2013-05-20 theRegister- Canadian regulators welcome US Bitcoin refugees...

[impulse]

I think most of the time the US don't get pressured by Canadian policy. It's mostly the other way. If the US don't like Bitcoin they will pressure Canada to follow their policy.

That's typically been true, but if the U.S. is something of a loner on this issue I don't think that the Canadian government would buckle so easily if there is growth potential and support from other nations.

[impulse]

ummm, don't mean to be a skeptic but how can this be possible given that they've been shutting down exchanges bank accounts recently?

They (FINTRAC) didn't shutdown any exchange bank account. The bank did it all by themselves.

you're right.  so does this mean those banks will be required to reinstate the accounts?

and will we thus see the return of those exchanges?  which were shut down again?  Cavirtex?

Virtex has had several accounts frozen but they are still operating and hold an open account with the Bank of Montreal I believe. I have an account with Virtex that I have never had trouble accessing or sending money to.

even now?

Yep. Here is a list of their deposit options:

https://www.cavirtex.com/deposit_methods

I use the bill pay method because it is so convenient, takes a bit longer but it's free.

[01BTC10]

ummm, don't mean to be a skeptic but how can this be possible given that they've been shutting down exchanges bank accounts recently?

They (FINTRAC) didn't shutdown any exchange bank account. The bank did it all by themselves.

you're right.  so does this mean those banks will be required to reinstate the accounts?

and will we thus see the return of those exchanges?  which were shut down again?  Cavirtex?

Virtex has had several accounts frozen but they are still operating and hold an open account with the Bank of Montreal I believe. I have an account with Virtex that I have never had trouble accessing or sending money to.

even now?

What is even more funny is that I still use bill pay via RBC the bank that closed their account.  

[minimalB]

If this news is true, wow, what a huge one! Thanks for the info!

[aigeezer]

...with open arms.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/20/canada_welcomes_bitcoin_traders_fintrac_letter/

"The Register has seen a letter from the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada (FINTRAC) which was sent to several prominent Bitcoin exchanges in the country, explaining they are exempt from strict money-laundering laws."

An oddly proactive move : looks like 'the government' won't have things so easy after all (thanks to the indefinite article)

The biggest trade on Cavirtex today so far is "May 20, 2013, 04:45:42   116.00000   61.84   " - that is 61.84 BTC at $116 CDN. Most of the day's transactions were each well under 1 BTC.

Not much money to be laundered there! Kind of funny really, imagining all the bureaucrats working themselves into a lather over the potential issue.

[Brunic]

This is awesome! 

I think most of the time the US don't get pressured by Canadian policy. It's mostly the other way. If the US don't like Bitcoin they will pressure Canada to follow their policy.

You could be surprised at how much there is resistance against USA policy. Honestly, your country is pretty bad at making good social policies and you are usually the inspiration of "what should NOT be done".

[kibblesnbits]

Time to learn how to speak Canadian?

Not too hard -

English: about.  Canadian: aboot.
English: house.  Canadian: hoose.

Unless you're in Quebec region, then it's all Greek to me.


Edit: Go Canada!

[marcus_of_augustus]

The letter said: "Your entity is not, at this time, engaged as a money services business in Canada as per the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing and its associated Regulations.

"In fact, your entity doesn’t provide the services of remitting and/or transferring funds for the sake of the service. The transfer of funds is simply a corollary of your actual service of buying and selling virtual currency. Therefore, you do not have to register your entity with us."

This is how I interpretted it originally ... basically bitcoin exchanges facilitate the buying/selling of virtual currency ... much like a commodity exchange ... if people want to use those assets to transfer value that is a corollary (and not something the exchange has any control over). Basically, the laws surrounding "lawful money" do not apply to virtual currencies.

That whole FinCen 'guideline' sounds like a hand-wavy fix-up because they just wanted to back fit a prosecution on to Gox's Dwolla account.

[Brunic]

Unless you're in Quebec region, then it's all Greek to me.

Tabarnak d'esti de calisse, kossé tu comprends pas?

(Good luck with Google Translate  )

[kibblesnbits]

All I got was the 1/4 French at the end "do you understand?" 

I'm 1/2 French Canadian

[01BTC10]

Osti de caliss de saint sacrament c'est pas chinoix criss de tabarnak.

[aigeezer]

Osti de caliss de saint sacrament c'est pas chinoix criss de tabarnak.

Some maudit anglais might look it up in Wiki though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French_profanity       

Two solitudes.         

[ArticMine]

The letter said: "Your entity is not, at this time, engaged as a money services business in Canada as per the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing and its associated Regulations.

"In fact, your entity doesn’t provide the services of remitting and/or transferring funds for the sake of the service. The transfer of funds is simply a corollary of your actual service of buying and selling virtual currency. Therefore, you do not have to register your entity with us."

This is how I interpretted it originally ... basically bitcoin exchanges facilitate the buying/selling of virtual currency ... much like a commodity exchange ... if people want to use those assets to transfer value that is a corollary (and not something the exchange has any control over). Basically, the laws surrounding "lawful money" do not apply to virtual currencies.

