Bitcoin Is Not Really A Good Money

[Baofeng]

There are another fews problems with Bitcoin. You might want to include them in here. First of all, Bitcoin’s price is pretty volatile. Just to give you a sense of its volatility, just look at the price chart of Bitcoin a few days ago. Bitcoin price dropped almost 300$USD in the space of 2 hours! That is amazingly bad. Such a characteristic makes Bitcoin a terrible currency. The second characteristic is the freaking high transaction fee. I payed freaking 0.00115742 to transact 0.00396661BTC to another account! Far out! Fiat fees are like a few cents. And here I am paying $6! So as you can see, Bitcoin is not a very good currency at all. The only good thing about it is its decentralised platform and peer to peer network. I still have hope that transaction fees will decrease.

Transactions fee will decrease as infra become more and more developed. Competition between different exchanges and wallets, financed on ICOs and with other venture capital should push fees down. The other point is what to do with the speed of transactions.

Segwit has been activated a few days ago so I don't know if we can feel the impact of it right now or we just needed a few more months of so. If miners would have upgraded their software to support Segwit then it will be a breeze to make transaction and we don't need to pay high fees because it is design like that isn't it?

I think exchanges should lower the fees now if really Segwit becomes successful. I guess its really up to the individual to still used bitcoin or go to altcoins to pay less fees and faster confirmation if you keep on complaining about it.

[planfox]

Bitcoin is a modern currency of the future and good money. Perhaps he has some minor shortcomings in the form of high fees, but they will be covered by a rapid price increase that will make many people rich.

[iv4n]

There are another fews problems with Bitcoin. You might want to include them in here. First of all, Bitcoin’s price is pretty volatile. Just to give you a sense of its volatility, just look at the price chart of Bitcoin a few days ago. Bitcoin price dropped almost 300$USD in the space of 2 hours! That is amazingly bad. Such a characteristic makes Bitcoin a terrible currency. The second characteristic is the freaking high transaction fee. I payed freaking 0.00115742 to transact 0.00396661BTC to another account! Far out! Fiat fees are like a few cents. And here I am paying $6! So as you can see, Bitcoin is not a very good currency at all. The only good thing about it is its decentralised platform and peer to peer network. I still have hope that transaction fees will decrease.

Transactions fee will decrease as infra become more and more developed. Competition between different exchanges and wallets, financed on ICOs and with other venture capital should push fees down. The other point is what to do with the speed of transactions.

Segwit has been activated a few days ago so I don't know if we can feel the impact of it right now or we just needed a few more months of so. If miners would have upgraded their software to support Segwit then it will be a breeze to make transaction and we don't need to pay high fees because it is design like that isn't it?

I think exchanges should lower the fees now if really Segwit becomes successful. I guess its really up to the individual to still used bitcoin or go to altcoins to pay less fees and faster confirmation if you keep on complaining about it.

Wallets should also lower transaction fees, its not normal how high they are. We will see for couple months will that be solved or not, but I will not send bitcoin nowhere. I get so nervous two days ago when I paid 3 mBTC transaction fee, that is 15 dollars!!!! That is a robbery!
I need to complain because bitcoin advertise was low transaction fees, anonymity, what changed!? More people joined, price rises and now let's make fees higher. Bitcoin is turning out into very expensive to use asset. Its not normal transaction fee to be 3 mBTC for 30 mBTC and someone who sending 3 BTC, that favorites rich people, and what is with rest of us?

[Kawasanz]

Bitcoin is actually an electronic or digital payment instrument, where elites want payment systems through bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies by ignoring paper currency. It is true that transparent bitcoin weakness is the absence of an authoritative body that can control, even though banks, governments and society in general , But indirect progress has proved that bitcoin will become a necessity in the future

[ALT67890]

No, bitcoin or any fiat currency has its unwanted features. Yes it isn't perfect but I think we do positive thinking first than looking for what is bad to it, really won't do good to you and bitcoin also. I do hate also the high fee but that is part of what bitcoin increases meant.

