[VIDEO] Issues at BFL - Exposing Whitespace in BTC markets

[smoothie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8vwuwibQ_tQ#!

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[Bicknellski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8vwuwibQ_tQ#!

+1

[Bicknellski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8vwuwibQ_tQ#!

This video needs a follow up.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86243.msg949219#msg949219 and possibly add a few more hypocritical aspects like these posts from the past. Exposing the white HYPOCRITICAL spaces is what we need.

[Unacceptable]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8vwuwibQ_tQ#!

This video needs a follow up.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86243.msg949219#msg949219 and possibly add a few more hypocritical aspects like these posts from the past. Exposing the white HYPOCRITICAL spaces is what we need.

   I missed that post...............transparency applies to ALL,except BFL & Avalon........of course    Just WOW  

Just replace MTGox with BFL in that post & voila 

[Bicknellski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8vwuwibQ_tQ#!

This video needs a follow up.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86243.msg949219#msg949219 and possibly add a few more hypocritical aspects like these posts from the past. Exposing the white HYPOCRITICAL spaces is what we need.

   I missed that post...............transparency applies to ALL,except BFL & Avalon........of course    Just WOW  

Just replace MTGox with BFL in that post & voila 

Where did all that moxie for TRUTH and JUSTICE go I wonder?

Inaba = Shady Hypocrite.

[bcp19]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8vwuwibQ_tQ#!

This video needs a follow up.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86243.msg949219#msg949219 and possibly add a few more hypocritical aspects like these posts from the past. Exposing the white HYPOCRITICAL spaces is what we need.

   I missed that post...............transparency applies to ALL,except BFL & Avalon........of course    Just WOW  

Just replace MTGox with BFL in that post & voila 

Where did all that moxie for TRUTH and JUSTICE go I wonder?

Inaba = Shady Hypocrite.

While Josh was being a hypocrit, transparancy is one of those things that cut both ways.  What if in October he announced they already had 200TH or 500TH or 1PH of orders?  People would have run to their calculators and paniced and cancelled orders.  In other words they would have made a run on the bank and caused it to fold.  Now put yourself in his place... would you have told the whole truth and watched your company destroyed by greedy people who overordered without the consideration of the consequence of their actions who demand refunds and call you a fraud?

[Bicknellski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8vwuwibQ_tQ#!

This video needs a follow up.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86243.msg949219#msg949219 and possibly add a few more hypocritical aspects like these posts from the past. Exposing the white HYPOCRITICAL spaces is what we need.

   I missed that post...............transparency applies to ALL,except BFL & Avalon........of course    Just WOW  

Just replace MTGox with BFL in that post & voila 

Yup you know it. Frizz did just that.

[fractal02]

This video...c'mon...

Just some random Meth-face whining on camera...
NEXT !

Hey guys i have for you, your next Advisor/mentor ==>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txNmh8i3AyA

[Bicknellski]

I wonder if it will be hard to get tickets for the BFL trial?

[fractal02]

I wonder if it will be hard to get tickets for the BFL trial?

Very hard...

All the whiners have no balls....so bad for you...no trials...only child whining everywhere 

[Bicknellski]

BFL is the whitespace in the BTC Market... needs to be painted over.

[Viceroy]

While Josh was being a hypocrit, transparancy is one of those things that cut both ways.  What if in October he announced they already had 200TH or 500TH or 1PH of orders?  People would have run to their calculators and paniced and cancelled orders.  In other words they would have made a run on the bank and caused it to fold.  Now put yourself in his place... would you have told the whole truth and watched your company destroyed by greedy people who overordered without the consideration of the consequence of their actions who demand refunds and call you a fraud?

So you are saying it was ok to lie because, even though that is fraud, it helped the company.  Right?

 

[Bicknellski]

While Josh was being a hypocrit, transparancy is one of those things that cut both ways.  What if in October he announced they already had 200TH or 500TH or 1PH of orders?  People would have run to their calculators and paniced and cancelled orders.  In other words they would have made a run on the bank and caused it to fold.  Now put yourself in his place... would you have told the whole truth and watched your company destroyed by greedy people who overordered without the consideration of the consequence of their actions who demand refunds and call you a fraud?

