The Holy Grail! I wish I could kiss the author of Bitmessage on his face.

[cypherdoc]

best of luck on this.

i have some studying to do.

[1714901743]

1714901743

[Frozenlock]

best of luck on this.

i have some studying to do.

Ditto.

[rikur]

While I love the idea of BitMessage, it has never worked when I've tried it. Me or my counter-parties never received the messages we sent.

If/when it starts to work as it it's supposed, it has the potential to become an important tool alongside Bitcoin for decentralized and pseudonymized transactions.

[ixne]

Quick, someone snap a picture of Jonathan Warren before he disappears forever...

[BlueNote]

Fellowtraveler, this is very exciting. I've been reading your OT stuff for a while and trying to absorb it all. Are you or your new company going to take OT now and develop it into this P2P exchange application? I think you should because it doesn't look like anyone else is ready to produce a product like this. I'm sure you could garner some serious donations if necessary since you've already proven yourself by putting OT together.

There will be tons of opportunities for everyone once this kind infrastructure is in place, so I hope we can all work together on it and keep it open.

[oakpacific]

What sucks is, surprise, the completely anachronistic banking system. Had banks digitally signed transactions like SEPA transfers, the dispute resolution could have been much easier.

[stretchwynand]

Combining the above Bitmessage capabilities--which we already proved out experimentally--with Open-Transactions, makes possible fully-decentralized p2p markets, as well as p2p escrow across OT federated servers, easy p2p and server-to-server wiring of funds and conversion of currencies, both within OT and also between OT and the conventional banking system.

How does this enable wiring of funds and conversion of currencies between OT and the conventional banking system?

[samurai1200]

So bitmessage is essentially snapchat (i think, i dont use it) plus encryption. My cryptosense isn't particularly adept, but the bit about 'passive operating mode' seems too much like "security through obscurity" rather than security through mathematics (sending parts of message/acks through other paths to obscure a communication channel). Not that this matters much on the replacement-of-email level, but on a currency exchange level it makes all the difference in the world.

Currently accepting any explanations that will help me ->

[cypherdoc]

Combining the above Bitmessage capabilities--which we already proved out experimentally--with Open-Transactions, makes possible fully-decentralized p2p markets, as well as p2p escrow across OT federated servers, easy p2p and server-to-server wiring of funds and conversion of currencies, both within OT and also between OT and the conventional banking system.

How does this enable wiring of funds and conversion of currencies between OT and the conventional banking system?

i am wondering about this too.

perhaps fellowtraveler could take us thru an example of how to convert BTC to USD and the exact steps involved.

[savantguy]

Combining the above Bitmessage capabilities--which we already proved out experimentally--with Open-Transactions, makes possible fully-decentralized p2p markets, as well as p2p escrow across OT federated servers, easy p2p and server-to-server wiring of funds and conversion of currencies, both within OT and also between OT and the conventional banking system.

How does this enable wiring of funds and conversion of currencies between OT and the conventional banking system?

i am wondering about this too.

perhaps fellowtraveler could take us thru an example of how to convert BTC to USD and the exact steps involved.

Yeah I would like a process walkthrough to understand this better.

[BTC Books]

Combining the above Bitmessage capabilities--which we already proved out experimentally--with Open-Transactions, makes possible fully-decentralized p2p markets, as well as p2p escrow across OT federated servers, easy p2p and server-to-server wiring of funds and conversion of currencies, both within OT and also between OT and the conventional banking system.

How does this enable wiring of funds and conversion of currencies between OT and the conventional banking system?

i am wondering about this too.

perhaps fellowtraveler could take us thru an example of how to convert BTC to USD and the exact steps involved.

I suspect this relates to a discussion waxwing and I were having on another thread, cypherdoc.

Integrating knowledge of SEPA and ACH into the software doesn't appear to be that difficult.  Software-driven settlement on the network through ACH/SEPA becomes feasible.  (And yeah - you'd want any account that was OT-enabled to be completely isolated from your normal banking structure, obviously)

The big problem hasn't been settlement within a single currency - it's been settlement across different currencies - that is, cutting out the currency exchange vigorish and regulatory structure.  And this looks like a solution.

