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Author Topic: Trezor or Paper Wallet?  (Read 3663 times)
Dudeperfect
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September 01, 2017, 02:08:04 PM
 #1

Hello Folks,

I am looking to invest in some top alt coins along with my Bitcoin holding for the long term. I have stored my Bitcoins on paper wallet now but I would like to give a try to the Trezor wallet.

Can you please help me with my queries,

1) Assume, I am going to hold 50% and spend rest 50% of my cryptocurrency fund on a regular basis, so should I keep all the Bitcoins in a single trezor wallet and spend using that wallet? or should I move savings in the paper wallet?

2) Which is better? I am worried about Trezor's sustainability for years. I can keep paper safe but worried about the electronic device.

3) What if I lose my hardware wallet or if it is accidentally destroyed? Can I recover my funds using the PIN and recovery phrase?

4) What are the pros and cons of using a Trezor wallet?

5) Any other suggestions for a Trezor noob?

P.S - As I am looking to hold at least top 10 alt-coins, I have heard that Trezor has limited support whereas ledgerwallet supports more alt-coins. Please guide in this regard too.

Best,
Dudeperfect

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September 01, 2017, 04:41:26 PM
 #2

Hello Folks,

I am looking to invest in some top alt coins along with my Bitcoin holding for the long term. I have stored my Bitcoins on paper wallet now but I would like to give a try to the Trezor wallet.

Can you please help me with my queries,

1) Assume, I am going to hold 50% and spend rest 50% of my cryptocurrency fund on a regular basis, so should I keep all the Bitcoins in a single trezor wallet and spend using that wallet? or should I move savings in the paper wallet?

2) Which is better? I am worried about Trezor's sustainability for years. I can keep paper safe but worried about the electronic device.

3) What if I lose my hardware wallet or if it is accidentally destroyed? Can I recover my funds using the PIN and recovery phrase?

4) What are the pros and cons of using a Trezor wallet?

5) Any other suggestions for a Trezor noob?

P.S - As I am looking to hold at least top 10 alt-coins, I have heard that Trezor has limited support whereas ledgerwallet supports more alt-coins. Please guide in this regard too.

Best,
Dudeperfect

Ledger is said to be of a higher security than trezor, although, the trezor allows you to control it from the handset (but it has to be plugged into a computer). I don't know if the new ledger is any good (they have a touchscreen version they've just brought out), but the previous ones are said to have more altcoin support. However, it is said that the previous ones need you to uninstall one wallet to install the next one.

Paper wallets are quite secure (unless they're physically stolen) but they have to be poduced on a computer that will eventually touch the internet. You can try to use actual wallets like the bitcoin version of electrum and any altcoins that are made that copy a similar code and run that on a cheap/old offline computer.

If you're wanting to use the trezor or ledger, note that it will definitely fail at some point so you'll have to ensure you write down and store the seed somewhere safe (though, that's just 12-13 random words that need storing). If your trezor fails/breaks/gets stolen, these words are used to regenerate your wallet for you. I think you should be able to use the same seed across the different altcoins as they should all use BIP39.

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September 01, 2017, 05:48:49 PM
 #3

Hello Folks,

I am looking to invest in some top alt coins along with my Bitcoin holding for the long term. I have stored my Bitcoins on paper wallet now but I would like to give a try to the Trezor wallet.

Can you please help me with my queries,

1) Assume, I am going to hold 50% and spend rest 50% of my cryptocurrency fund on a regular basis, so should I keep all the Bitcoins in a single trezor wallet and spend using that wallet? or should I move savings in the paper wallet?

2) Which is better? I am worried about Trezor's sustainability for years. I can keep paper safe but worried about the electronic device.

3) What if I lose my hardware wallet or if it is accidentally destroyed? Can I recover my funds using the PIN and recovery phrase?

4) What are the pros and cons of using a Trezor wallet?

5) Any other suggestions for a Trezor noob?

P.S - As I am looking to hold at least top 10 alt-coins, I have heard that Trezor has limited support whereas ledgerwallet supports more alt-coins. Please guide in this regard too.

Best,
Dudeperfect

Ledger is said to be of a higher security than trezor, although, the trezor allows you to control it from the handset (but it has to be plugged into a computer). I don't know if the new ledger is any good (they have a touchscreen version they've just brought out), but the previous ones are said to have more altcoin support. However, it is said that the previous ones need you to uninstall one wallet to install the next one.

Paper wallets are quite secure (unless they're physically stolen) but they have to be poduced on a computer that will eventually touch the internet. You can try to use actual wallets like the bitcoin version of electrum and any altcoins that are made that copy a similar code and run that on a cheap/old offline computer.

