If I had a large gambling website, who can I trust here?

[Dabs]

Hi,

The question is: if I had a large gambling website or system or something, who can I trust here? Let's get to a specific example, let's pretend that I have the biggest raffle or lottery here, with jackpots and prizes amounting to hundreds or even thousands of bitcoins.

But then, I get hit by a bus, or I got hit by a train. Which is kinda the same. Or I get sunk out at sea, crash my car, or gone insane. (and it felt so good I want to do it again.)

The problem I would be having, which, if I am dead, is not my problem anymore, would be to follow through at least with the final round or game that I was hosting.

In this specific example, I am not a group of people or a corporation. I would just be one single private individual. Obviously, I have the private keys for any bitcoin addresses related to my game.

Question: Who can I trust here that would at least send the winner his coins according to the rules of the game? and you get to keep the change. (Donations for my funeral are optional but appreciated.)

This person would get an email about my inactivity (dead man's switch) and access to the wallets in question, after about one or two months. Everything encrypted of course. Or the password to an encrypted file I send you containing the same information. I don't want the site or server or host itself to have a hot-wallet that can send coins automatically, especially when we are talking about hundreds or thousands of bitcoins. For backup, maybe there are two or even 3 people. They will have to decide amongst themselves who is actually going to take action. If there are more than 3, then the rest simply get an email that "maybe I'm dead" so they can at least mention this on the forum.

If I am just offline for a long vacation or stranded in some island and eventually make it back, I can just continue a new game later.

I would appreciate some detail about either yourself (if you are posting), or about your nominee, like past history, analysis and handling of other games, etc.

I can think of a few people already (there are several here and in the trading / auction / escrow etc).

I just don't want to be labelled a scammer even though I'm dead.

[Zaih]

Doog is more or less the face of the gambling section, just chuck him it. I have a feeling he might not want that burden as he's probably got other stuff.

Other than that no one rly pops to mind. I doubt people rly want to take on unnecessary projects unless it's profitable for them I'd assume.

[Dabs]

Doog is more or less the face of the gambling section, just chuck him it. I have a feeling he might not want that burden as he's probably got other stuff.

Other than that no one rly pops to mind. I doubt people rly want to take on unnecessary projects unless it's profitable for them I'd assume.

I just need to know they are trusted. They don't have to do anything unless I disappear. As long as I'm around, they don't do anything. It will be profitable for them, because they keep whatever house edge I'm supposed to get. In fact, since I will be giving them the private key, they can pretty much do anything.

[keatonatron]

You can trust me.

But of course people who tell you to trust them shouldn't be trusted!

Why does it need to be someone here and not someone you know personally, like a family member?  Is it because they would need technical knowledge to send the coins (is your website not set up for automatic payouts)?

[Dabs]

You can trust me.

But of course people who tell you to trust them shouldn't be trusted!

Why does it need to be someone here and not someone you know personally, like a family member?  Is it because they would need technical knowledge to send the coins (is your website not set up for automatic payouts)?

For one, I don't have a website right now. I'm running a game all by myself.
Second, no member of my family knows how to send bitcoins. I trust them. They just don't know how to do it.

For people who volunteer but I don't trust (no offense), when I disappear, you will be notified about that. You don't get access to the coins (unless you are the winner), but at least you can come here and say "hey, dabs switch said he died, or something."

Also, it's possible you can be trusted. Kindly state your history or a summary. (Like, say, you escrowed 10,000 bitcoins a couple months ago or helped in selling some ASIC company shares or whatever.)

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

+1 to dooglus.

If he's unwilling to take up on it, I would be happy to do it.

http://scammer-ianbakewell.com/prop4.html

http://coinlenders.com/

https://bitfunder.com/asset/btcinvest

[keatonatron]

I would be happy to be a witness to your death and let people know you aren't scamming--you're just dead 

I don't have enough public bitcoin history to prove trustworthiness, but I will volunteer to receive a notification and help ensure your final wishes get carried out by communicating with everyone here.

[Vantix]

In first period you spend some bitcoin but i think every good work will pay off 

[Dabs]

If dooglus does not object, the list so far is as follows:

1. dooglus
2. TradeFortress
3. keatonatron = obituary on bitcointalk.org forum. (hehe)

What I don't know is if there should be a hierarchy or if I can send to both at once. Then you decide among the two of you who does whatever. The result is either, the winner gets his prize, or everyone gets refunded (which is going to be difficult if there are a lot of small outputs, ie, ticket price is 0.01)

Remember, nothing happens if I'm alive and can do what I'm supposed to do.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

If dooglus does not object, the list so far is as follows:

1. dooglus
2. TradeFortress
3. keatonatron = obituary on bitcointalk.org forum. (hehe)

What I don't know is if there should be a hierarchy or if I can send to both at once. Then you decide among the two of you who does whatever. The result is either, the winner gets his prize, or everyone gets refunded (which is going to be difficult if there are a lot of small outputs, ie, ticket price is 0.01)

Remember, nothing happens if I'm alive and can do what I'm supposed to do.

