Lighting Network and Segwit 2x newbie questions?

[very_452001]

When do you guys think Lightning Network will activate on BTC or there's no guarantee it wont happen?

Does Lightning Network solves BTC scalability issues for BTC life or is it just of 1 of many upgrades that will come in the future.

If Bitcoin becomes mainstream like visa/mastercard and that point each bitcoin is worth $million each then whats the best scalability for bitcoin that can handle the demand at that time and still be decentralised?

Will lightning network will activate before segwit 2x in November?

Will Segwit 2x be the same like bitcoin cash hard fork on Aug 1st, that is it will be a hard fork like bitcoin cash and will we get a free airdrop for segwit 2x like we did with bitcoin cash?

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[Variogam]

You need user friendly software and services making changes as well before Lightning Network become widespread inside Bitcoin comunity. Might take some time, first integrations might be this year, but I expect Lightning Network become widespread inside Bitcoin comunity next year.

Lightning Network does not solve the scalability problem though, there are only limited amout of Bitcoin Lightning Network channels you can open/close every day - no more than few hundred thousand every day.

The aidrop attitude is pretty stupid, because if you sell something, you dont have it anymore. Plus it going to be exchanges who define what Bitcoin is - for example exchanges had no problem keeping name to the forked coin, while the original not forked coin got new name (ETH and ETC). So I expect the one with more hashpower keep Bitcoin name.

[unamis76]

When do you guys think Lightning Network will activate on BTC or there's no guarantee it wont happen?

Nobody knows and there's no guarantee it will happen

Does Lightning Network solves BTC scalability issues for BTC life or is it just of 1 of many upgrades that will come in the future.

It doesn't solve any scalability issue with Bitcoin, as it is an off chain solution.

If Bitcoin becomes mainstream like visa/mastercard and that point each bitcoin is worth $million each then whats the best scalability for bitcoin that can handle the demand at that time and still be decentralised?

I don't think anyone can answer this so far.

Will Segwit 2x be the same like bitcoin cash hard fork on Aug 1st, that is it will be a hard fork like bitcoin cash and will we get a free airdrop for segwit 2x like we did with bitcoin cash?

No, SegWit2x is a scalability proposal to Bitcoin. It's supposed to integrate with Bitcoin and not fork to an altcoin at a certain date. But answering your question more directly, yeah, things can fork and get ugly if some decide for 2x and others don't. Let's hope this doesn't happen.

[very_452001]

You need user friendly software and services making changes as well before Lightning Network become widespread inside Bitcoin comunity. Might take some time, first integrations might be this year, but I expect Lightning Network become widespread inside Bitcoin comunity next year.

Lightning Network does not solve the scalability problem though, there are only limited amout of Bitcoin Lightning Network channels you can open/close every day - no more than few hundred thousand every day.

The aidrop attitude is pretty stupid, because if you sell something, you dont have it anymore. Plus it going to be exchanges who define what Bitcoin is - for example exchanges had no problem keeping name to the forked coin, while the original not forked coin got new name (ETH and ETC). So I expect the one with more hashpower keep Bitcoin name.

Ok you think there will be user friendly software and services next year when lighting network becomes widespread?

If LN does not solve the scalability issues then what does without sacrificing its decentralisation status?

[very_452001]

Whats the latest with lightning now?

Also with the segwit 2x nya agreement does that mean it's a agreement in a contract meaning people who signed the contract cannot back out of it?

[cr1776]

Whats the latest with lightning now?

Also with the segwit 2x nya agreement does that mean it's a agreement in a contract meaning people who signed the contract cannot back out of it?

To me, the agreement reads like a memorandum of understanding,
see https://medium.com/@DCGco/bitcoin-scaling-agreement-at-consensus-2017-133521fe9a77

The NYA doesn't read like a typical contract with precise terms, requirements, dates, specific performance requirements etc.  That said, anyone can try to litigate anything and no doubt someone at some point will try.

But things like "We agree to immediately support the following parallel upgrades to the bitcoin protocol" are easy to say, okay, we did immediately support it. Now it has been a month so we didn't agree to continue to support it forever etc. Definitely wasn't drawn up with terms that I would rely on to be enforceable. 