[BobK71]

It doesn't matter even if the elites are gettinf benefits from it who cares bitcoin is allowing us to hide from government agencies, paying unnecessary tax for funding the military to kill innocent people and also it is a free currency meaning no one from the top can know how much i have unlike banks any executive manager can have information about you

Yes, as you imply, Bitcoin is a lot better than fiat.  But not as good as gold.  Maybe it's 90%, 95% of gold (taking a crude, one-dimensional evaluation of merit here).

But my point is that, if the monetary system leaves even a 1% hole open for the elites to abuse it, they will find it.  So, 99% is not good enough.

Now, as I mentioned in the OP, even gold is not good enough.  But that weakness applies to cryptos as well, and crytos open up whole new ways of abuse.

In the grand scheme of things, promoting crypto represents a retreat by the elites, similar to letting gold go up.  But this retreat is a lot less embarrassing for them, and in fact is not as far a retreat as promoting gold (due to the non-physical nature of crypto.)  So it is a good idea from their point of view.

In the very final analysis, what will be good enough can only be public awareness.  That is why, this is a thousand year battle.  The battle is nevertheless worth fighting.

[BobK71]

Yes the worst part is that some people figure out that bitcoin was designed to replace gold, silver, platinum or dollars. This is not true, bitcoin was created to provide unique experience for peer to peer payments. We all need to know this before start blaming bitcoin or complain about it.

I think limited supply is key.  It is why savers want Bitcoin, and indeed why the elites are promoting it (since, as I mentioned in a link from the OP, they ultimately need a sound money too.)  In this key aspect, it plays the same role as gold.

[alyssa85]

Wallets should also lower transaction fees, its not normal how high they are. We will see for couple months will that be solved or not, but I will not send bitcoin nowhere. I get so nervous two days ago when I paid 3 mBTC transaction fee, that is 15 dollars!!!! That is a robbery!
I need to complain because bitcoin advertise was low transaction fees, anonymity, what changed!? More people joined, price rises and now let's make fees higher. Bitcoin is turning out into very expensive to use asset. Its not normal transaction fee to be 3 mBTC for 30 mBTC and someone who sending 3 BTC, that favorites rich people, and what is with rest of us?

It's not the fault of the wallets. They estimate the fees by looking at the size of the mempool. If it is huge, then the fees automatically rise. The only way they fall is if the mempool is empty - and given the 1mg blocksize and the lack of use of segwit, the only way the mempool will drop is if people don't use bitcoin.

[BobK71]

One might say world markets decide which money is good or bad. Good money prospers and increases in value while bad money devalues/hyperinflates as its worth diminishes.

If Charles Darwin were alive today he could write a theory of money evolution where markets are defined by a survival of the fittest credo which determines good, strong, money survives while bad, weak, money perishes and is eliminated from the global financial gene pool.

As Charles Darwin isn't here, how do we define what good money or bad money is?

Thank you for bringing this up.  This is very key.

First of all, the world is messed up precisely because money is not a free market (at least for the last 500+ years, in the West.)  Basically, after the Renaissance showed that humans can now produce a lot of real wealth, the top politicians and bankers learned to form an alliance to gain huge profits by using state power to manipulate the values of money, debt, and most other financial assets, while making the economy look like a free market.

In this system, the elites certainly don't let the best money win -- if they did, gold and silver would be worth a lot more today.  (They have been trying to convince us gold is a bad money, over the last 45 years, and there is also a narrow definition of 'good' and 'bad' money under Gresham's Law.)

Good vs. bad money, as I used the phrases, only applies to what is good for an honest system that allows everyone to earn as they deserve, and that makes it unnecessary for the elites to use war and other violent means to defend their deceptive system.

[BobK71]

Iwanted to just say that in all reality, the elites aren't affected by bitcoin right now at all.

Oh, I'll bet that this is very mistaken...

The bond/stock market is somewhere around tens of trillions of dolalrs  or hundreds of trillions of dollars of value.

