Hashflare screwed us up.

[swogerino]

Why do people send money to cloud mining websites ? Are they afraid they can't keep the money without spending them so they think this is a good alternative to keep their money safe and in the meantime get some interest over it ? Even so, giving money to someone else to hold it for you without interest is risky enough, when you add interest then it becomes very dangerous. There are better ways to spend your money. If you are so obsessed with making bitcoins rather than giving money to cloud mining websites buy an antminer and mine from your home.
In these days even 0.001 bitcoin is important so do not send money to cloud mining websites.

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[bobb120]

Really? So.. tell us.. how many antminers s7 do you have? Have you preordered s9? A dozen? 

[Maveth13]

I dont really believe what's happening, I assume Hashflare will give new users 1 year contract, And old users with their lifetime contract can still carry
on buying and reinvesting. I notice nothing change with my old 2014 account but i'm still watching.

I think you should check again, this is part of their letter:

"All SHA-256 and Scrypt contracts activated prior to 01.09.2017 will expire on 31.08.2018."

I don't even know why people would invest in cloud mining, the profit is so small.
Say let's give the company a benefit of the doubt that they are not a scam, the action was still very unethical and in fact against the law. I wouldn't trust any amount to these people.
Cutting the contracts down to 1 year AND doubling the price without notice is a slap in the face for their customers.

[Kyraishi]

Pretty sure that this is illegal as well. You can't just agree to a contract and then later rewrite it without the other party's consent, this doesn't make any sense becasue this defies the whole point of a contract in the first place.

Basically, they are blaming bitcoin volatility for this. How is this so?

The buyers of hashflare's contract is literally betting on bitcoin to be volatile and going upwards. Hashflare reducing the terms of these contracts without any other form of compensation literally makes investing in them absolutely pointless.

[LuanX3]

Oh so that was why a lot of people just suddenly started dumping their accounts at the digital goods section. I saw a lot of newbie accounts that suddenly posted they want to sell their accounts on hashflare. Though I am not sure if anyone would want them. Probably if it was for cheap then it could be sold. Looking at how bad the profits are on cloudmining is, I doubt anyone would be remotely interested in a 1 year only contract.

[timerland]

Yeah this is completely unacceptable. They can't just change their contract without any sort of warning, and without any sort of agreement from their customers.

They were already charging maintenance fees for their service, they do not deserve to cut down the customers' contracts just for their benefit.

I'm lucky that i didn't invest in hashflare(actually i don't do cloud mining at all because they are all shady companies), but if you did please don't just stay quiet about it. Complain to their customer support, if they don't budge then try to get the founder somehow.

[LuanX3]

Yeah this is completely unacceptable. They can't just change their contract without any sort of warning, and without any sort of agreement from their customers.

They were already charging maintenance fees for their service, they do not deserve to cut down the customers' contracts just for their benefit.

I'm lucky that i didn't invest in hashflare(actually i don't do cloud mining at all because they are all shady companies), but if you did please don't just stay quiet about it. Complain to their customer support, if they don't budge then try to get the founder somehow.

I think the support has no say on this issue. Then I don't think there is a chance they will budge really. Not sure where hashflare users could complain to compel hashflare to take it back. This is going to be a big issue in the next few weeks for sure. With enough people complaining for sure there would be some sort of action that will happen.

[wantjokull]

Oh, thats why my contract is stopping.

Im not getting profit on them, even i just test it before. Deposit about 10 GHS and get some referal, but still this isnt good earning if they change it to 1 year contract. Because already 1 year and i just get about 32k satoshi from 0.001 Deposit before 

Off course it is not profitable at all. How could you earn profits within one year of period if your ROI sets for longer than that. No matter what you do bring more referrals or stuff like that they have predefined calculation which tells that user will never get the returns. Now contract restriction to one year has increased probability loosing the funds and most probably te site is gong down. Hopefully people should understand this right now and take back the money which they can't because they are bound with contract which was signed off from hashflare site. Yup that's screwing up.

[carlfebz2]

Yeah this is completely unacceptable. They can't just change their contract without any sort of warning, and without any sort of agreement from their customers.

They were already charging maintenance fees for their service, they do not deserve to cut down the customers' contracts just for their benefit.

