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Author Topic: Market-wide gains and dips  (Read 650 times)
neuro-artisan
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August 23, 2017, 05:44:51 PM
 #1

What's causing all those market-wide dips and gains, I can see it's happening every now and then.
When you look at the coinmarketcap right now you can see pretty much every coin from top100 is up by X%. What's causing situations like this?

I bet that BTC in general is playing huge role in all of it as its market capitalization is reaching nearly 50%.
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August 23, 2017, 10:56:48 PM
 #2

What's causing all those market-wide dips and gains, I can see it's happening every now and then.
When you look at the coinmarketcap right now you can see pretty much every coin from top100 is up by X%. What's causing situations like this?

Sometimes there are bigger events that causing this, but sometimes just two-three big sell/buy order in siimliar time. People think its rising because of that so they buying. Similiar with selling.
Invisible hand of market, you can't predict it but you can try and guess.

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August 24, 2017, 08:20:22 AM
 #3

What's causing all those market-wide dips and gains, I can see it's happening every now and then.
When you look at the coinmarketcap right now you can see pretty much every coin from top100 is up by X%. What's causing situations like this?

I bet that BTC in general is playing huge role in all of it as its market capitalization is reaching nearly 50%.

correct, it is all about bitcoin but it has nothing to do with its market cap and how big a % it is!
it has always been like this to the point that people call altcoins as penny stocks!

and so far whenever bitcoin price rises, altcoins get dumped. and whenever bitcoin has bad days with big dumps, the altcoins get dumped one more time too.
but when altcoins (or anything really) gets dumped fast and big, they will inevitably make a recovery. it is mainly because people see the dip and see the "low price" and consider it as a chance to purchase. and that brings the price back up.

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August 24, 2017, 01:42:23 PM
 #4

so far whenever bitcoin price rises, altcoins get dumped.
Nope.  They've usually moved together so far this year.

It's not actually logical in the slightest.  I think it's because people have given up on the potential for a coin to actually be used and are now just running along like sheep to follow whatever the price trend is.

Once the price falls they'll say the coin is bad.  Once the price rises they'll say it's great and buy.  That's what happens when you don't have enough "smart money" because there are too many newbies which the whales love to exploit.

As for what causes the initial rise, I would say that it's the mentality of thinking the price is "low" or "high" because people look for low/high value coins and assume that they will go the other way.  It sounds totally stupid but if you go on some boards you'll see what I mean.

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August 24, 2017, 06:23:39 PM
 #5

Thanks for the responses guys. In the end I believe that really good coins with wide user-usage should go up.

Also when do you expect BTC to go down at around 30% of market capitalization? And what other coins will take the lead? I personally believe in ETH as it's the most innovative coin for daily use (I'm still a newbie to the crypto so maybe I said something not fully correct or appropriate).
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August 24, 2017, 07:20:40 PM
 #6

What's causing all those market-wide dips and gains, I can see it's happening every now and then.
When you look at the coinmarketcap right now you can see pretty much every coin from top100 is up by X%. What's causing situations like this?

Sometimes there are bigger events that causing this, but sometimes just two-three big sell/buy order in siimliar time. People think its rising because of that so they buying. Similiar with selling.
Invisible hand of market, you can't predict it but you can try and guess.

Even yesterday there is lots of talk that bitcoin price will be increased due to increase of blocks in segwit but as expected no big change in price instead transaction fee increase in every wallet provider site. Simply don't know what politics happening behind these kind of moves.

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August 25, 2017, 03:14:44 AM
 #7

i am not really sure about 'Huge Role' that Bitcoin role in this market pump or dump.
but i believe that Bitcoin price is the trigger for them to gain profit from it,
many people doing a trade and most of them are a weak hands or i called them an emotional traders,
they will sell it when they see Bitcoin price is surging and their coins holding price decreasing,
even though it's only decreasing a bit,many people will talk about 'DUMP' and something like that.

so in my view,the reason that thing happened because of the whales themself.
of course they did that to get more Bitcoin,but what happen if Bitcoin price is surging ? will they sell it right away ? absolutely no.
they take it as a chance for them to get more Bitcoin and triggering a weak hands,
in my opinion Bitcoin role is as a trigger and the biggest role are the whales.
they can do everything they want if they wish to

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August 25, 2017, 05:15:30 AM
 #8

Those market wide gains and dips are being created by the traders or investors's emotions because the market is not creating a pattern itself because it is all came from the emotion of the people who are in that market and because of that emotions that are mostly caused by the news are good to play with because if we mastered controlling emotion then going into a volatile market is not a big deal anymore.