The total marketcap of  all coins is about 154 Billion USD. That is very small compared to stock/bond market. The elites make their money in stocks/bonds.

A new thing coming out with ICOs all the time can greatly affect their earnings though, as investors will now likely start to notice ICOs and not put that money into stocks/bonds any more.

We are decades away from it making a real impact I would say.

Stocks, bonds, etc. are all based on state-issued money.  The majority of rich people spend most of their time with these, yes.

But the inner circle of power pays special attention to non-state-issued monies, for a variety of reasons, and in a variety of ways.  (See the link from my original post as an example.)

The small market cap of Bitcoin only makes it more attractive for the elites to secretly promote as
an alternative to gold for the role of non-state-issued store of value.  For one, it's cheaper for the elites to acquire and store for future use (for market manipulation, and 'cheap' is only in the sense of minimizing inflation, since the elites can print unlimited dollars and euro.)  For another, Bitcoin's price can grow a lot without embarrassing the elites, since they never tried to fix its price explicitly.  A big growth of value will help adoption of Bitcoin by the public and thus establish it as a legitimate store of value.

[BobK71]

The worst kind of fool is an educated fool. Real talk. 😐

I totally agree!  I have my own stories to tell too...  Only, we have to argue on the basis of facts as well as concepts, since there is no real alternative.

[tweetbit]

If gold and most fiat currency is created by greedy officials in government and how they used it for personal interest is a big question. If manipulation being thrown around gold it will be detectable as it is personally been in circulation for some time. But telling me that bitcoin is something bad money won't be just any thing I will easily believe in to. Don't bother because I think it's wrong.

[Coffee135]

Iwanted to just say that in all reality, the elites aren't affected by bitcoin right now at all.

Oh, I'll bet that this is very mistaken...

The bond/stock market is somewhere around tens of trillions of dolalrs  or hundreds of trillions of dollars of value.

The total marketcap of  all coins is about 154 Billion USD. That is very small compared to stock/bond market. The elites make their money in stocks/bonds.

A new thing coming out with ICOs all the time can greatly affect their earnings though, as investors will now likely start to notice ICOs and not put that money into stocks/bonds any more.

We are decades away from it making a real impact I would say.

Stocks, bonds, etc. are all based on state-issued money.  The majority of rich people spend most of their time with these, yes.

But the inner circle of power pays special attention to non-state-issued monies, for a variety of reasons, and in a variety of ways.  (See the link from my original post as an example.)

The small market cap of Bitcoin only makes it more attractive for the elites to secretly promote as
an alternative to gold for the role of non-state-issued store of value.  For one, it's cheaper for the elites to acquire and store for future use (for market manipulation, and 'cheap' is only in the sense of minimizing inflation, since the elites can print unlimited dollars and euro.)  For another, Bitcoin's price can grow a lot without embarrassing the elites, since they never tried to fix its price explicitly.  A big growth of value will help adoption of Bitcoin by the public and thus establish it as a legitimate store of value.

The price growth of bitcoin is inevitable, but that is a good quality only for the owners of the coins. Such a high price may deter potential users. Who can afford to buy bitcoins at $ 4,500? But if you're new to bitcoin? For the successful development of a bitcoin needs to exist a labour market with payment in bitcoins. The more people have bitcoins the faster to develop the crypto economy.

[GoodLuck2]

There are another fews problems with Bitcoin. You might want to include them in here. First of all, Bitcoin’s price is pretty volatile. Just to give you a sense of its volatility, just look at the price chart of Bitcoin a few days ago. Bitcoin price dropped almost 300$USD in the space of 2 hours! That is amazingly bad. Such a characteristic makes Bitcoin a terrible currency. The second characteristic is the freaking high transaction fee. I payed freaking 0.00115742 to transact 0.00396661BTC to another account! Far out! Fiat fees are like a few cents. And here I am paying $6! So as you can see, Bitcoin is not a very good currency at all. The only good thing about it is its decentralised platform and peer to peer network. I still have hope that transaction fees will decrease.

