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cheesylard (OP)
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May 22, 2013, 05:33:11 AM |
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I honestly can't understand how ripple is superior to Bitcoin and how it could potentially outpace it in the future. Could someone please explain this to me?
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Matthew N. Wright
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May 22, 2013, 05:40:03 AM |
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From what I can understand, bitcoin is more akin to a commodity and is insanely inefficient as a currency to use, obtain and maintain. What started out as a project with the intention to trade value freely has been affected by its own inherent deflationary nature and caused massive hoarding by the free market. The free market has deemed bitcoin to be more of a *highly traded* commodity than a currency.
Ripple (the old one) is an interesting concept. Open Transactions is also an interesting concept. Both of them revolve around the trading of funds (bitcoins, dollars, whatever) and are basically accounting systems. Neither one is a currency. That said, the *new* Ripple has a currency inside of it native to the application itself. This will make its developers rich. You should care about Ripple because it allows you and I to make a trade where I only have USD and you only have BTC, yet we are still able to trade abstract values. You should also care about OpenCoin's Ripple because it is a reminder of why things in an open source community should never be released closed-source (marketing suicide).
Try not to make any judgements on it at the moment though, as both Open Transactions and Ripple are infant projects in their current states and, just like Bitcoin, needs many more years of adoption, changes, and consensus before any fair assessment can be made.
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Matthew N. Wright
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May 22, 2013, 06:02:54 AM |
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Bitstamp is an exchange, not a coin. Its discussion doesn't belong on this forum. Avalon is a company that sells chips and mining rigs, not a coin. Its discussion doesn't belong on this forum.  |
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erk
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May 22, 2013, 06:04:56 AM |
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Bitstamp is an exchange, not a coin. Its discussion doesn't belong on this forum. Avalon is a company that sells chips and mining rigs, not a coin. Its discussion doesn't belong on this forum. You are full of crap both bitstamp and Avalon are related to bitcoin and other alts of bitcoin activity, Ripple is not. Go troll on BTC-e or something not here. |
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erk
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May 22, 2013, 06:43:00 AM |
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Bitstamp is an exchange, not a coin. Its discussion doesn't belong on this forum. Avalon is a company that sells chips and mining rigs, not a coin. Its discussion doesn't belong on this forum. You are full of crap both bitstamp and Avalon are related to bitcoin and other alts of bitcoin activity, Ripple is not. Go troll on BTC-e or something not here. Ripple accepts bitcoins and allows them to be exchange  Your points are invalid. You are a troll, welcome to my ignore list. |
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hdclover
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May 22, 2013, 06:51:30 AM |
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Bitstamp is an exchange, not a coin. Its discussion doesn't belong on this forum. Avalon is a company that sells chips and mining rigs, not a coin. Its discussion doesn't belong on this forum. You are full of crap both bitstamp and Avalon are related to bitcoin and other alts of bitcoin activity, Ripple is not. Go troll on BTC-e or something not here. Ripple accepts bitcoins and allows them to be exchange Your points are invalid. You are a troll, welcome to my ignore list. same with you |
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mullick
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May 22, 2013, 07:44:01 AM |
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Bitstamp is an exchange, not a coin. Its discussion doesn't belong on this forum. Avalon is a company that sells chips and mining rigs, not a coin. Its discussion doesn't belong on this forum. You are full of crap both bitstamp and Avalon are related to bitcoin and other alts of bitcoin activity, Ripple is not. Go troll on BTC-e or something not here. Ripple accepts bitcoins and allows them to be exchange Your points are invalid. You are a troll, welcome to my ignore list. same with you I am a troll cause I point out the obvious and make you look dumb LMAO also I am happy to be on your ignore list so you don't have read how dumb you are cause I pointed out the obvious it would probably be too hard for you to accept that your an idiot LOL Maybe your not a troll but you have no idea what you are talking about. You do not own that btc. You own debt  If you buy xrp with btc you have paid off someone else's debt. After sifting through all the lies about it being open sourced that is what I finally realized they were trying to prevent you from knowing. |
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mullick