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August 25, 2017, 05:26:55 AM
 #9

OP, some traders need to cash out at any given time for different reasons. In knowing this, if the trend is up and there is a dip, then it is always a good idea to buy because the dipping of the price is temporary.

This has been always true with Bitcoin since 2014.


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August 25, 2017, 07:20:23 AM
 #10

so far whenever bitcoin price rises, altcoins get dumped.
Nope.  They've usually moved together so far this year.

have you EVER looked at a chart? I am not saying what I explained happens all the time, but in 99% of the times what I explained above is true.

here let me show some charts, maybe you can understand it better.
the following two charts are showing the period of time when bitcoin price went up from $3300 to the near ATH of $4300 from 8 Aug to 15 Aug.
the comparison is between price of ETH in bitcoin and also in dollar.

the blue line is showing bitcoin price in USD in both charts which is rising. and the red line shows the ethereum price which is falling in both markets against BTC and against USD
the swings in ETH/USD is mostly because these are average values and because it was falling against bitcoin price which is rising so it covered a little part of the drop in USD.



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August 25, 2017, 08:08:24 AM
 #11

so far whenever bitcoin price rises, altcoins get dumped.
Nope.  They've usually moved together so far this year.

have you EVER looked at a chart? I am not saying what I explained happens all the time, but in 99% of the times what I explained above is true.

here let me show some charts, maybe you can understand it better.
the following two charts are showing the period of time when bitcoin price went up from $3300 to the near ATH of $4300 from 8 Aug to 15 Aug.
the comparison is between price of ETH in bitcoin and also in dollar.

the blue line is showing bitcoin price in USD in both charts which is rising. and the red line shows the ethereum price which is falling in both markets against BTC and against USD
the swings in ETH/USD is mostly because these are average values and because it was falling against bitcoin price which is rising so it covered a little part of the drop in USD.




I agree with Xavofat that usually(not 100% of the time) other altcoins do rise together with bitcoin. Looking at the charts comparing Bitcoin to Ethereum itself won't be accurate enough as there are alot of altcoins out there that has decent economy; Ethereum just really went down, and I think it's really not related to bitcoin's rise in price. Take a look at the other alts that rose together with bitcoin (e.g. NEO, IOTA, STEEM).

Though I can be wrong, feel free to correct me aswell.

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August 25, 2017, 10:39:30 AM
 #12

so far whenever bitcoin price rises, altcoins get dumped.
Nope.  They've usually moved together so far this year.

have you EVER looked at a chart? I am not saying what I explained happens all the time, but in 99% of the times what I explained above is true.
There are specific instances in which BTC has rose while altcoin prices fall, but the general shape of the chart is about the same.

Very dramatic BTC rise between May 1st to May 25th coincides with ETH rise, dip coincides with ETH dip (ETH dip was smaller), rise after that also ends at June 14th just like BTC, ETH dip lasts longer but it's up again while BTC is rising.

FYI I've been watching Coinmarketcap since the start of April when it all went crazy, and usually you could see that most cryptos are green or most cryptos are red at any one time.

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August 25, 2017, 01:02:22 PM
 #13

-snip-

I agree with Xavofat that usually(not 100% of the time) other altcoins do rise together with bitcoin. Looking at the charts comparing Bitcoin to Ethereum itself won't be accurate enough as there are alot of altcoins out there that has decent economy; Ethereum just really went down, and I think it's really not related to bitcoin's rise in price. Take a look at the other alts that rose together with bitcoin (e.g. NEO, IOTA, STEEM).