Transactions fee will decrease as infra become more and more developed. Competition between different exchanges and wallets, financed on ICOs and with other venture capital should push fees down. The other point is what to do with the speed of transactions.

Indeed! The transaction fees are not that big problem. With passage of time, they will decrease making all us happier. Speed of transactions is okay for me but I have come across certain threads where people have problem with the speed like it took them even two days sometimes to make a transaction. If this is the case, strict action should be taken soon.

[Koadharber]

There are another fews problems with Bitcoin. You might want to include them in here. First of all, Bitcoin’s price is pretty volatile. Just to give you a sense of its volatility, just look at the price chart of Bitcoin a few days ago. Bitcoin price dropped almost 300$USD in the space of 2 hours! That is amazingly bad. Such a characteristic makes Bitcoin a terrible currency. The second characteristic is the freaking high transaction fee. I payed freaking 0.00115742 to transact 0.00396661BTC to another account! Far out! Fiat fees are like a few cents. And here I am paying $6! So as you can see, Bitcoin is not a very good currency at all. The only good thing about it is its decentralised platform and peer to peer network. I still have hope that transaction fees will decrease.

Transactions fee will decrease as infra become more and more developed. Competition between different exchanges and wallets, financed on ICOs and with other venture capital should push fees down. The other point is what to do with the speed of transactions.

Indeed! The transaction fees are not that big problem. With passage of time, they will decrease making all us happier. Speed of transactions is okay for me but I have come across certain threads where people have problem with the speed like it took them even two days sometimes to make a transaction. If this is the case, strict action should be taken soon.

Delayed transactions do really have the reasons why they do wait for those longer periods of time on which they possibly put small tx fee or the network is congested together on the time that they make transfers. This is the only flaws that i can see on bitcoin as of now. Its anonymity features would really give some negative impressions but wont matter since most people are using it on positive side.

[gredisgold88]

I know, Bitcoin is designed to be as free from central bank and politician control as possible.  It is open-source, decentralized, etc.

But if you think about it, Bitcoin is still fundamentally worse than gold and silver as a truly free money.

First things first: all of gold, silver and Bitcoin are subject to central bank manipulation by pegging.  When central banks store up enough non-state money, they can sell that money for a fixed dollar or pound price, and thus suppress any appreciation of the non-state money in currency terms.  This enables the elites to acquire wealth and power for free, by issuing state currency and debt, as long as the central bank has enough of the non-state money to fight off any 'run on the bank.'

This was the real nature of the gold and silver standards through most of modern history, that mainstream economists praised for stabilizing state currencies and economies, at that time.  (Of course, they are now firmly against the gold standard, thus both times saying the elites' system was/is good for the economy.)

That said, Bitcoin suffers from the additional problem that it's secured not by physics, but by algorithm.  Algorithms can change.  Algorithms are only guarded by humans who are subject to persuasion.  At some point, the elites will have issued too many IOUs against the Bitcoin in their vaults.  Either we increase the issuance limit from 21 million, or we get a financial crisis and depression.  I imagine most of the developers will be open to talking.  (BTW, some version of this is almost guaranteed to happen, due to the nature of the world system.  For example, all countries have defaulted on their promises to redeem gold at a fixed price.)

This is in contrast to gold and silver, where violating the limit of issuance is physically impossible (or very expensive, with radioactive reactions.)

Another major weakness of Bitcoin is transparency.  In order for the public to hold the elites accountable for their monetary actions, however partially, the easier it is to observe and monitor the system, the better.  The reality is that computer networks and data structures are not easy for most of the public to understand, compared to the age-old concept of holding physical metals.