So you are saying it was ok to lie because, even though that is fraud, it helped the company.  Right?

 

Of course it is... BFL gets a pass on ethics.

[Viceroy]

The video sucked.  The speaker follows the broken logic that since BFL has shipped items they are not a scam.  The speaker has no idea what a long con is and/or the speaker appears ignorant of Sonny V's conviction for mail fraud.

[bcp19]

While Josh was being a hypocrit, transparancy is one of those things that cut both ways.  What if in October he announced they already had 200TH or 500TH or 1PH of orders?  People would have run to their calculators and paniced and cancelled orders.  In other words they would have made a run on the bank and caused it to fold.  Now put yourself in his place... would you have told the whole truth and watched your company destroyed by greedy people who overordered without the consideration of the consequence of their actions who demand refunds and call you a fraud?

So you are saying it was ok to lie because, even though that is fraud, it helped the company.  Right?

 

Of course it is... BFL gets a pass on ethics.

Transparency is simply one of the new buzz-words out there for people to get behind.  Let's compare GM and BFL a second.  Both have a product.  Both have created new products.  Both have had problems.  The difference here is that when GM has problems, it's likely to cost lives.  BFL's problems cause heartache.  Time and again I have read about car companies finding out about a dangerous flaw and the first question asked is something like:  What will this cost us in lawsuits vs what it will cost us in recalls?  <--- while that may NOT be fraud, it sure is shady.

People are killed every day in car crashes, why don't we sue the car companies?  Cause it's the people at fault NOT the car company.  They just produce product, how can they be liable for what people do with it afterward.

Now, fraud is another of those buzz words people love to throw around.  There's a guy in the UK claiming he'll sue BFL if the product HE HAS IN HAND does not live up to it's "lifetime guarantee".  When informed about the US laws governing that his response is that HE is governed by UK law and therefore he'll sue in a UK court for fraud.

You can twist my words anyway you like, but the plain and simple truth is that ANY company who took in the orders that BFL has would have been just as unforthcoming if they had had the same problems.

If this was the clear cut case of Fraud you paint it out to be, WHY have some lawyers turned down the case?  Everything you PSA adopters say points to an open and shut case.  BOOM, easy money.  What lawyer turns down easy money?

Go ahead, cry fraud, cry whatever you like.  If BFL had gone out of business, you'd be in virtually the same boat today with ASICMiner thoroughly ripping people off and Avalon nto being able to ship and tons of companies vieing to get your cash.

Since they did NOT go out of business, a lot of people are going to get what they paid for albeit later than expected.  Every person that paid for a $30,000 mini will get that mini as long as the company is not brought to it's knees by detractors trying to shut them down.  I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty damn happy getting a $30,000 unit a bit late VS paying $1,000,000 to ASICMiner for less hash and absolutely NO chance to get my money back.

There you go.  YOU feel screwed, now let's take down the company and screw EVERYONE.  Sorry, but THAT is the definition of childish in my book.

[k9quaint]

Since they did NOT go out of business, a lot of people are going to get what they paid for albeit later than expected.  Every person that paid for a $30,000 mini will get that mini as long as the company is not brought to it's knees by detractors trying to shut them down.  I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty damn happy getting a $30,000 unit a bit late VS paying $1,000,000 to ASICMiner for less hash and absolutely NO chance to get my money back.

There you go.  YOU feel screwed, now let's take down the company and screw EVERYONE.  Sorry, but THAT is the definition of childish in my book.

You are making assumptions again. If BFL is a Ponzi and has spent most of the pre-order money already, then they just got a fresh infusion of funds from the monarch photoshop. They could use these funds in a responsible manner and use them to build out the rest of the pre-order investor's merchandise. But then what would they spend on developing monarch? Also, why would you expect a Ponzi scheme to suddenly act responsibly.