I'm lucky that i didn't invest in hashflare(actually i don't do cloud mining at all because they are all shady companies), but if you did please don't just stay quiet about it. Complain to their customer support, if they don't budge then try to get the founder somehow.

I think the support has no say on this issue. Then I don't think there is a chance they will budge really. Not sure where hashflare users could complain to compel hashflare to take it back. This is going to be a big issue in the next few weeks for sure. With enough people complaining for sure there would be some sort of action that will happen.

There would really be action if people or investors would make complaints regarding on the sudden change.For those people who do said above that earnings comes lesser as the times goes by there nothing to be shocked about since it just really a normal thing on cloud mining site thinking off that mining difficulty do rise up. This is the thing I do see this is why I don't engage on cloud mining site even they would say that they are legit.

[bitkilo]

There must be another thread on this here that i have just not seen yet, this is crazy for the company to do. If they survive in business after this is the way they treat their customers ten i would be very surprised.

At Bitcoin.com we would never treat customers this way or do anything such as change the terms of a contract that's already active unless it was to benefit the customer, like when we increased our non profit terms on all contracts from 7 to 60 days.

[I4me2]

Doesn't this raise the question whether BTC mining is profitable at all when you continuously have to upgrade your hardware to keep up with the rest?

The only way cloud mining can be profitable is with a lifetime contract where you reinvest half your gains every month to keep up with the difficulty increases. GM will probably follow suit at some point. So, that's the end of cloud mining. But isn't this also the end for proof of work mining in general? I understand it takes about 10 months of mining for an Antminer S9 to pay for the cost of the machine, while in about a year or so you have to buy a newer model. It doesn't look like it's going to be profitable any time soon. And that spells disaster for Bitcoin itself and all other PoW coins.

[bobb120]

it is already has been the end of the cloud mining. because Hashflare and GM were the last of the mohicans who were actually using hardware to mine for the customers and not a Ponzi scheme. However as you can see the hashflare shoot themselves in the groin and GM (if you haven't heard) are in troubles so much that they are franticly running a Ponzi temporarily to close the gap after most of their and their customers money were stolen. And I am not sure they will survive. So there is nothing left.. Read the news or something..

[I4me2]

But you still believe it's sufficiently profitable to mine BTC yourself as that was my actual question next to the belated conclusion that cloud mining has died. Because if even regular mining becomes a challenge, or when mining can only be done by hardware manufacturers and electricity companies, then we'll have to say goodbye to Proof of Work I fear.

[timerland]

Yeah this is completely unacceptable. They can't just change their contract without any sort of warning, and without any sort of agreement from their customers.

They were already charging maintenance fees for their service, they do not deserve to cut down the customers' contracts just for their benefit.

I'm lucky that i didn't invest in hashflare(actually i don't do cloud mining at all because they are all shady companies), but if you did please don't just stay quiet about it. Complain to their customer support, if they don't budge then try to get the founder somehow.

I think the support has no say on this issue. Then I don't think there is a chance they will budge really. Not sure where hashflare users could complain to compel hashflare to take it back. This is going to be a big issue in the next few weeks for sure. With enough people complaining for sure there would be some sort of action that will happen.

Well, if support gets enough requests for this then potentially they will reflect up to Hashflare management. I know that it seems unlikely but it is worth a try, it's completely free and you wouldn't lose anything through complaining to support.

it is already has been the end of the cloud mining. because Hashflare and GM were the last of the mohicans who were actually using hardware to mine for the customers and not a Ponzi scheme. However as you can see the hashflare shoot themselves in the groin and GM (if you haven't heard) are in troubles so much that they are franticly running a Ponzi temporarily to close the gap after most of their and their customers money were stolen. And I am not sure they will survive. So there is nothing left.. Read the news or something..

Cloud mining was never a profitable way to earn bitcoins.

In fact, you don't get anything at all. You would be lucky if you got even your ROI back. So I guess hashflare just couldn't keep up investors expectations and make profit for themselves anymore, therefore the only way out apart from going scam or ponzi is to cut down contract lengths.