But, like you, I have some studying to do.  I'm optimistic though.

[Miner_Willy]

Combining the above Bitmessage capabilities--which we already proved out experimentally--with Open-Transactions, makes possible fully-decentralized p2p markets, as well as p2p escrow across OT federated servers, easy p2p and server-to-server wiring of funds and conversion of currencies, both within OT and also between OT and the conventional banking system.

How does this enable wiring of funds and conversion of currencies between OT and the conventional banking system?

i am wondering about this too.

perhaps fellowtraveler could take us thru an example of how to convert BTC to USD and the exact steps involved.

Yeah I would like a process walkthrough to understand this better.

Process as per http://pastebin.com/SsLrxVP6. If I'm reading it right, Jorg has USD he's offering to put in Alice's nominated account (which might be her own or might be someone elses) and is willing to accept her BTC in exchange - the bitmessage is involved in the discovery process by which Alice and Jorg can meet in a distributed market. Alice sends BTC, Jorg wires USD to the other account.

If Alice wanted to send as Shekels, or Pesos, the discovery process finds someone who has those and wants to sell them, and presumably is located within that jurisdiction. Indeed if Alice has Russian Roubles and wants to pay a bill in South African Rand and doesn't have BTC at all then she could still do in two goes: discover someone who wants BTC in return for Rand: they provide a BTC address, she provides the South African bank details. Then she finds someone who offers BTC in return for Roubles -- she provides the BTC address from the first guy, he provides his bank account details. She pays in at the cashiers desk, he sends the BTC, the South African receives them and pays the bill denominated in Rand. (Obviously matters of escrow also, dealt with in the pastebin linked above.)

Arbitrary person-to- arbitrary person fiat A to fiat B transfer, no international aspect, "below the radar" in both source and destination country.
If I'm reading it right, that is

[oakpacific]

Combining the above Bitmessage capabilities--which we already proved out experimentally--with Open-Transactions, makes possible fully-decentralized p2p markets, as well as p2p escrow across OT federated servers, easy p2p and server-to-server wiring of funds and conversion of currencies, both within OT and also between OT and the conventional banking system.

How does this enable wiring of funds and conversion of currencies between OT and the conventional banking system?

i am wondering about this too.

perhaps fellowtraveler could take us thru an example of how to convert BTC to USD and the exact steps involved.

Yeah I would like a process walkthrough to understand this better.

Process as per http://pastebin.com/SsLrxVP6. If I'm reading it right, Jorg has USD he's offering to put in Alice's nominated account (which might be her own or might be someone elses) and is willing to accept her BTC in exchange - the bitmessage is involved in the discovery process by which Alice and Jorg can meet in a distributed market. Alice sends BTC, Jorg wires USD to the other account.

If Alice wanted to send as Shekels, or Pesos, the discovery process finds someone who has those and wants to sell them, and presumably is located within that jurisdiction. Indeed if Alice has Russian Roubles and wants to pay a bill in South African Rand and doesn't have BTC at all then she could still do in two goes: discover someone who wants BTC in return for Rand: they provide a BTC address, she provides the South African bank details. Then she finds someone who offers BTC in return for Roubles -- she provides the BTC address from the first guy, he provides his bank account details. She pays in at the cashiers desk, he sends the BTC, the South African receives them and pays the bill denominated in Rand. (Obviously matters of escrow also, dealt with in the pastebin linked above.)

Arbitrary person-to- arbitrary person fiat A to fiat B transfer, no international aspect, "below the radar" in both source and destination country.
If I'm reading it right, that is

That's why I said the banking system is archaic by not providing cryptographically signed transaction receipt, to facilitate the whole process.

[Miner_Willy]

That's why I said the banking system is archaic by not providing cryptographically signed transaction receipt, to facilitate the whole process.

"Anachronistic" might be even more accurate: they could have done it if it suited their purposes to do so, but instead time has passed them by.

[oakpacific]

That's why I said the banking system is archaic by not providing cryptographically signed transaction receipt, to facilitate the whole process.