And we know from experience that the elites take full advantage of lack of public understanding.  Besides the 'gold standard good, gold standard bad' flip-flop by establishment economists, almost every major issue of finance is distorted before the public receive the wisdom passed down to it by the media (and this includes, maybe especially includes, channels tailored to the highly educated, like The Economist magazine and America's PBS television.)  Southeast Asia in the 90s, Greece recently, and Germany between world wars were made to suffer deflation after their financial crises, and the economic justification was 'moral hazard.'  The US was allowed to print devalued money to ease the pain after its own financial crises, and the economic justification was Keynesian pain relief.  (The real reason for the differentiation was that American voters had more power to disrupt the elites' system than those other populations.)

With Bitcoin so much easier to manipulate than gold and silver, no wonder, all the signs are that the elites will promote Bitcoin as the store of value of the future.  This makes even more sense when you consider it would be embarassing for the elites to promote gold or silver instead, since their prices would have to rise to a level much higher than the last time the elites tried to fix them.  Gold has appreciated 30 time since the elites' fixed postwar price of $35/ounce, and would likely have to appreciate another 30 times before a new (de-facto) gold standard can become stable.  This does not make the elites' money look good.  Bitcoin has no such history, and the elites can claim (and likely be believed) that they are merely moving money onto a new, electronic foundation that is more stable than a totally fiat system.

As I mentioned before, the elites must secretly nurture, if not openly promote, some form of safe store of value that is totally trusted by the public.  In today's world, that can only mean non-state-issued money.  The only question is which.

how? , it is very difficult to understand" how is new added bitcoin . " , the creation of bitcoin from origin is 21 million? , the unfortunate bitcoin is the price monopoly. but it does not matter if it only uses as a transfer of wealth by calculating the $ value of bitcoin, yes it depends on the individual.

[adam1230]

3-4 years ago bitcoin transaction fee was nice so i was sending money with bitcoin. not its around 2-3$ so its same as local banks. So why do i need to send money using bitcoin?
Then is started to use alt coins but there is a big problem here on local bitcoin exchanges altcoins not supported. So now its a good choice to send money with local banks.

[neonshium]

Bitcoin is a modern currency of the future and good money. Perhaps he has some minor shortcomings in the form of high fees, but they will be covered by a rapid price increase that will make many people rich.

Everything have downfalls, it is not a new thing. The beauty and aptitude bitcoin have in market, and the people loving it in many regards is superior over a few loopholes or shortcomings of bitcoin. Yeah high fee is the issue but this issue is being handled and you can see fee have been reduced.

[richmcrich]

There are another fews problems with Bitcoin. You might want to include them in here. First of all, Bitcoin’s price is pretty volatile. Just to give you a sense of its volatility, just look at the price chart of Bitcoin a few days ago. Bitcoin price dropped almost 300$USD in the space of 2 hours! That is amazingly bad. Such a characteristic makes Bitcoin a terrible currency. The second characteristic is the freaking high transaction fee. I payed freaking 0.00115742 to transact 0.00396661BTC to another account! Far out! Fiat fees are like a few cents. And here I am paying $6! So as you can see, Bitcoin is not a very good currency at all. The only good thing about it is its decentralised platform and peer to peer network. I still have hope that transaction fees will decrease.

Transactions fee will decrease as infra become more and more developed. Competition between different exchanges and wallets, financed on ICOs and with other venture capital should push fees down. The other point is what to do with the speed of transactions.

Indeed! The transaction fees are not that big problem. With passage of time, they will decrease making all us happier. Speed of transactions is okay for me but I have come across certain threads where people have problem with the speed like it took them even two days sometimes to make a transaction. If this is the case, strict action should be taken soon.

Yes you are right. Transaction fee is something which pinches the investors. But compared to what we are getting in return from Bitcoin, this transaction fee hardly matters. Even then it won’t take much to settle up all the things like fee and time required. These are the things which will be in control in near future.

[Rajamuda]

Seen in general indeed is not good money, and it is still not really official around the world, but after many peoples who proved that bitcoin can boost finance, i think bitcoin is one of the good ways used to earn money and give many opportunities for many people to earn money and reduce unemployment which without job anymore on their life. So bitcoin can be said a good money to everyone i guess.