I was offered $550 to say that "Ripple is a Scam."

[wormbog]

Ripple may not intend to be a scam, but they way they act sure makes it look that way. Promising to deal with key elements of their system at some unspecified later time (open sourcing the codebase, explaining their fair distribution system for XRP) is suspicious. And the trust system at the heart of Ripple is ridiculous. Ripple says the current system of banks and credit requires the same kind of trust, but I don't trust banks at all. I trust that I will have legal recourse through the court system if a bank decides to not pay back my deposits. I don't want to have to trust everyone I transact with, and with bitcoin I don't have to.

Couldn't agree with your points more. It seems these points would be obvious enough to anyone who thinks this way to simply not use Ripple until they resolve these issues. What the manipulation attempts then? Is it just a product of a group of angst-ridden teenagers who got rich from bitcoin?

Either TradeFortress stands to make some financial gain from the failure of Ripple, or he has some personal vendetta, or he believes he's contributing to the greater good by preventing less-informed people from being scammed out of their money.

My guess: he has a fat wallet full of btc and he fears the success of Ripple will lead to the devaluation of bitcoin.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I feel left out in that I'm not able to muster any enthusiasm for an extreme opinion on Ripple one way or the other. I don't think it's a scam, and I also don't think it's going to be useful outside a narrow problem space. I don't have anything personal against the OpenCoin developers and I think their business model is unlikely to succeed.

Be careful! You're being rational and that's dangerous around here with all the cultists.

My guess: he has a fat wallet full of btc and he fears the success of Ripple will lead to the devaluation of bitcoin.

It's funny you say that, because when I see a cultist leader in bitcoin preaching about how it will crush Japan like Godzilla, fly faster than a speeding bullet and be able to destroy governments, I wonder if they're just saying what hopeful idiots want to hear while they laugh at how much money they're making as cult leaders.

(I mean, come on, isn't it odd how we have a meme called "Bitcoiners not affected" and yet we still use centralized exchanges that can bring bitcoin to a halt for a day, disturbing business and livelihood of people from a simple DDoS?)

[romerun]

I can say Bitcoin is scam too for 10000 ripples.

[CanadianGuy]

Normally I would feel some resentment towards someone who works so hard to bash a competitor, but come on, this is bitcointalk.org
I think it's more of a disgrace that Ripple is using a BITCOIN forum to advertise themselves.
If we were on a microsoft forum full of people who have a vested interest in microsoft products, do you think spam about the benefits of Apple would go over good?
I think it's a matter of maintaining positive image for bitcoin and anyone has the freedom to do so IMO, whether there is money involved or not    This is a bitcoin forum full of people with a large interest in the bitcoin

[Matthew N. Wright]

Normally I would feel some resentment towards someone who works so hard to bash a competitor, but come on, this is bitcointalk.org
I think it's more of a disgrace that Ripple is using a BITCOIN forum to advertise themselves.
If we were on a microsoft forum full of people who have a vested interest in microsoft products, do you think spam about the benefits of Apple would go over good?
I think it's a matter of maintaining positive image for bitcoin and anyone has the freedom to do so IMO, whether there is money involved or not    This is a bitcoin forum full of people with a large interest in the bitcoin

Another month old account with a passionate opinion. Okay, so you think this forum should only be able to communicate about bitcoin? Then why do we let alt currencies, namecoin, bitcoin  exchanges, open transactions, colored coins, etc be discussed?

[pekv2]

Aww, I've been saying Ripple is a scam for free this whole time.

You've been saying Ripple is a scam for the whole 3 weeks duration of your completely anonymous account?

For free. That is the important part. I could have been making money this whole time. What a disappointment.

I advertise it for free, as it makes sense that it is a regulated closed source scam owned by an/a inc./co..

[Matthew N. Wright]

Aww, I've been saying Ripple is a scam for free this whole time.

You've been saying Ripple is a scam for the whole 3 weeks duration of your completely anonymous account?

For free. That is the important part. I could have been making money this whole time. What a disappointment.

I advertise it for free, as it makes sense that it is a regulated closed source scam owned by an/a inc./co..

I know we went through this back in 2010 in depth and no one learned anything from the experience (apparently), but do people here even know what the word "scam" means?

[CanadianGuy]

Normally I would feel some resentment towards someone who works so hard to bash a competitor, but come on, this is bitcointalk.org
I think it's more of a disgrace that Ripple is using a BITCOIN forum to advertise themselves.
If we were on a microsoft forum full of people who have a vested interest in microsoft products, do you think spam about the benefits of Apple would go over good?
I think it's a matter of maintaining positive image for bitcoin and anyone has the freedom to do so IMO, whether there is money involved or not    This is a bitcoin forum full of people with a large interest in the bitcoin

Another month old account with a passionate opinion. Okay, so you think this forum should only be able to communicate about bitcoin? Then why do we let alt currencies, namecoin, bitcoin  exchanges, open transactions, colored coins, etc be discussed?

I never said that, but I have noticed a significant amount of bashing of bitcoin from users such as misterbigg, so the war is justified.  It is totally fair that bitcoins can be used as ammunition.  Bring it on.    

