Bitcoin Is Not Really A Good Money

[Quietman]

There maybe some flaws you can see in bitcoin but it does not generalize that it is not a good money at all. If all of us would base the meaning of being good money to its transaction hassles and vulnerability then no one would be happy to invest in bitcoin. Bitcoin has a lot to offer for us in this community. It's a step by step process in order to perfect something.

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[DevilSlayer]

Bitcoin is a modern store of value that will far exceed any other major store of value. Gold and Silver is just impractical in today's digital society. I fully support the deflationary aspect to Bitcoin, it ensure that its value will grow over time.

The scarcity is a large factor of the value that it has.

yes that is right that bitcoin is the currency of the modern people specially the new generation who are showing more interest in bitcoin to use it for online shopping.

Yeah bitcoin is a digtal currency that can use by all citizen. I know the bitcoin will more develop and will become more stronger than before. I believe that the bitcoin has a bright future.

[Uberzugzug]

Yes it is not. First of all, it is not accepted by all countries in the world. Second, it is only being transacted through internet. Lastly, it is one of the currencies with the most unstable rates.

[Farma]

I do not know if bitcoin is not a good type of money, but I do know that bitcoin is a very good investment tool. Giving its users the opportunity to have a lot of money in a short time, I think in the future will be very many people who are interested in bitcoin although not a good type of money

[Renji Abarai]

I think through solid development, the evolution of BTC will continue to solve many problems including the "Free Money" concept.

Huck

I though so. There are many improvements already with bitcoin and we hope that this November scheduled fork will be fine. Bitcoin continues to evolve and being refined as time passed.

[Carmen01]

I know, Bitcoin is designed to be as free from central bank and politician control as possible.  It is open-source, decentralized, etc.

But if you think about it, Bitcoin is still fundamentally worse than gold and silver as a truly free money.

First things first: all of gold, silver and Bitcoin are subject to central bank manipulation by pegging.  When central banks store up enough non-state money, they can sell that money for a fixed dollar or pound price, and thus suppress any appreciation of the non-state money in currency terms.  This enables the elites to acquire wealth and power for free, by issuing state currency and debt, as long as the central bank has enough of the non-state money to fight off any 'run on the bank.'

This was the real nature of the gold and silver standards through most of modern history, that mainstream economists praised for stabilizing state currencies and economies, at that time.  (Of course, they are now firmly against the gold standard, thus both times saying the elites' system was/is good for the economy.)

That said, Bitcoin suffers from the additional problem that it's secured not by physics, but by algorithm.  Algorithms can change.  Algorithms are only guarded by humans who are subject to persuasion.  At some point, the elites will have issued too many IOUs against the Bitcoin in their vaults.  Either we increase the issuance limit from 21 million, or we get a financial crisis and depression.  I imagine most of the developers will be open to talking.  (BTW, some version of this is almost guaranteed to happen, due to the nature of the world system.  For example, all countries have defaulted on their promises to redeem gold at a fixed price.)

This is in contrast to gold and silver, where violating the limit of issuance is physically impossible (or very expensive, with radioactive reactions.)

Another major weakness of Bitcoin is transparency.  In order for the public to hold the elites accountable for their monetary actions, however partially, the easier it is to observe and monitor the system, the better.  The reality is that computer networks and data structures are not easy for most of the public to understand, compared to the age-old concept of holding physical metals.

And we know from experience that the elites take full advantage of lack of public understanding.  Besides the 'gold standard good, gold standard bad' flip-flop by establishment economists, almost every major issue of finance is distorted before the public receive the wisdom passed down to it by the media (and this includes, maybe especially includes, channels tailored to the highly educated, like The Economist magazine and America's PBS television.)  Southeast Asia in the 90s, Greece recently, and Germany between world wars were made to suffer deflation after their financial crises, and the economic justification was 'moral hazard.'  The US was allowed to print devalued money to ease the pain after its own financial crises, and the economic justification was Keynesian pain relief.  (The real reason for the differentiation was that American voters had more power to disrupt the elites' system than those other populations.)

With Bitcoin so much easier to manipulate than gold and silver, no wonder, all the signs are that the elites will promote Bitcoin as the store of value of the future.  This makes even more sense when you consider it would be embarassing for the elites to promote gold or silver instead, since their prices would have to rise to a level much higher than the last time the elites tried to fix them.  Gold has appreciated 30 time since the elites' fixed postwar price of $35/ounce, and would likely have to appreciate another 30 times before a new (de-facto) gold standard can become stable.  This does not make the elites' money look good.  Bitcoin has no such history, and the elites can claim (and likely be believed) that they are merely moving money onto a new, electronic foundation that is more stable than a totally fiat system.

