2013-05-23 CNN: Bitcoin more powerful than fastest supercomputers

[yvv]

This is a fun game!

Why hasn't anyone pointed out yet that the US currency system is far less efficient to maintain? How many employees work for the Federal Reserve and all it's banks? It's in the tens of thousands at least (although hard data is tough to come by on the interwebs). They work in huge buildings that require electricity and maintenance. I'd bet that the electiricity cost for the combined data backbone of the federal reserve system is far higher than bitcoin. What about the paper printing presses and "distribution" system? How about cars for the Bernanke to travel back and forth to Congress to argue with uppity congressmen? And, don't even try to compare Bitcoin to this giant waste:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Federal_Reserve_Bank_of_Philadelphia.jpg

This giant waste takes care of trillions of USD and millions of transactions per day. Bitcoin is not even close to this scale yet.

[pwi]

The part that stood out in this article to me: $200,000 electricity/day & 60,000 transactions/day. $3.33 per transaction in electricity cost?

The 60,000 transactions per day is correct. I don't know about the $200,000, could be (this stat is an estimate from blockchain.info/stats and says: * Electricity consumption is estimated based on power consumption of 650 Watts per gigahash and electricity price of 15 cent per kilowatt hour. In reality some miners will be more or less efficient). The beauty with the Bitcoin system is that it will always balance out, if the price drops less miners will mine because it is not worthwhile anymore. So the total amount of electricity being used will also drop then. If the Bitcoin value rises it also means demand (and consequently the amount of transactions) is rising and you would need more computing power to handle everything. This will also happen because it will be more beneficial to start and mine again.

I know and understand very little about the mining of bitcoins other than miners facilitate my transactions and earn fees + block rewards for doing so. Is it essentially very inefficient to mine sans the reward? If the reward devalues at any point, mining, and subsequently transaction processing will slow, potentially grinding to a halt?

This is troublesome. However, it also presents an opportunity for less resource intensive and possibly lower value altcoins. Me thinks diversifying into litecoin might be a good idea.

The theoretical infinite divisibility of BTC potentially sets it up for future failure by reaching the maximum network carrying capacity too soon. Less miners and less people running -qt seems like a bad thing to me. It makes sense why Gavin has said small transactions will be 86'd in the future.

Thank you for the clarification. Every solution brings more problems.

[TraderTimm]

I ignored the troll - probably should've last night but I had to get a word in edgewise.

Relatively new account, scant number of posts - should've given it away.

[cypherdoc]

This is a fun game!

Why hasn't anyone pointed out yet that the US currency system is far less efficient to maintain? How many employees work for the Federal Reserve and all it's banks? It's in the tens of thousands at least (although hard data is tough to come by on the interwebs). They work in huge buildings that require electricity and maintenance. I'd bet that the electiricity cost for the combined data backbone of the federal reserve system is far higher than bitcoin. What about the paper printing presses and "distribution" system? How about cars for the Bernanke to travel back and forth to Congress to argue with uppity congressmen? And, don't even try to compare Bitcoin to this giant waste:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Federal_Reserve_Bank_of_Philadelphia.jpg

to top it all off, you can't put a price on all the corruption.

[Foxpup]

Yes. Important research that has to be paid for with currency of some kind or another, just like everything else of benefit to society.

What exactly does that have to do with anything? Are you actually implying that because cancer research cost money, it shouldnt be done? Or just that you refuse to help if you arent personally getting paid?

Either way, you sound like an awful person.

I'm saying it won't be done if it can't be paid for. What, do you actually think all those labs and microscopes and doctors just fall for free from the sky or something?

[Gabi]

You basically just handwaved away all the benefits Bitcoin has over any traditional banking systems.

Pretty sure cancer research is more important that a p2p payment system.

Actually for cancer research to exist a decent economic system is required.

[SEC agent]

Yes. Important research that has to be paid for with currency of some kind or another, just like everything else of benefit to society.

What exactly does that have to do with anything? Are you actually implying that because cancer research cost money, it shouldnt be done? Or just that you refuse to help if you arent personally getting paid?

Either way, you sound like an awful person.

I'm saying it won't be done if it can't be paid for. What, do you actually think all those labs and microscopes and doctors just fall for free from the sky or something?

I don't think you understand how this works. Folding@home already has funding. You contribute by having your computer runs simulates folding various proteins and drug simulations for the project, which in turn is used by scientists around the world for various types of disease research. In fact, the project has been extremely successful.

I still have no clue why you think any of this is relevant to the discussion, but whatever.

[Foxpup]

I don't think you understand how this works. Folding@home already has funding. You contribute by having your computer runs simulates folding various proteins and drug simulations for the project, which in turn is used by scientists around the world for various types of disease research. In fact, the project has been extremely successful.

You know why it's successful? Because people can buy these computers, and electricity to run them, and pay scientists' salaries. You know how they do that? With money.