That whole FinCen 'guideline' sounds like a hand-wavy fix-up because they just wanted to back fit a prosecution on to Gox's Dwolla account.

The FINTRAC position is essentially the same as that of the US regulator FinCen. The key difference is that the Canadian exchanges are limiting themselves to the trading of BTC for fiat while MTGox is not.  Take a look at this from https://mtgox.com/terms_of_service:

PLATFORM TRANSACTION PROCESS FOR BITCOIN TRANSFER TRANSACTIONS

Members may at any time transfer any amount of Bitcoins to any other Members as well as any other Bitcoin users even if they are not Members (the “Transferee”).

Bitcoin Transfer Transactions may be initiated at any time from the following page: https://mtgox.com/index.html. Transferees shall be identified by their bitcoin address.

Members shall be solely responsible for ensuring that any transfer of Bitcoins to a Transferee shall be a valid and legal transaction not infringing any laws including money-laundering laws and regulations.

Mt. Gox’s responsibility shall be limited to using reasonable technical efforts to ensure the receipt of the Bitcoins transferred. When conducting Bitcoin Transfer Transactions with a Bitcoin user who is not a Member, Mt. Gox’s responsibility shall be further limited to ensuring the transfer of the necessary technical data to the Bitcoin peer-to-peer network.

No Commission of any kind will be charged by Mt. Gox for Bitcoin Transfer Transactions.

PLATFORM TRANSACTION PROCESS FOR CURRENCY TRANSFER TRANSACTIONS

Members may at any time transfer any amount of currencies held on their Account to any other Members (the “Transferee”). Transfers to third parties who are not Members is not possible.

Currency Transfer Transactions may be initiated at any time from the following page: https://mtgox.com/index.html. Transferees shall be identified by their Account name.

Members shall be solely responsible for ensuring that any transfer of currencies to a Transferee shall be a valid and legal transaction not infringing any laws including money-laundering laws and regulations.

Mt. Gox’s responsibility shall be limited to using reasonable technical efforts to ensure the receipt of the currencies transferred.

No Commission of any kind will be charged by Mt. Gox for Currency Transfer Transactions, except when the Account of the Transferee is set up in a currency different than the currency transferred (in which case the 2.5% Commission shall automatically apply).

If this is not a red flag in front of the US regulators and clearly indicates a money transfer business as opposed to an exchange business,  I do not know what is. If a Canadian Bitcoin exchange tried that same I would not be surprised if the Canadian regulators were all over them also.  The issue here is not that there is a material difference between United States and Canadian regulations in this case, there infact is not, but rather than the Canadian Bitcoin exchanges are not also engaging in the transfer of money, like PayPal, e-gold etc on the side.

[Brunic]

All I got was the 1/4 French at the end "do you understand?" 

I'm 1/2 French Canadian

New-Brunswick? Ontario? I can't translate the rest of the sentence, it's high-end profanity and there's no real equivalent in english. You have things like "holy fucking shit", but it's way too tame  Check the wikipedia link from aigeezer.

Some maudit anglais might look it up in Wiki though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French_profanity       

Two solitudes.         

Hahaha, we could talk a long way about that. It's strange how Canada feels so alien to me sometimes and how I don't belong to that country. It's sad because canadians are really awesome people and that sort of political confusion really make things weird sometimes. 

[giantdragon]

Bank can accept or refuse whatever client they want and don't have to justify themselves.

BTW, in the EU recently was passed law explicitly prohibiting this practice.

[BTC Books]

You could be surprised at how much there is resistance against USA policy. Honestly, your country is pretty bad at making good social policies and you are usually the inspiration of "what should NOT be done".

Somebody has to set the bar.

You're welcome.

[Bowjob]

Honestly though, I've maybe heard of 1 instance of "eh". I've never heard of "aboot". Been living in Vancouver for 8 years now, we just speak just like Americans but more polite.

[oakpacific]

Guess what, we already have an exchange run by a big corporation, and unlikely to be shutdown by authorities anytime soon. http://wmeng.exchanger.ru/asp/wmlist.asp

[CanadianGuy]

Honestly though, I've maybe heard of 1 instance of "eh". I've never heard of "aboot". Been living in Vancouver for 8 years now, we just speak just like Americans but more polite.

The closer to the US border you are, the more americanized people tend to be, and the less the Canadian accent. 
Listen to the hosers in northern Alberta or Saskatchewan talk, and it gets pretty bad. 

[Piper67]

Honestly though, I've maybe heard of 1 instance of "eh". I've never heard of "aboot". Been living in Vancouver for 8 years now, we just speak just like Americans but more polite.

The closer to the US border you are, the more americanized people tend to be, and the less the Canadian accent. 
Listen to the hosers in northern Alberta or Saskatchewan talk, and it gets pretty bad. 

And about 90 percent of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US border... I say we start pushing the border south