old_engineer (OP)
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May 22, 2013, 09:21:32 AM |
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There's about 8k btc ($1M USD worth) on bitstamp priced below the current MtGox ask price of $122.89. Will people bother signing up with bitstamp and sending their fiat there, or will they keep using Gox because they're comfortable with it? An additional $1M at Gox would drive the price up to $126, a significant change in a slow week.
I think that if the Bitstamp wall gets eaten and bid orders placed with the resulting cash, whomever(s) put those underpriced BTC on Bitstamp will have hastened the end of the Gox era. Bitstamp is already at 25% of Gox volume the past day, and with just a few million USD in liquidity, they could become the dominant exchange. No one seems to like Gox, but bigger players have had no choice up until now.
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old_engineer (OP)
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May 22, 2013, 09:33:41 AM |
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... and two minutes after posting, 2k btc disappeared from the ask wall. Coincidence? ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUBzrl7k.png&t=665&c=bVs9Gw8EwfAGRA)
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ronaldlee0917
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May 22, 2013, 12:19:11 PM |
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I have been doing arbitrage between the two platforms, the main killer of making any profit is the bank wire fees and commission fees, also having money stored on MtGox is quite a risk now given the recent events and they are very slow in handling your withdrawals which adds another layer of uncertainty. The marginal profit is not worth the time imo especially if you don't want your money to be locked up in a week or two.
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blackreplica
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May 22, 2013, 01:56:55 PM |
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Agreed. I set up a bitstamp account just recently with a view to do some arbitrage.
Having done the sums though, it's a no go for me unless the price gap widens. Hefty fees and exchange rate spreads (my home currency is not the US dollar), combined with a ridiculous amount of time spent before the money comes back to your account thanks to slow wire transfers by Gox, just doesn't make arbitrage possible...at these prices.
Being american does help though, you can arbitrage narrower exchange BTC/USD spreads since you don't get hit with daylight robbery bank exchange rates (another 3% markup over market rates, in my case) to convert back to your home currency.
Still, unless we're talking large sums, or maybe BTC-E vs Gox, where the differences are larger....arbitrage is simply not possible at the current price differential for most people
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old_engineer (OP)
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May 22, 2013, 07:27:28 PM |
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Agreed. I set up a bitstamp account just recently with a view to do some arbitrage.
Having done the sums though, it's a no go for me unless the price gap widens. Hefty fees and exchange rate spreads (my home currency is not the US dollar), combined with a ridiculous amount of time spent before the money comes back to your account thanks to slow wire transfers by Gox, just doesn't make arbitrage possible...at these prices.
I'd been using Dwolla until last week, and I hadn't realized how slow wire transfers from Gox were. I thought 4 days, tops, but apparently it will take a lot longer than that. Being american does help though, you can arbitrage narrower exchange BTC/USD spreads since you don't get hit with daylight robbery bank exchange rates (another 3% markup over market rates, in my case) to convert back to your home currency.
Good point - I'm American, so forgive me if I forget about the rest of the world. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) I also have a 0.29% trading rate at Gox, and after buying a few hundred coins should have a 0.2% rate at Bitstamp, so the math works for me: $118*1.0059 = $118.70, a $3.5/bitcoin profit. The wires are flat fees, a small % with five figure sums. The only question is if the spread will persist until my Gox wire appears. If it doesn't, I thankfully won't lose anything, I just won't gain.
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ardana123
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May 22, 2013, 08:11:33 PM |
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Profit margins are too small for the risk For example if u move 5k u only have an 18$ profit after all the fees and commissions. Is that really worth the risk of losing a lot more in the event of a sudden price drop? Because who knows what might happen when your bitcoins take an hour to transfer to Gox.
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mgio
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May 23, 2013, 03:07:21 AM |
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I'm been doing arbitrage and making about $200-$250 a day after all fees when there is a 5% difference between exchanges (which is common these days).
I won't give away my secrets though. See if you can figure out how.
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keatonatron
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Jack of oh so many trades.
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May 23, 2013, 03:20:18 AM |
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I won't give away my secrets though. See if you can figure out how.
Sure. Invest $50,000 in bitcoins ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) Even if you only get a 3% return and a portion of your coins are constantly tied up in transfers, you'll still make $250/day.
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1KEATSvAhbB7yj2baLB5xkyJSnkfqPGAqk
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Arcas
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May 23, 2013, 03:24:04 AM |
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I'm been doing arbitrage and making about $200-$250 a day after all fees when there is a 5% difference between exchanges (which is common these days).