[very_452001]

So everything will be the same drama in november like bitcoin cash in Aug?

Meaning I will get free airdrop segwit 2x bitcoins in november that I can sell like bitcoin cash?

[25hashcoin]

Segwit and LN are both scams and not Bitcoin. Sell BTC and buy Bitcoin Cash. It's the real Bitcoin.

[Variogam]

So everything will be the same drama in november like bitcoin cash in Aug?

Meaning I will get free airdrop segwit 2x bitcoins in november that I can sell like bitcoin cash?

If lucky you will get some Bcore coin airdrop in November to sell. SegWit2x is already activated and integral part of Bitcoin.

[very_452001]

So everything will be the same drama in november like bitcoin cash in Aug?

Meaning I will get free airdrop segwit 2x bitcoins in november that I can sell like bitcoin cash?

If lucky you will get some Bcore coin airdrop in November to sell. SegWit2x is already activated and integral part of Bitcoin.

I thought segwit 2x gets activated in november right?

[Variogam]

I thought segwit 2x gets activated in november right?

No further activation required, SegWit2x is already activated. Thats what bit 4 was used for. What you refer to is requirement for first over 1M Bitcoin base block after three months which is indeed in November. But it is automatic, the same as SegWit was first enforced about two weeks after SegWit2x activation.

[very_452001]

Ok so there wont be no hard fork come november as segwit2x will be a soft fork instead?

[Variogam]

Ok so there wont be no hard fork come november as segwit2x will be a soft fork instead?

SegWit2x is soft fork for some Bitcoin software (like old BU releases), while hard fork for other. So while some people have to upgrade if they want continue following Bitcoin chain, others dont need to as their software is compatible already.

Miners are united, so no new blocks for not compatible software from November - good hint if someone software dont follow Bitcoin chain anymore.

[industria77]

The picture is nowhere near as simple as portrayed above:

• Miners are not "all" united, and either way – miners will mine the profitable chain no matter what they signal, BCH was proof of that
• Users seem to be overwhelmingly in favor of following the recommendation of the Core developers and NOT adopting Segwit 2x
• Segwit was activated on BTC, but 2x has not been yet and is slated for Nov17-18 – 2x is supported by most miners and exchanges but opposed by the Core developers. as a result of this corporatist influence, the Segwit2x coin is being derisively labeled "bizcoin"

[DooMAD]

The picture is nowhere near as simple as portrayed above:

• Miners are not "all" united, and either way – miners will mine the profitable chain no matter what they signal, BCH was proof of that
• Users seem to be overwhelmingly in favor of following the recommendation of the Core developers and NOT adopting Segwit 2x
• Segwit was activated on BTC, but 2x has not been yet and is slated for Nov17-18 – 2x is supported by most miners and exchanges but opposed by the Core developers. as a result of this corporatist influence, the Segwit2x coin is being derisively labeled "bizcoin"

I'd say it's certainly not a foregone conclusion, but it's safe to say this is going to be nothing like BCH was.  If the hashrate is largely united, plus if 2x doesn't implement replay protection and there are enough supporting non-mining full nodes to relay 2x transactions effectively, it's possible that users running SPV wallets, whatever their vocal preference might be, might just be swept along into the 2x chain.  In such a scenario, they'd need to run a full node enforcing the SegWit-Only ruleset in order to remain on what might turn out to be a minority SegWit-Only chain.  Some of those users will have neither the resources or/nor the inclination to do so.  It's also possible that due to the difficulty adjustments taking a bit of time to occur, attempting to transact on a minority chain after the fork could be potentially very slow and inconvenient.  Many might just follow the path of least resistance and "whatever works".  If you feel strongly against 2x and are willing to endure some slow confirmation times to support Core's vision, you ideally need to be running a full node, just to be on the safe side.

And while SPV users are potentially passengers in all this, there's also the question of those relying on "trusted" third parties to store their coins.  They're definitely passengers and have very little say in any of this.  Sadly, I think there are more of those users than there should be.  Literally everyone here was born into a world where it's considered normal to trust other people with the task of looking after your money and not everyone seems to be able to break the habit.  Many of them may have a decision made for them that they don't agree with.

But no one knows exactly what's going to happen.  It's very much a case of "wait and see" at this stage.