Why not send the prize to the winner? The winner would be pissed if that did not happen.

[Dabs]

Why not send the prize to the winner? The winner would be pissed if that did not happen.

Because I'm supposed to be dead, that's why. I don't know the winner until I've gotten all the tickets and the game is over. So, just in case I'm dead, I'm entrusting the giving the prize to the winner to the two of you.

At least that's what the plan is. Plan B.

If I'm alive, of course, I will send the prize to the winner.

*edit* oh yeah, I only said the part about refunding, if, the winner is not determined at all (like, I forgot to send you the secret to determine the winner, and I'm dead.)

Note to self: include needed information in my dead man's switch.

[Zaih]

With all due respect, I believe you should get a decent user base for your lottery/gambling system before organizing stuff like this ^_^ Most of these end up phasing out over time due to lack of interest. Maybe work on finding a way to innovate the current systems in place for this type of gambling.

[Dabs]

Hi Zaih,

Thanks for the comment. No prize is too small that will frustrate a possible winner. Or at least people know what happened. I don't want to be infamous for running off with the prize. Besides, the switch is easy to set up.

When I start a new game, I include all the needed info in the "death" email... Just in case I don't log in for a month, then the winner still gets his prize. Even if it's just 1 BTC.

[dooglus]

Doog is more or less the face of the gambling section, just chuck him it. I have a feeling he might not want that burden as he's probably got other stuff.

+1 to dooglus.

Thanks guys.  I'm happy to get the dead-mans-switch email and handle the final payout for you.  You email address is my forum name at gmail (or click the GPG link in my sig).

The only history I have of handling large amounts of other people's coin is the World Bitcoin Exchange debacle.  See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65867 if you have a few hours to kill.  Basically an Australian exchange went down in suspicious circumstances and I found myself in possession of all the exchange's clients' Bitcoin balances (totalling 1768 BTC).  I've been doing my best to fairly refund the users ever since which is tricky when I have no contact details for most of them...

Other than that, I specialise in moaning about bugs and issues re. provable fairness in Bitcoin gambling sites.  

[bccasino]

You can check this site https://www.securesafe.com they have a function in case you pass away to send passwords or documents to a trustee

From their website:
Data and passwords can be securely and safely stored for your family.

    Save your documents and passwords in your SecureSafe and leave contact details for recipients of certain information should something happen to you. Then determine which files and passwords you want sent to certain people.
    The data inheritance feature is simple and easy to setup.

The basic service is totally free!

[Zaih]

You can check this site https://www.securesafe.com they have a function in case you pass away to send passwords or documents to a trustee

From their website:
Data and passwords can be securely and safely stored for your family.

    Save your documents and passwords in your SecureSafe and leave contact details for recipients of certain information should something happen to you. Then determine which files and passwords you want sent to certain people.
    The data inheritance feature is simple and easy to setup.

The basic service is totally free!

That's actually a really cool service. Thanks for pointing this out. Read into it a bit and it's very well done.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Make sure to PGP crypt the info.

[dooglus]

Make sure to PGP crypt the info.

I was just wondering "how can we trust the deadman's switch site not to steal the money before we die".

And that's the answer.  Encrypt it to the recipient's public key before uploading it.

[Mooshire]

Or you can make a M of N wallet. I believe armory is adding easy support for that soon.

[Dabs]

PGP / GPG is of course mandatory for these types of things. Ok, I'm going to be redoing the "rules" for my next game over the next couple of days, then launch a "round 2". I'll PM you guys for emails/public keys.

Incidentally, I just noticed the "Trust" thing, it's near our forum names on the left side, above the "Ignore". That's new huh.

[ironcross360]

give tradefortress a trust 

[keatonatron]

Incidentally, I just noticed the "Trust" thing, it's near our forum names on the left side, above the "Ignore". That's new huh.

Hey, wow, just today I was thinking this forum should have a built in trust indicator like OTC...
I'd like to think I would have noticed it eventually, but thanks for pointing it out 

[MPOE-PR]

Hi,

The question is: if I had a large gambling website or system or something, who can I trust here? Let's get to a specific example, let's pretend that I have the biggest raffle or lottery here, with jackpots and prizes amounting to hundreds or even thousands of bitcoins.

Nanotube, if you can get him. He correctly handled a hotly contested 10k BTC bet (the old pirate thing). That's your prime rib.

[KingOfSports]

+1 Dooglus for sure.

[dooglus]

Nanotube, if you can get him. He correctly handled a hotly contested 10k BTC bet (the old pirate thing). That's your prime rib.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=202063.msg2220162#msg2220162

I think that's the game we're talking about here...