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May 22, 2013, 08:11:11 AM |
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Maybe your not a troll but you have no idea what you are talking about. You do not own that btc. You own debt If you buy xrp with btc you have paid off someone else's debt. After sifting through all the lies about it being open sourced that is what I finally realized they were trying to prevent you from knowing. It actually works like this, you have debt or better known as IOU cause they plan on paying you. Also remember your the one that is creating trust between you and another person, it is your responsibility to vett them and make sure they are honest people. See this is the genius of Ripple, the funds are held at gateways, meaning that Ripple the company doesn't have the funds but you choose again who you trust to hold those funds on behalf of you. Then using IOUs you can make quick trades, then redeem them. So i don't see what the scam is here? It is just a different take and quite genius apporach to an exchange. This is why google ventures invested in them. They aren't some scam, their were no lies, maybe people not understanding and shouting. Also you can talk to them about being a gateway and get your hands on the rippled, so I don't know what they are trying to hide. It is a very small team so maybe they want to get another programmer in on the code before releasing it. Also XRP is not a currency so I don't get that argument, it has certain properties not even of a currency but just of crypto currencies. Seriously no lies? Their website claims they are open source. They are not. Lieing about your code being open sourced it a terrible thing to do. I would never trust anything thatclaims to be open source when it in fact is closed source and copyrighted. If ripple had nothing to hide they would make page about how it works. They do not becasue they want you to think its open source and not complete bullshit. I have never had a problem with ripple until tonight when I sign in to see people trying to promote it everywhere. Again if opencoin didnt have anything to hide they would come out with an easy to understand video/ paper to explain how it works and make it open source. Not lie about it being open source and leave it to the bagholders to explain to others what it is. Ripple will never be open source. They are a for profit company who are making money off all of its users |
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webr3
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May 22, 2013, 08:12:04 AM
Last edit: May 22, 2013, 10:37:53 AM by webr3 |
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I honestly can't understand how ripple is superior to Bitcoin and how it could potentially outpace it in the future. Could someone please explain this to me?
Ripple is effectively a decentralized clearing system which works with any currency. Ripple has been a project for many years. Ripple 2 as you may call it, is fairly new, and the currency XRP is distinct from Ripple. RippleD is the server, it manages the distributed public ledger, there are currently a handful of RippleD servers running. It is not generally available, but it is available on request. From people I've spoken to who have RippleD server source currently, they are confident that it does what it says on the tin, but the code could be a little better, and it would be wise to run it for a little longer to ensure it has no bugs which could cost people any $. Certainly in the past few months whilst I've used it, no such bugs or security vuln have been found, two ledger corruption bugs in last month or so have been found/. OpenCoin who make ripple, have a list of repos, and all client code and interfacing libraries are already open sourced and generally available. It's perhaps fair to think of the Ripple ledger as fulfilling the same role as the blockchain of bitcoin. Ripple compliments Bitcoin and other currencies, enable fluid transfer of them between users and gateways, or networks of, who trust each other. It is used in this capacity already, indeed that's all ripple 1 was, and it works very nicely. Ripple comes under attack quite a lot because it enables social lending without fees, because the server is not fully open sourced, and because it is operated by a company OpenCoin, who critically, also distribute the currency XRP. XRP is a currency which is a utility of the ripple network. Each transaction on the network, each entry in the ledger, cost 0.00001 XRP, this is a rate which is variable when servers agree to change it together. So the value of one XRP can be seen roughly as the cost of 10k-100k entries on the ripple ledger. All 0.00001 fees are destroyed, thus reducing the number of XRP available over time, and increasing it's value. As XRP is a currency, it's open to speculation. Speculation in the natural style, and based on calculating whether you think Ripple will be successful long term as a clearance system, and then thinking what the cost of 10-100k transaction may be in $ terms. |
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erk
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May 22, 2013, 08:13:47 AM |
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Maybe your not a troll but you have no idea what you are talking about. You do not own that btc. You own debt If you buy xrp with btc you have paid off someone else's debt. After sifting through all the lies about it being open sourced that is what I finally realized they were trying to prevent you from knowing. If you read the link I posted earlier, OpenCoin employees are on Bitcoin forums, chat, conferences, trying to suck people in to being ripple customers. |