As I mentioned before, the elites must secretly nurture, if not openly promote, some form of safe store of value that is totally trusted by the public.  In today's world, that can only mean non-state-issued money.  The only question is which.

in short you say bitcoin is not good money?,but in my opinion i think bitcoin is really good because for what the conveniece bitcoin brings to many person who use it,like easy transaction and to have extra income also,i admire the person who create bitcoin,thanks a lot i earn money for this bitcoin

[BobK71]

At some point, the elites will have issued too many IOUs against the Bitcoin in their vaults. 

That's not how bitcoin works. So you either don't understand how bitcoin works OR you're implying that Satoshi or core developers would change the algorithm to serve this nefarious purpose.

Perhaps they could to that, but then they'd have to rely on the miners, node operators, and owners of Bitcoin to accept it. Everyone who participates in the system has the privilege of supporting the existing system as a result. You see an example of this in Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin prices. The success of Bitcoin Cash is driven entirely on (1) the will of miners and node operators to process their transactions (i.e., they must agree with Bitcoin Cash as an alternative to Bitcoin), and (2) the general public to want to own and trade Bitcoin Cash.

You're right, Bitcoin is not good money. Why would anyone spend today what they know will be worth more tomorrow? Bitcoin is an asset class, a store of value. That's it. It's beautiful.

Unfortunately, this doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin's money supply is ultimately controlled by humans.  With the elites' power, humans can be fooled, cajoled, bribed, threatened, and legally coerced into doing what they want.  Hell, the global elites have even managed to get the world to accept a totally fiat global reserve currency for 45 years -- a feat that I bet many of their own class thought impossible in the earlier ages.

[Taki]

All this reasons that you called are ok, because of, you see, Bitcoin wasn't created to replace gold or silver. So, they both can be used by the central bank and people. Bitcoin was created as control free currency and it is following it's target good for now. I don't see why do you compare bitcoin and gold in such positions where gold actually wins. Bitcoin has it's own positive sides, that gold hasn't, with which it attracts so many users and attention today.

[BobK71]

Either we increase the issuance limit from 21 million, or we get a financial crisis and depression.  I imagine most of the developers will be open to talking.  

Developers have absolutely no real power whatsoever.

What makes BTC a much more free money than gold or silver is that anyone can run any client at any time.  You want 100 kajillion coins?  Go ahead, have them.  Good luck getting everyone else to run your stupid client.

This is true in theory.  In practice, any group who want to make Bitcoin work in a certain way must gather enough strength in numbers and produce their own client(s).  After that point, they leave themselves open to reward or punishment by the elites through manipulation of coin values.  This has demonstrably already started.  (Note the story also explains the survival of Bitcoin Cash.)

True, price manipulation also applies to gold and silver.  But Bitcoin/crypto is a much more flexible system.  In an age when the elites have both power and awareness, and the public have neither, flexibility will only work in favor of the elites.

The only power that developers have is producing a client.  If the economic majority want to increase the supply of coins, they'll run a client which increases the supply of coins.  If the economic minority still don't want to increase the supply, they can keep the supply and that's perfectly fine.  The same applies with all of the other consensus rules, such as the block size.

The elites have, over 500+ years, proved themselves very capable of creating 'economic majorities' who just happen to do what they want -- i.e. allow them to skim the cream of human labor while leaving most of the effects of social ills, economic pain, war and other instabilities to the public, all the while keeping them almost completely in the dark.

Another major weakness of Bitcoin is transparency.  In order for the public to hold the elites accountable for their monetary actions, however partially, the easier it is to observe and monitor the system, the better.

Handing gold from one place to another is almost 100% untraceable, just like physical cash.  Moving Bitcoin is many times more transparent because every single transaction is accessible on a public ledger.  That means that you could see banks shifting money between each other and all other economic activity that takes place.  BTC would massively increase transparency unless banks attempted to keep their addresses hidden, but that would be tough since people can see the addresses they deposit to (if they even deposit to a bank at all).

You could almost write a quick program to split up bitcoins into new, totally anonymous addresses holding small amounts each.  When banks' money flows through these addresses, no one will be able to tell which are payments and spends, which are kept as reserves, and which are used to manipulate the market.

[BobK71]

We can get financial crisis !! Oh come on what are you thinking about bitcoin. To be honest the 21 million cap for bitcoin is not its limitation but it is its security. If the limits are increased then there is no value to bitcoin as it will be available on mass number. Today's bitcoin works on the strategy that it is limited and people are trying to grab as much as they can.

Oh, absolutely, I want the 21 million cap.  I'm just afraid it will be removed someday.  For gold, that would not be possible, as you'd have to find the gold in the ground.

[BobK71]

Imho bitcoin is not a complete money. At least as it is today.
Right now it more looks like an instrument for investment and speculations. To make it look like money it should be more tradable. Most of the problems are already discussed and I hope will be solved pretty soon.

I agree, but it has the most important property of money -- store of value.