[Dabs]

For game secrets and winner determination stuff:
1. dooglus
2. TradeFortress

For obits or whatever:
3. keatonatron

Anyone else? I don't want to bother nanotube (unless he posts here), and the above two people should be enough. I thought of asking JohnK, but won't include him if he doesn't post in this thread. He's busy with his escrows.

I have dooglus email and GPG key. I will PM Mr. TradeFortress for his email and GPG key. To be an obit volunteer, you need to give me an email address only. I will just compose a signed message, but it won't be encrypted. I will use the GPG key in my sig.

You won't get anything unless I disappear.

[dooglus]

If dooglus does not object, the list so far is as follows:

1. dooglus
2. TradeFortress
3. keatonatron = obituary on bitcointalk.org forum. (hehe)

What I don't know is if there should be a hierarchy or if I can send to both at once. Then you decide among the two of you who does whatever. The result is either, the winner gets his prize, or everyone gets refunded (which is going to be difficult if there are a lot of small outputs, ie, ticket price is 0.01)

I think it's simpler if you arrange to have the details sent to one of us first, and then the other a week later, in case the first one was hit by the same bus that hit you.

If you send to both of us at once, one of us can steal the money and claim the other stole it.  Not that I think that would happen, but why add extra possibilities for problems occurring.

[Dabs]

I think it's simpler if you arrange to have the details sent to one of us first, and then the other a week later, in case the first one was hit by the same bus that hit you.

If you send to both of us at once, one of us can steal the money and claim the other stole it.  Not that I think that would happen, but why add extra possibilities for problems occurring.

Noted. It might add a bit more complexity. I was planning on just using Google's Inactive Account Manager (comes with your gmail account, check it out.)

Besides, I'm dead (or in a coma or something.)

It can be done though. Involves me creating more google accounts, and setting them up, but the next one gets their email from me 3 months later.... 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18 months are the choices.

From my understanding, you'll get emails 3 months after my last log in. In 1 month, I, as the owner, gets a SMS message on my phone. For the next person, he'll get it 6 months later. Or 3 months after the first person.

The obit people will get their notices at the same time as the first one.

It will come out like this:

1. dooglus = gets email in 3 months with game info.
2. TradeFortress = gets similar email in 6 months with the same game info.
3. keatonatron = gets email in 3 months with death notice, to announce in forum.

Person 1, would have to take action before Person 2 gets their email, or you have the same problem: you'll have each other claiming the other stole or whatever. 3 months should be more than enough time. Person 3 is just a witness, so everyone else knows that Person 1 has to do something.

For purposes of my game, I will have to set this up before I announce the next round.

[dooglus]

Noted. It might add a bit more complexity. I was planning on just using Google's Inactive Account Manager (comes with your gmail account, check it out.)

Maybe http://www.deadmansswitch.net/ is more flexible?

[Dabs]

Maybe http://www.deadmansswitch.net/ is more flexible?

I actually had that in mind before Google announced their version. And there are a few more websites out there that do the same thing. I just think Google will stick around longer. I will use the free version of DMS first. After a few games (when my percentage of the prize funds can afford it) I'll go get a paid DMS (they accept bitcoin, yeah. hehe.)

I think I'll use both Google and DMS. People will just get two of the same email in case of my untimely demise.

[ranlo]

Couple things here:

1) I think you're awesome for taking the responsibility of ensuring there's a backup in case something happens to you!

2) Never heard of DMS before now. I've thought a lot about how to share things that I otherwise want private, when I pass (ex. hiding a paper/cd and hoping it's found). DMS seems like the perfect solution!

On that note... don't forget your "living wills," guys. I still haven't been able to fill out mine because the choices are hard, but it's something I think about a lot. You never know when something might happen, regardless of your health and age.

Edit: just realized some of you may not know what a living will is. It's a document that tells what happens in certain situations (regarding whether or not to "resuscitate," leave you on machines as a vegetable or pull the plug, etc.).

[dooglus]

I just think Google will stick around longer.

Google stick around, but their services don't.  I'm currently having to find a new RSS reader, since Google Reader is about to be shut down.  Google Wave went the same way, and Google Health, was it?  That disappeared too.

[ranlo]

I just think Google will stick around longer.

Google stick around, but their services don't.  I'm currently having to find a new RSS reader, since Google Reader is about to be shut down.  Google Wave went the same way, and Google Health, was it?  That disappeared too.

Google Wave was either for a very niche audience or wasn't planned properly. I had a beta invite for it and didn't even spend more than a couple minutes due to not really understanding what it was supposed to be or how it worked.

Surprised Reader is being shut down though... doesn't Chrome have one built in though?