If they are not a Ponzi, then they could afford to refund everyone and mine themselves with the equipment.

You assume that one day the music won't stop. Even Bernie Madoff who ran a Ponzi scheme for 20 years had to stop dancing eventually. The longer the music plays, the more money is eventually lost. That is why you put a stop to shady operations instead of letting them fester.

PSA:
If you have ordered from ButterFly Labs and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask ButterFly Labs for a refund, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. Multiple customers have already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via Bitcoin or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with ButterFly Labs to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
You can also do a paper filing with the DA here: http://da.jocogov.org/complaint-forms

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from ButterFly Labs, here are two:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272585.0

[bcp19]

Since they did NOT go out of business, a lot of people are going to get what they paid for albeit later than expected.  Every person that paid for a $30,000 mini will get that mini as long as the company is not brought to it's knees by detractors trying to shut them down.  I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty damn happy getting a $30,000 unit a bit late VS paying $1,000,000 to ASICMiner for less hash and absolutely NO chance to get my money back.

There you go.  YOU feel screwed, now let's take down the company and screw EVERYONE.  Sorry, but THAT is the definition of childish in my book.

You are making assumptions again. If BFL is a Ponzi and has spent most of the pre-order money already, then they just got a fresh infusion of funds from the monarch photoshop. They could use these funds in a responsible manner and use them to build out the rest of the pre-order investor's merchandise. But then what would they spend on developing monarch? Also, why would you expect a Ponzi scheme to suddenly act responsibly.

If they are not a Ponzi, then they could afford to refund everyone and mine themselves with the equipment.

You assume that one day the music won't stop. Even Bernie Madoff who ran a Ponzi scheme for 20 years had to stop dancing eventually. The longer the music plays, the more money is eventually lost. That is why you put a stop to shady operations instead of letting them fester.

PSA:
If you have ordered from ButterFly Labs and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask ButterFly Labs for a refund, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. Multiple customers have already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via Bitcoin or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with ButterFly Labs to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
You can also do a paper filing with the DA here: http://da.jocogov.org/complaint-forms

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from ButterFly Labs, here are two:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272585.0

Yet again, speculation without proof.  Easy to do.  I simply ask for proof, can you provide it?

[Viceroy]

Proof of what?  BFL's officers lying about delivery dates in public in several forums?  

[bcp19]

Proof of what?  BFL's officers lying about delivery dates in public in several forums?  

So lying = ponzi.  Thank you for your definition, I do not believe it holds water in court.  Do you have any OTHER proof, that MIGHT hold up?

[Viceroy]

Proof of what?  BFL's officers lying about delivery dates in public in several forums?  

So lying = ponzi.  Thank you for your definition, I do not believe it holds water in court.  Do you have any OTHER proof, that MIGHT hold up?

That's a weird connection to make.  Glad you agree on the point that BFL's officers lied in public about delivery dates.

[Inaba]

Proof of what?  BFL's officers lying about delivery dates in public in several forums? 

Provide proof of lies.  What's that, you can't?  I wonder why...

[bcp19]

Proof of what?  BFL's officers lying about delivery dates in public in several forums?  

So lying = ponzi.  Thank you for your definition, I do not believe it holds water in court.  Do you have any OTHER proof, that MIGHT hold up?

That's a weird connection to make.  Glad you agree on the point that BFL's officers lied in public about delivery dates.

I never agreed to anything, I simply stated, by inferrence of your statements, "So, lying = ponzi?"  and I thanked you for your definition.  YOU inferred I was agreeing with you, which I was not.

You claim they lied, but have no proof.  Now you are twisting my words.  Why would you need to twist *my* words if you have proof?

[Bicknellski]

Here are just a few of the areas where your veracity is lacking.

FCC?
Refunds?
Delivery dates?
Knowledge of backdoor shipments to Cloudhasing?
Knowledge of production delays not passed on to customers?
No refund policy without determined shipping dates?

Shall we play another game?


How about defamation of character?

[Inaba]

Here are just a few of the areas where your veracity is lacking.