In fact, Bitcion's scalability problems that make it hard to trade is a plus for the elites who want to promote Bitcoin.  If it were more tradeable, it would further reduce demand for state currencies.

[BobK71]

I will only say that bitcoin is not a good money when it has no value anymore. How can you say that bitcoin is not good  money if some people are earning it and holding it.  As long as bitcoin has value it will always be a good money.

Well, the dollar has value today, but I'm sure most people here will agree the dollar is not a good money, in the sense that it encourages the American elites to bring economic problems and wars around the war in order to defend their dollar as their power base.

It's in the same sense that Bitcoin is not a good money.  Now, Bitcoin was designed precisely to avoid the dollar's problems, I know, but as I've argued, a system that is based on electronics rather than physics will not be strong enough to resist the elites' using it as a tool to protect their exercise of perverse power.

[lexamagic]

Bitcoin is good money that helps an honest way to improve the lives of many people who do not have a job or are short of salary. I do not see anything wrong with them.

[the-doctor]

I agree with nost of the opinios. What bothers me is the hacking activities . These are real and brcoming so sophisticated that for example goverments have toools to penetrate your computer and data connections so actually they can manipulate and take away your digital goods. I really dont tottaly safe land to store bitcoin yet . Ledger nano is far from safe from my point of view

[Hamphser]

I agree with nost of the opinios. What bothers me is the hacking activities . These are real and brcoming so sophisticated that for example goverments have toools to penetrate your computer and data connections so actually they can manipulate and take away your digital goods. I really dont tottaly safe land to store bitcoin yet . Ledger nano is far from safe from my point of view

Worrying too much wont really give you anything good and thinking off that government doesnt really have the power to track us anytime specially on our browsing habits unless if you download virus or malware that they would able to track you out but if you are careful they wont easily hacked you up no matter what and speaking on bitcoin you cant be easily hacked as long you wont expose those private keys.

[virasog]

There really is no perfect system. Every time that you try to accommodate one need ,, you end up either creating another issue or making some small flaw larger. The same is true for Bitcoin. In order to keep things completely anonymous you have to do away with services like exchanges and other online services. In order to keep things completely decentralized you have to do the same thing.

[hase0278]

There really is no perfect system. Every time that you try to accommodate one need ,, you end up either creating another issue or making some small flaw larger. The same is true for Bitcoin. In order to keep things completely anonymous you have to do away with services like exchanges and other online services. In order to keep things completely decentralized you have to do the same thing.

Bitcoin might not be perfect but no one needs to do away with services and other online services just to send money online anonymously as one can send using his/her own wallet without ever revealing his identity at all. By doing that the real essence of bitcoin is still there even without using services to make one more anonymous. I agree on the part though that one need to use exchanges. In order to keep bitcoin market decentralized, all must continue to use decentralized exchanges.

[Idrisu]

The only question is actually " which state will allow his country to using money that the state did not have control on" I do believe the elites and politicians will never want freedom for common man. Bitcoin is even better not make a legal tender but we the promoters should only push for it acceptability by humanity. No country has accepted bitcoin but we can really see the impact it has made in our society. Decentralized currency is enemity of politicians and elites.

[rickadone]

Either we increase the issuance limit from 21 million, or we get a financial crisis and depression.  I imagine most of the developers will be open to talking. 

Developers have absolutely no real power whatsoever.

What makes BTC a much more free money than gold or silver is that anyone can run any client at any time.  You want 100 kajillion coins?  Go ahead, have them.  Good luck getting everyone else to run your stupid client.

The only power that developers have is producing a client.  If the economic majority want to increase the supply of coins, they'll run a client which increases the supply of coins.  If the economic minority still don't want to increase the supply, they can keep the supply and that's perfectly fine.  The same applies with all of the other consensus rules, such as the block size.

Another major weakness of Bitcoin is transparency.  In order for the public to hold the elites accountable for their monetary actions, however partially, the easier it is to observe and monitor the system, the better.

Handing gold from one place to another is almost 100% untraceable, just like physical cash.  Moving Bitcoin is many times more transparent because every single transaction is accessible on a public ledger.  That means that you could see banks shifting money between each other and all other economic activity that takes place.  BTC would massively increase transparency unless banks attempted to keep their addresses hidden, but that would be tough since people can see the addresses they deposit to (if they even deposit to a bank at all).

Lmao…truly for those old fashion men. Fools keeps on talking trash about Bitcoin; saying things that don’t even have meaning, while experts are a whole lot busy making money through Bitcoin. I’ve seen some people said all sorts bad words against Bitcoin, but are now investing into it. Let them keep on wasting time, while others quietly makes money.

[bitgoldpanther1978]

Maybe for you Bitcoin is not a good money, but for most bitcoin community here it is a good currency where many of here helped by bitcoin.
They used bitcoin in so many ways, whether in savings, investment, trading, and many more.