[cypherdoc]

Ripple may not intend to be a scam, but they way they act sure makes it look that way. Promising to deal with key elements of their system at some unspecified later time (open sourcing the codebase, explaining their fair distribution system for XRP) is suspicious. And the trust system at the heart of Ripple is ridiculous. Ripple says the current system of banks and credit requires the same kind of trust, but I don't trust banks at all. I trust that I will have legal recourse through the court system if a bank decides to not pay back my deposits. I don't want to have to trust everyone I transact with, and with bitcoin I don't have to.

Couldn't agree with your points more. It seems these points would be obvious enough to anyone who thinks this way to simply not use Ripple until they resolve these issues. What the manipulation attempts then? Is it just a product of a group of angst-ridden teenagers who got rich from bitcoin?

actually we know that it's a product of Jed who sold mtgox right at the wrong time just before it took off to make millions.  i "speculate" that he probably also didn't get rich on the Bitcoin ramp as well.  i don't know about Joel or Stefan.

[cypherdoc]

Normally I would feel some resentment towards someone who works so hard to bash a competitor, but come on, this is bitcointalk.org
I think it's more of a disgrace that Ripple is using a BITCOIN forum to advertise themselves.
If we were on a microsoft forum full of people who have a vested interest in microsoft products, do you think spam about the benefits of Apple would go over good?
I think it's a matter of maintaining positive image for bitcoin and anyone has the freedom to do so IMO, whether there is money involved or not    This is a bitcoin forum full of people with a large interest in the bitcoin

Another month old account with a passionate opinion. Okay, so you think this forum should only be able to communicate about bitcoin? Then why do we let alt currencies, namecoin, bitcoin  exchanges, open transactions, colored coins, etc be discussed?

I never said that, but I have noticed a significant amount of bashing of bitcoin from users such as misterbigg, so the war is justified.  It is totally fair that bitcoins can be used as ammunition.  Bring it on.    

don't forget mmeijeri.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I never said that, but I have noticed a significant amount of bashing of bitcoin from users such as misterbigg, so the war is justified.  It is totally fair that bitcoins can be used as ammunition.  Bring it on.    

All is fair in love and war (and apparently business), but that doesn't mean we can't call them like we see them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

The person or group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology, to encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services (or accept the ideas being marketed).

Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation

I've seen this specifically in this very thread:

Lying by omission: This is a very subtle form of lying by withholding a significant amount of the truth. This technique is also used in propaganda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

[pekv2]

Aww, I've been saying Ripple is a scam for free this whole time.

You've been saying Ripple is a scam for the whole 3 weeks duration of your completely anonymous account?

For free. That is the important part. I could have been making money this whole time. What a disappointment.

I advertise it for free, as it makes sense that it is a regulated closed source scam owned by an/a inc./co..

I know we went through this back in 2010 in depth and no one learned anything from the experience (apparently), but do people here even know what the word "scam" means?

Did I hit it on the head of the nail correctly?

A fraudulent business scheme

BFL fits in here too.

[QuestionAuthority]

I feel left out in that I'm not able to muster any enthusiasm for an extreme opinion on Ripple one way or the other. I don't think it's a scam, and I also don't think it's going to be useful outside a narrow problem space. I don't have anything personal against the OpenCoin developers and I think their business model is unlikely to succeed.

Be careful! You're being rational and that's dangerous around here with all the cultists.

My guess: he has a fat wallet full of btc and he fears the success of Ripple will lead to the devaluation of bitcoin.

It's funny you say that, because when I see a cultist leader in bitcoin preaching about how it will crush Japan like Godzilla, fly faster than a speeding bullet and be able to destroy governments, I wonder if they're just saying what hopeful idiots want to hear while they laugh at how much money they're making as cult leaders.

(I mean, come on, isn't it odd how we have a meme called "Bitcoiners not affected" and yet we still use centralized exchanges that can bring bitcoin to a halt for a day, disturbing business and livelihood of people from a simple DDoS?)

Matthew, you know that's the case. Bitcoin is driven by speculators and day traders. It is a money making game. That's the joke on the government. Real drug/terrorist money is huge and Bitcoin could never support even the most minor terrorist group. Yeah, I can really see two terrorists talking about a job in the Middle East and agreeing to settle up in Bitcoins. "What the fuck are Bitcoins! No bitch, you pay me in money or find someone else!"

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out this whole micro-economy is made up of college students worldwide practicing their day trading skills before they graduate and have to do it for real.

Please don't tell me you believe in the PorcFest "change the world" mentality. If any other monetary system is going to do that it won't happen in your lifetime. The reason Bitcoin is here is for trading and those businesses that sprung up because traders are "learning" with real money.

[Matthew N. Wright]

A fraudulent business scheme

BFL fits in here too.

That is correct. BFL could be considered a fraudulent business scheme (it would be harder to argue that once they actually ship, but since they haven't, they're defecto scammers). Bitcoin Magazine were defacto scammers for 6 months too, and we redeemed ourselves by actually shipping a product most people love and is now in Barnes & Nobles' across the USA.