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mullick
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May 22, 2013, 08:18:13 AM |
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Maybe your not a troll but you have no idea what you are talking about. You do not own that btc. You own debt If you buy xrp with btc you have paid off someone else's debt. After sifting through all the lies about it being open sourced that is what I finally realized they were trying to prevent you from knowing. If you read the link I posted earlier, OpenCoin employees are on Bitcoin forums, chat, conferences, trying to suck people in to being ripple customers. i have read and seen all the ripple post popping up this is why its pissing me off. If ripple was liget they would not have to pay people to promote and lie about it. |
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webr3
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May 22, 2013, 08:28:29 AM |
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Maybe your not a troll but you have no idea what you are talking about. You do not own that btc. You own debt If you buy xrp with btc you have paid off someone else's debt. After sifting through all the lies about it being open sourced that is what I finally realized they were trying to prevent you from knowing. If you read the link I posted earlier, OpenCoin employees are on Bitcoin forums, chat, conferences, trying to suck people in to being ripple customers. i have read and seen all the ripple post popping up this is why its pissing me off. If ripple was liget they would not have to pay people to promote and lie about it. BTW RIPPLE IS NOT DECENTRALIZEDIndeed it is, spread you lies elsewhere, you can demonstrate this in the client in about 2 seconds by changing the server from s1 to s2, and noticing that all the gateways run there own rippled's. Regarding being paid, I have certainly never been paid anything in any currency from anybody with regards to ripple, indeed I've never even received an XRP giveaway! Conversely, TradeFortress is paying people to ruin ripple, he runs adverts on the forums, pays people to spread fud, and has openly stated many times he will destroy ripple even if it costs him millions of USD. I don't know if this is a personal attack due to disagreements with the founder of OpenCoin and creator of Ripple, or because fee-less social lending would be slightly detrimental to his coinlending business. But it's sad for sure, as it could facilitate his business easily. Ripple is a new promising technology and approach to things, as is OpenTransactions, whether you want the OpenCoin implementations, or whether you want to create your own version of it. It sets the bar high. There will be a whole host of uninformed or sponsored and ill mannered reactions to this reply, as with all others, so I'll only reply to the OP directly if you have any more questions. FWIW, I'm totally unaffiliated, hold multiple different currencies, and have had a keen interest in payment systems for many years now. I think ripple coule be better, but I'm glad to see what's there being used effectively. PaySwarm (Standardized) and OpenTransactions are two others to check out. |
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mullick
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May 22, 2013, 08:34:39 AM |
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Maybe your not a troll but you have no idea what you are talking about. You do not own that btc. You own debt If you buy xrp with btc you have paid off someone else's debt. After sifting through all the lies about it being open sourced that is what I finally realized they were trying to prevent you from knowing. It actually works like this, you have debt or better known as IOU cause they plan on paying you. Also remember your the one that is creating trust between you and another person, it is your responsibility to vett them and make sure they are honest people. See this is the genius of Ripple, the funds are held at gateways, meaning that Ripple the company doesn't have the funds but you choose again who you trust to hold those funds on behalf of you. Then using IOUs you can make quick trades, then redeem them. So i don't see what the scam is here? It is just a different take and quite genius apporach to an exchange. This is why google ventures invested in them. They aren't some scam, their were no lies, maybe people not understanding and shouting. Also you can talk to them about being a gateway and get your hands on the rippled, so I don't know what they are trying to hide. It is a very small team so maybe they want to get another programmer in on the code before releasing it. Also XRP is not a currency so I don't get that argument, it has certain properties not even of a currency but just of crypto currencies. Seriously no lies? Their website claims they are open source. They are not. Lieing about your code being open sourced it a terrible thing to do. I would never trust anything that claims to be open source when it in fact is closed source and copyrighted. If ripple had nothing to hide they would make page about how it works. They do not becasue they want you to think its open source and not complete bullshit. I have never had a problem with ripple until tonight when I sign in to see people trying to promote it everywhere. Again if opencoin didnt have anything to hide they