FCC?
Refunds?
Delivery dates?
Knowledge of backdoor shipments to Cloudhasing?
Knowledge of production delays not passed on to customers?
No refund policy without determined shipping dates?

Shall we play another game?


How about defamation of character?

Like I said, provide proof.  You have yet to do so.  Until you do, all you're doing is lying or at best, proffering an ill-informed opinion.

[bcp19]

Here are just a few of the areas where your veracity is lacking.

FCC?
Refunds?
Delivery dates?
Knowledge of backdoor shipments to Cloudhasing?
Knowledge of production delays not passed on to customers?
No refund policy without determined shipping dates?

Shall we play another game?


How about defamation of character?

Sounds like an idea.  You're worthless scum that doesn't deserve to live, you should be shot and hanged just for the hell of it.  You're a blight on the workforce as well.  You shouldn't have children, your DNA needs to be squashed from the genepool.

Now go file a lawsuit against Josh and see where it gets you

[Bicknellski]

Here are just a few of the areas where your veracity is lacking.

FCC?
Refunds?
Delivery dates?
Knowledge of backdoor shipments to Cloudhasing?
Knowledge of production delays not passed on to customers?
No refund policy without determined shipping dates?

Shall we play another game?


How about defamation of character?

Like I said, provide proof.  You have yet to do so.  Until you do, all you're doing is lying or at best, proffering an ill-informed opinion.

All documented in this forum and most in your own posts from the BFL forums.

Feel free to browse the forums at your leisure. I am sure you are not going to deny you lied about the FCC having your units being tested and that it would be ready in 2 weeks time?

I think there are many people waiting for you to directly answer that question. Funny you seem to like calling people LIARS but when asked a specific question you simply make accusations. Have you had training in this sort deceptive practice in the past? It seems very suspect that you can't simply answer that question, and even more telling you won't deny any of the accusations directly. Did you send your units to be tested at the FCC?

Once you have answered that question. I will post the evidence I have of your statements in your own forums.

We will then move on to the second question as to refunds and your statements as to why you lied to your own customers on your website about the BFL policy regarding refunds and when they we instituted. If you don't want to answer these questions for legal reasons I will understand no one wants to get you into trouble.

Your defense lawyer is going to really have to work with you on how to properly evade the question. I plead the 5th will be your mantra. Learn it now it might save you jail time.

[Inaba]

Here are just a few of the areas where your veracity is lacking.

FCC?
Refunds?
Delivery dates?
Knowledge of backdoor shipments to Cloudhasing?
Knowledge of production delays not passed on to customers?
No refund policy without determined shipping dates?

Shall we play another game?


How about defamation of character?

Like I said, provide proof.  You have yet to do so.  Until you do, all you're doing is lying or at best, proffering an ill-informed opinion.

All documented in this forum and most in your own posts from the BFL forums.

Feel free to browse the forums at your leisure. I am sure you are not going to deny you lied about the FCC having your units being tested and that it would be ready in 2 weeks time?

I think there are many people waiting for you to directly answer that question. Funny you seem to like calling people LIARS but when asked a specific question you simply make accusations. Have you had training in this sort deceptive practice in the past? It seems very suspect that you can't simply answer that question, and even more telling you won't deny any of the accusations directly. Did you send your units to be tested at the FCC?

Once you have answered that question. I will post the evidence I have of your statements in your own forums.

We will then move on to the second question as to refunds and your statements as to why you lied to your own customers on your website about the BFL policy regarding refunds and when they we instituted. If you don't want to answer these questions for legal reasons I will understand no one wants to get you into trouble.

Your defense lawyer is going to really have to work with you on how to properly evade the question. I plead the 5th will be your mantra. Learn it now it might save you jail time.

And still you fail to provide any proof.  Gosh, this is interesting.  I wonder why you're unable to provide any proof?  The "Well, I'm sure it's around here somewhere" argument doesn't exactly work here.  So not only are you a failure at business, you're also a failure at... well... looks like everything so far.