I still have no clue why you think any of this is relevant to the discussion, but whatever.

You have no clue why the importance of a secure and functional financial system in a modern society is relevant to a discussion on the merits of devoting resources to said financial system instead of other projects those resources could potentially be used for? Wow. And you're allegedly an SEC agent? You really ought to turn in your badge. Tell them it's because you suck at getting clues.

[solex]

You have no clue why the importance of a secure and functional financial system in a modern society is relevant to a discussion on the merits of devoting resources to said financial system instead of other projects those resources could potentially be used for? Wow. And you're allegedly an SEC agent? You really ought to turn in your badge. Tell them it's because you suck at getting clues.

+1 

[hl5460]

The power of all the computers networked together to maintain the digital currency's system far exceeds the combined processing strength of the top 500 most powerful supercomputers.

Easily. The matchup isn't even close.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/23/technology/enterprise/bitcoin-supercomputers/

Behold the power of peers!

[justusranvier]

No shit it costs money. How is that related to the giant waste of energy spent on Bitcoin (or how it would be better spent on a BOINC project?)

Apparently your severe case of autism keeps you from being able to follow conversations, because you have added exactly zero to this one.

I'm going to tell you something that you apparently have never heard before in your life. You might want to have a seat because this is going to blow your mind.

Ready? Ok, so you know all that energy and processing power that you're talking about? That's not being used in the way you think it should be used?

It's not yours. You can't rightfully tell everybody else how they should use it.

Amazing, isn't it? Despite everything you may have been told or thought up until now, you aren't the center of the universe and you don't know what's best for everyone. If other people have a different opinion than you about whether they should devote their resources to Bitcoin mining or to cancer research, you have no objective basis for calling them wrong or classifying their preferences as "waste" just because they disagree with you.

I know, it's pretty painful to accept that other people exist in the world and deserve to have opinions of their own, but at some point you've just got to accept it if you want to successfully operate in reality.

[SEC agent]

*silly rant*

Get mad all you like, I'm simply pointing out what a colossal amount of energy is wasted on some bullshit Internet funny money (whose primary use is drugs, money laundering, and child porn) as opposed to being used for doing something that actually benefits society in a meaningful and measurable way.  

For all of you bitcoiners big talk about taking down bankers and replacing government fiat, all you've managed to do is make it easier for pedophiles, violent criminals, terrorists, and drug traffickers to get paid, hide, and move money.

You should be super proud of yourselves.

[Gabi]

I still think that the comparison is pointless. Supercomputers are made for their tasks. They have huge hard disks, tons of memory, they have tons of nodes all connected to each other, they have good FLOPS performance, both single and double precision.

But all these things are useless for bitcoin. We only need tons of integer power. But the fact that we have more integer power does not mean we are more powerful than supercomputers!

[Foxpup]

For all of you bitcoiners big talk about taking down bankers and replacing government fiat, all you've managed to do is make it easier for pedophiles, violent criminals, terrorists, and drug traffickers to get paid, hide, and move money.

You should be super proud of yourselves.

We sure are. We invented a new technology, and it works. As a government agent, I believe it's your job to keep the general public safe if our inventions should happen to fall into the wrong hands. But it doesn't seem like you're actually doing your job. All you're doing is standing around complaining about the problem that you're in charge of fixing. Does your boss know about this?

[hamstorg]

the electricity argument is invalid. as asic chips will be taking over soon. gpu miners will have to quit, some will migrate. asic chips are far more effective. 1 ghash for a measly 10 watts. its like comparing incandescent bulbs to LED's. get your facts straight

[desired_username]

I cannot understand why some people (even on this bitcoin forum) so ignorant to call mining a useless thing.

We have a payment system, which doesn't require a central authority....try to comprehend this statement you ignorant lot.

As for the concerns of illegal activity, I've been involved in bitcoin for a few years now and I didn't order drugs, cp,  etc. Also, it's quite basic, but you can buy any illegal stuff with fiat. so, it's a moot point.

I cannot even understand why some people care to join and spread these false claims here

[aigeezer]

I cannot understand why some people (even on this bitcoin forum) so ignorant to call mining a useless thing.

...

I cannot even understand why some people care to join and spread these false claims here

The things you fret about are the essence of trolling. Nobody knows for sure why trolls do what they do, although it's often discussed. The usual explanation is that they seek attention, although sometimes it is obvious that they have an agenda to disrupt or to help one entity gain a competitive advantage over another.

Most people agree that the best defense is to ignore their posts. Engaging with them tends to encourage them to continue. The "ignore" button here is very helpful. However when people you don't (yet) ignore quote an ignored person's post then you still have to read the quotation. For blatant trolls who engage in tag-team-trolling or troll-vs.-troll flame wars, you'll eventually ignore all the participants and be left with a relatively normal discussion thread. It's all just part of life on the interwebz.

http://www.lowgenius.net/post/The-Way-Of-The-Kook.aspx