I won't give away my secrets though. See if you can figure out how.
OKpay?
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mgio
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May 23, 2013, 04:22:21 AM |
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I won't give away my secrets though. See if you can figure out how.
Sure. Invest $50,000 in bitcoins ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) Even if you only get a 3% return and a portion of your coins are constantly tied up in transfers, you'll still make $250/day. Well not quite that much money. But if you have a lot of bitcoins just sitting around like many of us who bought pre-2013 have, why not use them to make money? If you spent just $5,000 on bitcoins last fall, you probably have about 500 bitcoins right now. That's 60k right there to play around with.
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mgio
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May 23, 2013, 04:23:59 AM |
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I'm been doing arbitrage and making about $200-$250 a day after all fees when there is a 5% difference between exchanges (which is common these days).
I won't give away my secrets though. See if you can figure out how.
OKpay? Actually a couple of ways to do and pick whatever is the best for that day. okpay -> btc-e is one way though. The trick is getting the money out.
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mgio
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May 23, 2013, 04:40:52 AM |
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Profit margins are too small for the risk For example if u move 5k u only have an 18$ profit after all the fees and commissions. Is that really worth the risk of losing a lot more in the event of a sudden price drop? Because who knows what might happen when your bitcoins take an hour to transfer to Gox.
There doesn't have to be any risk. Have double the amount of bitcoins you wish to sell. Transfer one set first. Buy and sell at the same time. Then transfer the second set over. Repeat.
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myself
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May 23, 2013, 06:37:02 AM |
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is anyone really doing this ? since the ask wall on bitstamp is still there and quite big
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Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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crazy_rabbit
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May 23, 2013, 07:03:55 AM |
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Profit margins are too small for the risk For example if u move 5k u only have an 18$ profit after all the fees and commissions. Is that really worth the risk of losing a lot more in the event of a sudden price drop? Because who knows what might happen when your bitcoins take an hour to transfer to Gox.
There doesn't have to be any risk. Have double the amount of bitcoins you wish to sell. Transfer one set first. Buy and sell at the same time. Then transfer the second set over. Repeat. how would you move the fiat from Gox to Bitstamp?
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more or less retired.
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keatonatron
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Jack of oh so many trades.
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May 23, 2013, 07:15:11 AM |
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There doesn't have to be any risk. Have double the amount of bitcoins you wish to sell. Transfer one set first. Buy and sell at the same time. Then transfer the second set over. Repeat.
how would you move the fiat from Gox to Bitstamp? I believe in this situation "transfer over" means withdraw to your bank account and then send a wire transfer from your bank account to the next exchange. Would probably take at least a week or so and you would incur more fees.
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miningusa
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May 23, 2013, 07:16:37 AM |
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I was really suprised by how close bitstamp and mt.gox is now. Good to see other exchanges not $10+ behind mt. gox.
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myself
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chaos is fun...…damental :)
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May 23, 2013, 12:54:47 PM |
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allot of talk about arbitrage, today volume on bitstamp is 2700, so allot of talk and just that
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Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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Miz4r
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May 23, 2013, 01:00:22 PM |
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allot of talk about arbitrage, today volume on bitstamp is 2700, so allot of talk and just that
Bitstamp's volume is almost 50% of that of Gox the past 24 hours: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/USD.html
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Bitcoin = Gold on steroids
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myself
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chaos is fun...…damental :)
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May 23, 2013, 01:04:50 PM |
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2013-05-23 00:00:00 123.8 125.9 123 125.9 10510.69 1310079.6 124.64
vs 2013-05-23 00:00:00 119.11 119.85 118.36 119.85 2987.05 356834.5 119.46
more like 30% also mtgox price goes up not down so mtgox buyers beat any arbitrage sellers
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Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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Miz4r
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May 23, 2013, 01:10:49 PM |
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2013-05-23 00:00:00 123.8 125.9 123 125.9 10510.69 1310079.6 124.64
vs 2013-05-23 00:00:00 119.11 119.85 118.36 119.85 2987.05 356834.5 119.46
more like 30% also mtgox price goes up not down so mtgox buyers beat any arbitrage sellers Where did you get those numbers from? I'm seeing 20k 24h volume for MtGox vs 8.7k for Bitstamp. That's almost 50%.
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Bitcoin = Gold on steroids
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