Though I can be wrong, feel free to correct me aswell.

ethereum was just an example, you know making each one of those charts took some time from me, they are not just available on the internet for me to go and take a screenshot to share here!
I have to go extract the data for price on each dates for bitcoin and each altcoin (twice: 1 for their BTC value and 1 for their USD value) and then type them in excel and draw the charts in a way to show the lines like that (with 2 sets of data on different scales).

I may do it for a couple of other altcoins later if I can manage to get some free time, but from my experience those 2 charts above are a good representative of what I have been seeing so far.
obviously there are exceptions such as NEO to this rule and there is a good explanation for it too. NEO changed its name and had a very nice pump and hype recently and that is an exception.

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August 26, 2017, 03:49:15 AM
 #14

-snip-

I agree with Xavofat that usually(not 100% of the time) other altcoins do rise together with bitcoin. Looking at the charts comparing Bitcoin to Ethereum itself won't be accurate enough as there are alot of altcoins out there that has decent economy; Ethereum just really went down, and I think it's really not related to bitcoin's rise in price. Take a look at the other alts that rose together with bitcoin (e.g. NEO, IOTA, STEEM).

Though I can be wrong, feel free to correct me aswell.

ethereum was just an example, you know making each one of those charts took some time from me, they are not just available on the internet for me to go and take a screenshot to share here!
I have to go extract the data for price on each dates for bitcoin and each altcoin (twice: 1 for their BTC value and 1 for their USD value) and then type them in excel and draw the charts in a way to show the lines like that (with 2 sets of data on different scales).

I may do it for a couple of other altcoins later if I can manage to get some free time, but from my experience those 2 charts above are a good representative of what I have been seeing so far.
obviously there are exceptions such as NEO to this rule and there is a good explanation for it too. NEO changed its name and had a very nice pump and hype recently and that is an exception.

I understand. Anyway, I think we could get an accurate example if we would compare dates and prices of bitcoin to probably 10 altcoins in a single chart. Since yes, there are exceptions, because some altcoins tend to abnormally rise a lot because of hype and lots of shillers on Facebook and Reddit, like Sia in the past, and like what's currently  happening to NEO(good tech, but overhyped imo). You don't have to do it though, I'm just saying. Thanks for the efforts though.  Smiley

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August 28, 2017, 09:59:11 AM
 #15

-snip-

I agree with Xavofat that usually(not 100% of the time) other altcoins do rise together with bitcoin. Looking at the charts comparing Bitcoin to Ethereum itself won't be accurate enough as there are alot of altcoins out there that has decent economy; Ethereum just really went down, and I think it's really not related to bitcoin's rise in price. Take a look at the other alts that rose together with bitcoin (e.g. NEO, IOTA, STEEM).

Though I can be wrong, feel free to correct me aswell.

ethereum was just an example, you know making each one of those charts took some time from me, they are not just available on the internet for me to go and take a screenshot to share here!
I have to go extract the data for price on each dates for bitcoin and each altcoin (twice: 1 for their BTC value and 1 for their USD value) and then type them in excel and draw the charts in a way to show the lines like that (with 2 sets of data on different scales).

I may do it for a couple of other altcoins later if I can manage to get some free time, but from my experience those 2 charts above are a good representative of what I have been seeing so far.
obviously there are exceptions such as NEO to this rule and there is a good explanation for it too. NEO changed its name and had a very nice pump and hype recently and that is an exception.

I understand. Anyway, I think we could get an accurate example if we would compare dates and prices of bitcoin to probably 10 altcoins in a single chart. Since yes, there are exceptions, because some altcoins tend to abnormally rise a lot because of hype and lots of shillers on Facebook and Reddit, like Sia in the past, and like what's currently  happening to NEO(good tech, but overhyped imo). You don't have to do it though, I'm just saying. Thanks for the efforts though.  Smiley