would come out with an easy to understand video/ paper to explain how it works and make it open source. Not lie about it being open source and leave it to the bagholders to explain to others what it is. Ripple will never be open source. They are a for profit company who are making money off all of its users Their website says they will be releasing it as open source, so yes no lie. They only copyrighted the name Ripple which I don't see it as a bad thing, it is business. https://ripple.com/wiki/How_it_works here is a page that explains how it works. How do you know Ripple will never be open sourced? Do you have proof? Opencoin is a team of a hand few of people, they are going to make mistakes like saying this is going to be open sourced on X date. If you want to be a gateway you can easily contact them and they will give you the right software ( https://ripple.com/wiki/Rippled) so I don't know how they are hiding anything. They are pretty open for a company and they were invested in by google ventures so I am sure they are here to a make a profit. They never said they weren't going to be a non-profit company. It is just like Mt Gox they make a commission off their users, why can't opencoin do the same? Mt Gox and Ripple are the same thing, just two different approaches. Things like this make our community stronger and make competition for other companies that want to enter the space. Thus making better products. I changed my post. I read it as xrp is decentralized which it most diffidently is not. Sorry for that. My question is why xrp at all?!?!?!?! I would be behind ripple without xrp...maybe. Its like microsoft points. If you want to use their service you must transfer all of your money into our money for which we control every aspect of. Why would anyone ever do that?!?!?! Wrong their website says never says that been looking for 5 minutes. This is what they have to say "Ripple is an open platform that lets you build payments and commerce solutions for all currencies and virtual currencies, including Bitcoin. Our goal is to integrate virtual currencies into all payment platforms and make money transfers easy and free for the world – join the movement." Under the developers page..... What do they want people to develop?!?!?!?!?!? |
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webr3
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May 22, 2013, 08:39:52 AM |
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I changed my post. I read it as xrp is decentralized which it most diffidently is not. Sorry for that. My question is why xrp at all?!?!?!?!
XRP is a utility of the network, it prevents network spam, and applies a small cost to each entry in the ledger. 10 drops. Roughly 1 XRP has the value of, and is the fee for, 10k-100k entries in the ripple ledger (10k-100k transactions). All fees are destroyed, reducing the overall number of XRP over time, increasing it's value. If you think ripple will gain significant adoption as a clearing system, then you can figure out the value of 10-100k ledger entries yourself and place that as your value of 1 XRP long term. Under the developers page..... What do they want people to develop?!?!?!?!?!?
You just ask them for the source, show you actually want to develop ripple things / contribute not undermine, and you'll get it. You can also develop using the APIs, which is the approach I've personally taken. |
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gweedo
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May 22, 2013, 08:49:20 AM |
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How does it prevent spam? What is to say opencoin wont just print another billion xpr? Its closed source and not decentralized. Thanks for quoting the article I already read through. Do you even know what that means? lol enough said im out good luck with your ripple
Just like a bitcoin fee does. Opencoin can do that, but XRP are not currencies it just has the properties of a crypto-currency. So mt gox is closed sourced and not decentralized but people still use it. I think your still confused about Ripples and I wish you would stay and learn and maybe change your view. |
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Jaseph
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May 22, 2013, 09:08:27 AM |
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This is what ripple is in my opinion. It is a company (Open Coin), backed by venture capitalists and rich silicon valley types. They looked at bitcoin and asked,"What's the best way for us to profit from it?"
Their solution was to make an alternate system which they would control. They also decided to create 100 billion xrp, of which their company would hold 50 billion or half.
Ripple is nothing more than some rich people trying to hijack the crypto-currency movement for their own profit. It is completely antithetical to the whole idea behind cryptocurrencies, which is wrenching control of OUR money from central banks and banksters. Ripple just replaces central banks with Open Coin. The whole thing stinks and their system sucks. You wanna place yourself back under a centralized system under somebody else's control then use (c)ripple.
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Caesar V
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May 22, 2013, 09:11:24 AM |
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I honestly can't understand how ripple is superior to Bitcoin and how it could potentially outpace it in the future. Could someone please explain this to me?