[Dabs]

I'm quite sure this particular issue on Google's Inactive Accounts is going to stick around for a long time. I can't be 100% sure, but maybe they've had enough people within their own ranks who would like this feature.

I don't think gmail is going away soon. And when they do, I'm quite sure there will be an announcement longer than 3 months. Which, if I'm gone, then my game still has you (dooglus/TradeFortress) to send the prize. And Mr. keatonatron to tell everyone that he got an email.

I've done the same thing for my company since I'm a system administrator and hold all the passwords for all the bank accounts and the payroll system. If I should go without a backup, people won't get their salaries. (Or not on time anyway.)

[dooglus]

Google Wave was either for a very niche audience or wasn't planned properly. I had a beta invite for it and didn't even spend more than a couple minutes due to not really understanding what it was supposed to be or how it worked.

It was something between an instant messaging app and a collaborative document editor.  It kind of did what google docs does now in a way.

Surprised Reader is being shut down though... doesn't Chrome have one built in though?

I don't think so, no.

See http://googlereader.blogspot.ca/2013/03/powering-down-google-reader.html by the way for the announcement.

[Dabs]

See http://googlereader.blogspot.ca/2013/03/powering-down-google-reader.html by the way for the announcement.

To ensure a smooth transition, we’re providing a three-month sunset period so you have sufficient time to find an alternative feed-reading solution. If you want to retain your Reader data, including subscriptions, you can do so through Google Takeout.

My guess, they will provide a 3 month sunset period for all the dead people with inactive accounts, and anyone with any settings longer than 3 months will get the notice immediately.

[ranlo]

See http://googlereader.blogspot.ca/2013/03/powering-down-google-reader.html by the way for the announcement.

To ensure a smooth transition, we’re providing a three-month sunset period so you have sufficient time to find an alternative feed-reading solution. If you want to retain your Reader data, including subscriptions, you can do so through Google Takeout.

My guess, they will provide a 3 month sunset period for all the dead people with inactive accounts, and anyone with any settings longer than 3 months will get the notice immediately.

I have to admit, that comment made my day. I lol'd.

+1 intarneckz for you, sir.

[MPOE-PR]

+1 Dooglus for sure.

That also works, yes. He responsibly handled the wind down of WBX after the owner disappeared.

[keatonatron]

Guys, big news!

I was just informed by the automated system that Dabs is not dead, just sleeping 

[Dabs]

Ok. That was a test message, where I had to wait 1 day for notification (which I ignored on purpose) and 2 days for it to send the email to you.

The real message has been updated. It should send to you in 60 days from my last log in. hehehe.... At the same time, dooglus will also get the details of the game. Then TradeFortress will get the same details in 90 days from Google. (Everyone else will also get a duplicate message of the first message they receive.)

The free DMS allows only 2 messages, and the default time out period is 60 days.
Google Inactive allows up to 10 messages but the shortest time out period is 3 months.

All messages are signed and encrypted appropriately.

Yes, I know it's a bit long, but I'm working with the unpaid version for now.

Once the game picks up players and the operator share (me) earns enough bitcoins, I will pay for the dead man's switch, and hopefully I can set it to 2 weeks, so people aren't waiting too long.

[keatonatron]

Understood.

Settling in for the long wait... 

[dooglus]

Ok. That was a test message, where I had to wait 1 day for notification (which I ignored on purpose) and 2 days for it to send the email to you.

Was I meant to get a test message too?  I didn't.  If so, I'll check my spam folders.

[luv2drnkbr]

Micon

[Dabs]

Ok. That was a test message, where I had to wait 1 day for notification (which I ignored on purpose) and 2 days for it to send the email to you.

Was I meant to get a test message too?  I didn't.  If so, I'll check my spam folders.

Hi dooglus,

Sorry, no, I only had 2 messages available. So I made the first one the real one meant for you. Then I made a test message sent to keatonatron. When he confirmed he got it, then it was deleted, then I made the real message for him.

Both will be sent out in 60 days from the time I disappear.

Yours is GPG encrypted with your public key, signed by me with my private key. Keatonatron's is just signed, but not encrypted, so he can paste the whole thing in a forum post and everyone else can confirm that I signed it.

On Google Inactive, I made 3 messages for dooglus, TradeFortress and keatonatron, which are duplicates of what deadmansswitch will have sent. Google will send it in 90 days.

So dooglus should get the game secrets in 60 days, TradeFortress will also get it in 90 days, while keatonatron can tell everyone what happened.

Lotto Number 2 will be over in a few days, so I will reset the switch and emails for Lotto Number 3. I'm only going to implement a couple of rule changes, it seems no one likes the current ones.

Does anyone have a paid deadmansswitch.net account and can you confirm if you can set it to 1 or 2 weeks?

[dooglus]

Yours is GPG encrypted with your public key, signed by me with my private key.

I just imported your private key 32AD7565.