To fairly assess it's hype, we need info of how China sees it internally. It's touted as an ETH type of tech from China. Chinese love their "own" stuff much more than anything. Anyone to give chinese input in here? wish I could read chinese, would make things so much easier. But surely they have a lot of fan fare out there. Their ICO etc launches etc were all just tailored to chinese speakers mostly, that somehow helped me since I held my ICO coins else I might have withdraw and sold ages ago but fact I could not understand how to get them out etc made me end up with a bigger value Cheesy

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August 28, 2017, 10:07:52 AM
 #16

to add to that, anything with Chinese behind them usually have a lot of cash flowing in. Remember how BTC was so much controlled by China alone at the start? GRS is another coin that has got attention from Chinese peeps, and I'm hoping some magic again although it did get pumped a while back but it was too small of a pump for something with so much tech behind them. These guys are constantly developing.

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August 28, 2017, 10:48:23 AM
 #17

Thanks for the responses guys. In the end I believe that really good coins with wide user-usage should go up.

Also when do you expect BTC to go down at around 30% of market capitalization? And what other coins will take the lead? I personally believe in ETH as it's the most innovative coin for daily use (I'm still a newbie to the crypto so maybe I said something not fully correct or appropriate).
Not to sure but theres a possibility for that thing to happen but talking about dipping about 30% on bitcoins price seems impossible to hard to happen as of these days since bitcoin do have a strong support regarding to its price and the main thing why there always swings on the prices on all coins in the market is just really depend on demand or investors on the market together with the upcoming events.

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August 28, 2017, 10:53:36 AM
 #18

to add to that, anything with Chinese behind them usually have a lot of cash flowing in. Remember how BTC was so much controlled by China alone at the start? GRS is another coin that has got attention from Chinese peeps, and I'm hoping some magic again although it did get pumped a while back but it was too small of a pump for something with so much tech behind them. These guys are constantly developing.

actually bitcoin was never controlled by Chinese. they had a decent effect on the market and they still do but it was not "control". it was more of an FUD that they spread in the market to cause some panic or hype the price up for personal gains. it has always been like this.

and this has already been proven when PBoC closed down all their exchanges for over a month and the only result was a temporary small dip (like always) and then continued on its way upwards (again like always) and this theory of "Chinese controlling bitcoin" was put to rest forever.

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August 28, 2017, 11:02:38 AM
 #19

What's causing all those market-wide dips and gains, I can see it's happening every now and then.
When you look at the coinmarketcap right now you can see pretty much every coin from top100 is up by X%. What's causing situations like this?

Sometimes there are bigger events that causing this, but sometimes just two-three big sell/buy order in siimliar time. People think its rising because of that so they buying. Similiar with selling.
Invisible hand of market, you can't predict it but you can try and guess.

Even yesterday there is lots of talk that bitcoin price will be increased due to increase of blocks in segwit but as expected no big change in price instead transaction fee increase in every wallet provider site. Simply don't know what politics happening behind these kind of moves.
better just keep an eye and never listen into any hype bitcoin will have its owned direction so better to follow the chart and assess
it by yourself and I notice that fee as well its really annoying even my local exchange have a big charge now.

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August 28, 2017, 03:32:29 PM
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to add to that, anything with Chinese behind them usually have a lot of cash flowing in. Remember how BTC was so much controlled by China alone at the start? GRS is another coin that has got attention from Chinese peeps, and I'm hoping some magic again although it did get pumped a while back but it was too small of a pump for something with so much tech behind them. These guys are constantly developing.

actually bitcoin was never controlled by Chinese. they had a decent effect on the market and they still do but it was not "control". it was more of an FUD that they spread in the market to cause some panic or hype the price up for personal gains. it has always been like this.

and this has already been proven when PBoC closed down all their exchanges for over a month and the only result was a temporary small dip (like always) and then continued on its way upwards (again like always) and this theory of "Chinese controlling bitcoin" was put to rest forever.

True that, but I did not mean it control to a huge degree, but quite a substantial affect. The time PBOC did close the exchanges was around the time China wasn't being looked already in the same light like before. But for a while they had quite an affect. Anyways, my point is when the Chinese are backing something, they tend to really push themselves hard, whether thats to do with the Olympics or Foxconn Cheesy I just hope they push my NEO Cheesy

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