Ripple is effectively a decentralized clearing system which works with any currency. Ripple has been a project for many years. Ripple 2 as you may call it, is fairly new, and the currency XRP is distinct from Ripple. RippleD is the server, it manages the distributed public ledger, there are currently a handful of RippleD servers running. It is not generally available, but it is available on request. From people I've spoken to who have RippleD server source currently, they are confident that it does what it says on the tin, but the code could be a little better, and it would be wise to run it for a little longer to ensure it has no bugs which could cost people any $. Certainly int he past few months whilst I've used it, no such bugs or security vuln have been found. OpenCoin who make ripple, have a list of repos, and all client code and interfacing libraries are already open sourced and generally available. It's perhaps fair to think of the Ripple ledger as fulfilling the same role as the blockchain of bitcoin. Ripple compliments Bitcoin and other currencies, enable fluid transfer of them between users and gateways, or networks of, who trust each other. It is used in this capacity already, indeed that's all ripple 1 was, and it works very nicely. Ripple comes under attack quite a lot because it enables social lending without fees, because the server is not fully open sourced, and because it is operated by a company OpenCoin, who critically, also distribute the currency XRP. XRP is a currency which is a utility of the ripple network. Each transaction on the network, each entry in the ledger, cost 0.00001 XRP, this is a rate which is variable when servers agree to change it together. So the value of one XRP can be seen roughly as the cost of 10k-100k entries on the ripple ledger. All 0.00001 fees are destroyed, thus reducing the number of XRP available over time, and increasing it's value. As XRP is a currency, it's open to speculation. Speculation in the natural style, and based on calculating whether you think Ripple will be successful long term as a clearance system, and then thinking what the cost of 10-100k transaction may be in $ terms.  You need to Google the meaning of decentralized and then provide us the source code for ripple.. |
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webr3
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May 22, 2013, 09:15:26 AM |
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This is what ripple is in my opinion. It is a company (Open Coin), backed by venture capitalists and rich silicon valley types. They looked at bitcoin and asked,"What's the best way for us to profit from it?"
Their solution was to make an alternate system which they would control. They also decided to create 100 billion xrp, of which their company would hold 50 billion or half.
Ripple is nothing more than some rich people trying to hijack the crypto-currency movement for their own profit. It is completely antithetical to the whole idea behind cryptocurrencies, which is wrenching control of OUR money from central banks and banksters. Ripple just replaces central banks with Open Coin. The whole thing stinks and their system sucks. You wanna place yourself back under a centralized system under somebody else's control then use (c)ripple.
That's a fair, but quite strong, opinion. Worth remembering that Jed who created ripple also created MtGox, that most people involved are bitcoiners, and that XRP the currency doesn't really matter, Ripple 1 (ripplepay.com) and Ripple 2 (ripple.com) can both be used without needing to pay, for the ripple 2, you can acquire a lifetimes supply of XRP for free easily, and use the ripple system to faciliate the fluidity of your currencies, and form your own trust networks. Regarding control, the second RippleD is released to the masses, it's already available on request and I know several people with server daemons running, all those arguments are invalid. Regarding centralization, it's decentralized and you can use any currency, even make up your own. You should do some reasearch and checkout ripplepay.com, and the ripple wiki, check the history and motives behind it's creation, before naively believing everything you read. |
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webr3
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May 22, 2013, 09:20:57 AM |
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OMFG I WANTED TO BE DONE SO BAD BUT YOU ARE IGNORING WHAT I SAY You have to buy xrp to do anything on ripple!
You can get it for free from the giveaway, just go to ripple.com or post in the thread on bitcointalk. It's more than a lifetimes supply of XRP. Hell I'll even give you some too, as I do anybody else who wants to test ripple. XRP is not needed its a way for the devs to get rich
It's needed in the same way bitcoin transfer fees are needed, it supports the network. It also supports the development of rippled in the initial stages, although they are getting VC funding, and yes some of them may get rich, who cares, should satoshi, tim berners-lee, or anybody else who's created something on a global scale not get rich too? After all the shit going around about ripple. If someone was actually able to get the source code it would be everywhere now. Unless they stick you with contracts which would mean ITS NOT OPEN SOURCE
anybody who has the source realises that by giving it out you may be risking people's money if it has a vulnerability or a critical bug left as yet unfound, I personally don't want to take that risk, and I'm pleased nobody else (thus far) does either. I'm a major opensource advocate, and unlicense + royalty free everything I do, but in this case, I understand why it is not yet available on mass. I will never say another thing about ripple. It just pisses me off too much
With ill informed discussions and a sponsored smear campaign, I'm unsurprised. |
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