[bobb120]

But you still believe it's sufficiently profitable to mine BTC yourself

Im afraid I don't have an answer.. I am currently thinking of buying a bazooka and shooting their latvian-Russian mafiozo arises to the moon.

The 95% of polish migrants in the UK are builders and nurses etc. Honest working folks. There are almost none of Czechs and Hungarians (cos they just don't like work). And from the baltic states are quite a lot of them and 90% are mafia and prostitutes.

[bobb120]

Well, if support gets enough requests for this then potentially

Dont be naive. I read the announcement within about 15 minutes after it was released. I wrote the ticket immediately and the Web page said there are 4000+ tickets in the queue.

It's like. Yeah north Korea won't be ever be able to enrich plutonium. Then next year yeah NK is decade away from building an ICBM. Then next year yeah they are at least 3 years away from minituarising nuclear device. Then 9 month later. FUCK they are aiming right between our eyes..

Sometime I wonder how you Americans can find your pants in the morning.

[DeltaR95]

Well, to me it looks like they planned this from the start... the following is an exerpt from my complaint after the ToS change...

(HashFlare Support)

Sep 12, 10:13 EEST
Hi,

Thank you for the letter!

We are a market player, not a market maker. We are forced to move with the trends and available resources. In this case, availability of hardware is lowering to a mark where we are not able to remain profitable in long-term. Equipment is not infinite nor does it work indefinitely.

HashFlare initially guaranteed and continues to guarantee one thing: the hashrate the user has rented will continue in full until the contract expires.

Equipment periodically suffers malfunctions and has to be replaced, this is included in the price. However, if there is a deficit of equipment, we would reach a point when we become unable to offer new contracts, due to available equipment’s hashrate being sold out. In the current situation, if contracts would have remained lifetime, this point would be reached a lot sooner.

The compensation, in this case, is the price they purchased the initial contracts with since it is considerably lower.

The calculations and projections have shown we have to move quickly.

All new SHA-256 and Scrypt contracts will be issued for a limited term of 1 year from the moment of activation. All SHA-256 and Scrypt contracts activated prior to 01.09.2017 will expire on 31.08.2018.


Best regards,
######
HashFlare.io Support Team

I stopped talking to them and will take a lawyer...

[xFiber]

I don't believe people keep investing in these cloudmining sites. If you even slightly look at their business model you will realize it's not profitable by the slightest. Just stay away from all these cloudmining sites. You will make money sitting on your bitcoin than investing them in cloudmining.

[error08]

Well, to me it looks like they planned this from the start... the following is an exerpt from my complaint after the ToS change...

(HashFlare Support)

Sep 12, 10:13 EEST
Hi,

Thank you for the letter!

We are a market player, not a market maker. We are forced to move with the trends and available resources. In this case, availability of hardware is lowering to a mark where we are not able to remain profitable in long-term. Equipment is not infinite nor does it work indefinitely.

HashFlare initially guaranteed and continues to guarantee one thing: the hashrate the user has rented will continue in full until the contract expires.

Equipment periodically suffers malfunctions and has to be replaced, this is included in the price. However, if there is a deficit of equipment, we would reach a point when we become unable to offer new contracts, due to available equipment’s hashrate being sold out. In the current situation, if contracts would have remained lifetime, this point would be reached a lot sooner.

The compensation, in this case, is the price they purchased the initial contracts with since it is considerably lower.

The calculations and projections have shown we have to move quickly.

All new SHA-256 and Scrypt contracts will be issued for a limited term of 1 year from the moment of activation. All SHA-256 and Scrypt contracts activated prior to 01.09.2017 will expire on 31.08.2018.


Best regards,
######
HashFlare.io Support Team

I stopped talking to them and will take a lawyer...

Good job, I'm on your back. You must invested so much money in hashflare mining.
They just lose in cloud mining competition and decide to change the rules which harming many all of their customers.
Soon, their services will be closed and this is just an act to cover their expenses to pay customers and cut their lose.
And that's why invest in cloud mining isn't worth for long term due to mining difficulty that always increase over time.

[DeltaR95]

error08, I got all bitcoins back that I invested. But as I understand their reply, it smells like a ponzi or snowball system. Sell new hashrate to finance the payouts to old customers. So I will gladly sue them in court for that. All their arguments point to that direction...