating your responsibilities?

[anti-scam]

How is TradeFortress a scammer? You Ripple shills deserve the tag.

[solex]

I forget. How much are we paying to use this forum?

[Kluge]

I forget. How much are we paying to use this forum?

I think theymos has a few hundred thousand USD-worth from the community, actually.... 

[SGExodus]

Two scammers and we aren't seeing any scammer or untrustworthy tag.

TradeFortress is a little controversial (although I believe he is firmly in the scammer camp for deliberately misleading newbies).

But there can be absolutely no question that BFL is a bad actor and needs the label right away.

Why are you abdicating your responsibilities?

Anyone selling XRP at the current stage of Ripple development should be tagged as a scammer. Yes, that means you.

[misterbigg]

I forget. How much are we paying to use this forum?

I haven't paid anything but I'm more than willing to do so if it will expedite this process!

[Coinseeker]

Two scammers and we aren't seeing any scammer or untrustworthy tag.

TradeFortress is a little controversial (although I believe he is firmly in the scammer camp for deliberately misleading newbies).

But there can be absolutely no question that BFL is a bad actor and needs the label right away.

Why are you abdicating your responsibilities?

+1 Agree.  BFL for sure and to think I almost sent them money.  Now all these TradeFortress posts should at minimum, be moved to the speculation forum because, at best, that's all it is. Speculation.  

Now there is justifcation for scammer tags for Tradefortress when we have noobs clearly getting scammed. One individual trying to unload what Tradefortress scammed him for, was busted in the currency section just yesterday.  Even John K. came into add to the thread and called it a "sick trick".  When it blew up in his face, we had PM dialog that included this:

Your right. Tradefortress scammed me greatly. And what should I Do to protect my account? The person was just making post but no PM's

So, what are you going to do?

EDIT:  Look how fast this thread made it to the scam accusation forum.  Shouldn't the Tradeforest threads be here as well?  Really speaks volumes.

[themusicgod1]

How is TradeFortress a scammer? You Ripple shills deserve the tag.

He is signing up newbies to Ripple with the false expectation that they will get 1BTC from him when in fact he purposefully leads them into signing him up with a 100BTC trust limit to himself.  I personally do not think this is worthy of a 'scammer' tag but others have certainly suggested that this straddles the line on the wrong side.

[oakpacific]

How can the mods decide if TF defaults or not? Even if we assume that he did agree to redeem all his IOUs in real BTCs, did he specify any repayment date? He didn't, he can always say he will repay, but probably after a thousand years? I see absolutely no resaon why a scammer tag should be applied, the mods are powerless against him.

[anti-scam]

How is TradeFortress a scammer? You Ripple shills deserve the tag.

He is signing up newbies to Ripple with the false expectation that they will get 1BTC from him when in fact he purposefully leads them into signing him up with a 100BTC trust limit to himself.  I personally do not think this is worthy of a 'scammer' tag but others have certainly suggested that this straddles the line on the wrong side.

Link? I thought TradeFortress was against Ripple. Did he get paid off?

How can the mods decide if TF defaults or not? Even if we assume that he did agree to redeem all his IOUs in real BTCs, did he specify any repayment date? He didn't, he can always say he will repay, but probably after a thousand years? I see absolutely no resaon why a scammer tag should be applied, the mods are powerless against him.

This is a good point. There is no penalty in Ripple for defaulting. Why should TradeFortress get a scammer tag for pointing out a flaw in the system? I think that's his aim.

[misterbigg]

How can the mods decide if TF defaults or not? Even if we assume that he did agree to redeem all his IOUs in real BTCs, did he specify any repayment date? He didn't, he can always say he will repay, but probably after a thousand years? I see absolutely no resaon why a scammer tag should be applied, the mods are powerless against him.

The scammer tag should be applied because he engaged in predatory practices to con users out of some bitcoins:

1) He posted in the Newbies forum
2) He made his thread self-moderated so no one could warn new users
3) He specifically told new users to take risky actions
4) He took advantage of new users who followed his directions

As it has been stated previously #3 is no different than asking Bitcoin newbies for their private key "to send some coins to them." If this isn't scamming then what the fuck is?

What about BFL? In what universe could BFL NOT be considered scammers?

Could this have to do with that both BFL and TradeFortress have paid for ads on the forum?