"Anachronistic" might be even more accurate: they could have done it if it suited their purposes to do so, but instead time has passed them by.

That's the word I used initially.

[Razick]

Last night, randy-waterhouse and I were experimenting with Bitmessage. (*smooch*!!)

Bitmessage is a p2p messaging (and broadcast / subscription) protocol, based on the Bitcoin protocol.

It uses its own blockchain, but the chain only stores the last 2 or 3 days worth of messages. (It's assumed they were delivered within that time, where they are then safely stored on the recipient's inbox.)

Combining the above Bitmessage capabilities--which we already proved out experimentally--with Open-Transactions, makes possible fully-decentralized p2p markets, as well as p2p escrow across OT federated servers, easy p2p and server-to-server wiring of funds and conversion of currencies, both within OT and also between OT and the conventional banking system.

Furthermore, this is possible with little-to-no changes inside OT itself, and will not require the issuing of credit, nor will it require any pre-mined currency.

How does it work?

-----------------------------------------------------------

A few concepts...

--- First, keep in mind the concept that Bitcoins and Colored Coins (either/both) could be issued onto an OT server, without having to trust the server itself, through the use the multi-sig "voting pools" on the blockchain itself. I've already extensively discussed this on this board, and here's an article on how it's done:  http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/834/309

--- Second, keep in mind that using Colored Coins instead of Bitcoins is advantageous in certain circumstances, as it allows users to buy/sell those colored coins (for the purposes of transmitting other currencies) without incurring any capital gains tax liability. (I'm not a lawyer and that's not legal advice. The basic gist is, if you buy a colored coin for $100, and sell it for $100, there is obviously no gain or loss.)

-----------------------------------------------------------

T H E   H O L Y   G R A I L

Enter Bitmessage! (Which solves discovery across federated OT servers.)

As I said, randy-waterhouse and I already TESTED Bitmessage last night to prove experimentally that this is possible (and it worked.)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Using Bitmessage with OT to effect server-to-server wiring of funds: http://pastebin.com/NjQgDarx

--- The wiring protocol is all about Alice trying to discover Bob so she can move her money from one server to another (and Bob trying to discover Alice so he can make a profit by moving money from one server to another.)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Using Bitmessage with OT to effect escrow-based conversion of currencies across OT federated servers:  http://pastebin.com/S1W5guAQ

--- The currency conversion protocol is about Alice and Bob being able to choose a server they can agree to meet on so they can trade one currency for another inside OT. (For cases where they aren't already trading on the same OT server.)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Using Bitmessage with OT and SEPA so that Alice can p2p send any currency which Bob receives as Euros in his Euro account: http://pastebin.com/SsLrxVP6

--- The SEPA transfer protocol is about Alice being able to send Silver Grams, which Bob receives as Euros in his Euro bank account. It's also about Jorg earning a profit in silver grams, by sending a SEPA transfer to Bob on Alice's behalf.

-----------------------------------------------------------

We already knew that OT offered quite a few benefits to Bitcoin: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/2710/309

But now, combined with Bitmessage, Open-Transactions becomes a juggernaut!

The above protocols can be implemented inside OT wallet GUIs, such that they are automated and transparent to users.

May a million currencies bloom!

I have been looking for something like this! Awesome!

[Terpie]

Sounds like a far superior alternative to Ripple. One that the community can get behind.

[Elwar]

Whoa...

so, in theory, you can have a zero balance bank account and whenever you go to buy something you load your debit card with just enough to pay the bill by paying with Bitcoins...correct?

And someone can just write up a program to quickly exchange dollars for bitcoins just for that purpose...

Bitcoin debit card...


Or is there still a delay?

[Frozenlock]

Sounds like a far superior alternative to Ripple. One that the community can get behind.

What's the important difference with Ripple?
It still seems to be IOUs.

[Ares]

Sounds like a far superior alternative to Ripple. One that the community can get behind.

What's the important difference with Ripple?
It still seems to be IOUs.

No sketchy pre-mined 100 billion XRP non-currency (currency)?