Ripple would most definitely be a "fraud" if they were taking money and not doing something that they claimed they were going to do for a reasonable period of time. As I can tell, they haven't taken any money (but have instead created it and handed it out). They did take funding from Google, and I guess you could argue they "scammed google", but we don't know the terms of that funding or what they promised so those accusations would be flimsy. You could argue that they scammed users by creating something claiming it's open sourced and not releasing it, but that's not "scamming", that's "lying". But what happens when the source code is released? Will people still call it a scam? I believe yes, and that's the heart of this nonsense.

[wormbog]

Matthew, you know that's the case. Bitcoin is driven by speculators and day traders. It is a money making game. That's the joke on the government. Real drug/terrorist money is huge and Bitcoin could never support even the most minor terrorist group. Yeah, I can really see two terrorists talking about a job in the Middle East and agreeing to settle up in Bitcoins. "What the fuck are Bitcoins! No bitch, you pay me in money or find someone else!"

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out this whole micro-economy is made up of college students worldwide practicing their day trading skills before they graduate and have to do it for real.

Please don't tell me you believe in the PorcFest "change the world" mentality. If any other monetary system is going to do that it won't happen in your lifetime. The reason Bitcoin is here is for trading and those businesses that sprung up because traders are "learning" with real money.

You have become too cynical to see that bitcoin is the solution to the authoritarianism that made you cynical in the first place.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Matthew, you know that's the case. Bitcoin is driven by speculators and day traders. It is a money making game. That's the joke on the government. Real drug/terrorist money is huge and Bitcoin could never support even the most minor terrorist group. Yeah, I can really see two terrorists talking about a job in the Middle East and agreeing to settle up in Bitcoins. "What the fuck are Bitcoins! No bitch, you pay me in money or find someone else!"

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out this whole micro-economy is made up of college students worldwide practicing their day trading skills before they graduate and have to do it for real.

Please don't tell me you believe in the PorcFest "change the world" mentality. If any other monetary system is going to do that it won't happen in your lifetime. The reason Bitcoin is here is for trading and those businesses that sprung up because traders are "learning" with real money.

You have become too cynical to see that bitcoin is the solution to the authoritarianism that made you cynical in the first place.

Maybe someone's paying him to say that. 

[QuestionAuthority]

Matthew, you know that's the case. Bitcoin is driven by speculators and day traders. It is a money making game. That's the joke on the government. Real drug/terrorist money is huge and Bitcoin could never support even the most minor terrorist group. Yeah, I can really see two terrorists talking about a job in the Middle East and agreeing to settle up in Bitcoins. "What the fuck are Bitcoins! No bitch, you pay me in money or find someone else!"

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out this whole micro-economy is made up of college students worldwide practicing their day trading skills before they graduate and have to do it for real.

Please don't tell me you believe in the PorcFest "change the world" mentality. If any other monetary system is going to do that it won't happen in your lifetime. The reason Bitcoin is here is for trading and those businesses that sprung up because traders are "learning" with real money.

You have become too cynical to see that bitcoin is the solution to the authoritarianism that made you cynical in the first place.

The word is practical or you could use realistic.

[QuestionAuthority]

Matthew, you know that's the case. Bitcoin is driven by speculators and day traders. It is a money making game. That's the joke on the government. Real drug/terrorist money is huge and Bitcoin could never support even the most minor terrorist group. Yeah, I can really see two terrorists talking about a job in the Middle East and agreeing to settle up in Bitcoins. "What the fuck are Bitcoins! No bitch, you pay me in money or find someone else!"

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out this whole micro-economy is made up of college students worldwide practicing their day trading skills before they graduate and have to do it for real.

Please don't tell me you believe in the PorcFest "change the world" mentality. If any other monetary system is going to do that it won't happen in your lifetime. The reason Bitcoin is here is for trading and those businesses that sprung up because traders are "learning" with real money.

You have become too cynical to see that bitcoin is the solution to the authoritarianism that made you cynical in the first place.

Maybe someone's paying him to say that. 

That's right, I'm a speculation forum shill. LOL

[Matthew N. Wright]

Matthew, you know that's the case. Bitcoin is driven by speculators and day traders. It is a money making game. That's the joke on the government. Real drug/terrorist money is huge and Bitcoin could never support even the most minor terrorist group. Yeah, I can really see two terrorists talking about a job in the Middle East and agreeing to settle up in Bitcoins. "What the fuck are Bitcoins! No bitch, you pay me in money or find someone else!"

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out this whole micro-economy is made up of college students worldwide practicing their day trading skills before they graduate and have to do it for real.

Please don't tell me you believe in the PorcFest "change the world" mentality. If any other monetary system is going to do that it won't happen in your lifetime. The reason Bitcoin is here is for trading and those businesses that sprung up because traders are "learning" with real money.

You have become too cynical to see that bitcoin is the solution to the authoritarianism that made you cynical in the first place.

The word is practical or you could use realistic.

In all fairness, bitcoin is *a* solution (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292.0) but not every solution works for everyone, everywhere. Anyone saying otherwise is a blind cultist.

[wachtwoord]

Saying stuff for money sounds like a simple enough job to me. Anyone hiring?