[oakpacific]

How can the mods decide if TF defaults or not? Even if we assume that he did agree to redeem all his IOUs in real BTCs, did he specify any repayment date? He didn't, he can always say he will repay, but probably after a thousand years? I see absolutely no resaon why a scammer tag should be applied, the mods are powerless against him.

The scammer tag should be applied because he engaged in predatory practices to con users out of some bitcoins:

1) He posted in the Newbies forum
2) He made his thread self-moderated so no one could warn new users
3) He specifically told new users to take risky actions
4) He took advantage of new users who followed his directions

As it has been stated previously #3 is no different than asking Bitcoin newbies for their private key "to send some coins to them." If this isn't scamming then what the fuck is?

What about BFL? In what universe could BFL NOT be considered scammers?

Could this have to do with that both BFL and TradeFortress have paid for ads on the forum?

No. If he indeed will pay back, then he should not be considered a scammer, the problem is there is no way  for the mods to determine if he will, because no repayment date was specified in the terms. I believe you have signed contracts in your life and you should know.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

You do realize that I have not profited at all from this, right?

The people who used the automatic liquidity providing feature are the people who "scammed", but in the end people still have the same amount of "BTCs" as before.

1) He posted in the Newbies forum

Uh huh, hundreds of people do that everyday.

2) He made his thread self-moderated so no one could warn new users

That's right.

3) He specifically told new users to take risky actions

You are taking a risky action by holding any kind of cryptocurrency.

4) He took advantage of new users who followed his directions

I have not taken advantage of anyone. Other people has.


Btw, keep pumping your scam ripples.

[webr3]

TradeFortress. Let's get this over and done with.

I have trusted you for 100 BTC from rPcu8U9dSsK6nHtqgpeSvjuFTmNGq3arPh. And I have put 10.15 BTC/bitstamp in that account.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

TradeFortress. Let's get this over and done with.

I have trusted you for 100 BTC from rPcu8U9dSsK6nHtqgpeSvjuFTmNGq3arPh. And I have put 10.15 BTC/bitstamp in that account.

If you actually did that, someone with my IOUs (not me) is going to have 10.15 Bitstamp BTCs.

I think someone might have a script that does it already. you can still get this transfer done.

[webr3]

TradeFortress. Let's get this over and done with.

I have trusted you for 100 BTC from rPcu8U9dSsK6nHtqgpeSvjuFTmNGq3arPh. And I have put 10.15 BTC/bitstamp in that account.

If you actually did that, someone with my IOUs (not me) is going to have 10.15 Bitstamp BTCs.

I think someone might have a script that does it already. you can still get this transfer done.

Yes I actually did that, and feel free, also do verify, the ripple ledger is public.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Actually, because losing $1100+ is probably not what you want to see happen, I've transferred your 10.15 Bitstamp BTCs.

Give me a bitcoin address to send your 10.15 back, because right now if you check your Ripple wallet you shouldn't have any bitstamp IOUs anymore.

[uMMcQxCWELNzkt]

It does seem to me that Tradefortress is scamming people just to prove a point about the problems with Ripple system. The fact that he is engaging newbs into a system that he considers a scam tells me that at the very least what he is doing is unethical. If I thought someone was a scammer I would not suggest them as a middleman for my transactions.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

It does seem to me that Tradefortress is scamming people just to prove a point about the problems with Ripple system. The fact that he is engaging newbs into a system that he considers a scam tells me that at the very least what he is doing is unethical. If I thought someone was a scammer I would not suggest them as a middleman for my transactions.

Yes, I am scamming people but I'm not making any money, and in this special case (where I actually used the liquidity providers flaw) I'm doing it as a proof of concept and giving it back to the owner

[webr3]

Actually, because losing $1100+ is probably not what you want to see happen, I've transferred your 10.15 Bitstamp BTCs.

Give me an address to send your 10.15 back, because right now if you check your Ripple wallet you shouldn't have any bitstamp IOUs

This is exactly what I wanted to see happen, and exactly what was supposed to happen.

I trusted you for 100 BTC. You have withdrawn 10.15 BTC to blockchain. You owe me 10.15 BTC. We have successfully demonstrated how ripple works.

You of course owe me 10.15 BTC, and you can pay me that back through ripple at any point, I'd prefer it in ripple, rather than blockchain.

Ripple just models real life, only trust people or entities you view as trustworthy. I decided to trust you, and I'm sure you'll want to keep your trust and reputation over the coming weeks and months.

Still unsure what your point is?