If you're wanting to use the trezor or ledger, note that it will definitely fail at some point so you'll have to ensure you write down and store the seed somewhere safe (though, that's just 12-13 random words that need storing). If your trezor fails/breaks/gets stolen, these words are used to regenerate your wallet for you. I think you should be able to use the same seed across the different altcoins as they should all use BIP39.

Thanks for your thoughts, As I mentioned above, I have generated paper wallets securely for Bitcoin and altcoins and even maintained a backup in soft as well as in hard copies and kept in a secured place.

That makes less flexible when it comes to the spending Bitcoins, and as of now, I am using web wallets to make regular transactions which are not so secure as we know thus I think I will go with both the options.

Hodling Bitcoin and altcoins in paper wallets (which I mentioned above) for the longer period such as 5 to 10 years and using the Trezor wallet for storing Bitcoins for short term/regular transactions.

If I am not wrong then hodling coins in the paper wallet for the long term and hodling in Trezor wallet for the same term is almost similar. I have to keep paper wallet secure in the first option and seed/passphrase in another option for that period as I am not going to touch it in between.

Trezor would help me to work with similar characteristics as that of the paper wallet but in a more flexible way to mitigate the risk of hodling the funds on web wallets.

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September 01, 2017, 05:57:36 PM
 #4

Hello Folks,

I am looking to invest in some top alt coins along with my Bitcoin holding for the long term. I have stored my Bitcoins on paper wallet now but I would like to give a try to the Trezor wallet.

Can you please help me with my queries,

1) Assume, I am going to hold 50% and spend rest 50% of my cryptocurrency fund on a regular basis, so should I keep all the Bitcoins in a single trezor wallet and spend using that wallet? or should I move savings in the paper wallet?

2) Which is better? I am worried about Trezor's sustainability for years. I can keep paper safe but worried about the electronic device.

3) What if I lose my hardware wallet or if it is accidentally destroyed? Can I recover my funds using the PIN and recovery phrase?

4) What are the pros and cons of using a Trezor wallet?

5) Any other suggestions for a Trezor noob?

P.S - As I am looking to hold at least top 10 alt-coins, I have heard that Trezor has limited support whereas ledgerwallet supports more alt-coins. Please guide in this regard too.

Best,
Dudeperfect

Ledger is said to be of a higher security than trezor, although, the trezor allows you to control it from the handset (but it has to be plugged into a computer). I don't know if the new ledger is any good (they have a touchscreen version they've just brought out), but the previous ones are said to have more altcoin support. However, it is said that the previous ones need you to uninstall one wallet to install the next one.

Paper wallets are quite secure (unless they're physically stolen) but they have to be poduced on a computer that will eventually touch the internet. You can try to use actual wallets like the bitcoin version of electrum and any altcoins that are made that copy a similar code and run that on a cheap/old offline computer.

If you're wanting to use the trezor or ledger, note that it will definitely fail at some point so you'll have to ensure you write down and store the seed somewhere safe (though, that's just 12-13 random words that need storing). If your trezor fails/breaks/gets stolen, these words are used to regenerate your wallet for you. I think you should be able to use the same seed across the different altcoins as they should all use BIP39.

Thanks for your thoughts, As I mentioned above, I have generated paper wallets securely for Bitcoin and altcoins and even maintained a backup in soft as well as in hard copies and kept in a secured place.

That makes less flexible when it comes to the spending Bitcoins, and as of now, I am using web wallets to make regular transactions which are not so secure as we know thus I think I will go with both the options.

Hodling Bitcoin and altcoins in paper wallets (which I mentioned above) for the longer period such as 5 to 10 years and using the Trezor wallet for storing Bitcoins for short term/regular transactions.

If I am not wrong then hodling coins in the paper wallet for the long term and hodling in Trezor wallet for the same term is almost similar. I have to keep paper wallet secure in the first option and seed/passphrase in another option for that period as I am not going to touch it in between.

Trezor would help me to work with similar characteristics as that of the paper wallet but in a more flexible way to mitigate the risk of hodling the funds on web wallets.

It might be an idea to store your day-to-day use coins on your actuall computer in a wallet such as electrum - instead or as well as the trezor (most likely, you'll be using electrum with the trezor anyway - though it has said not to be working with the latest versions of electrum).
Say you buy 10 bitcoins, you hodl 50% like you said onto your paper wallet, you hodl another 45% on your trezor, and then put the other 5% on the other wallet (either electrum or a web wallet) as 5% would be a reasonable amount of money you'd need. And you can keep on topping that up from the trezor if necessary.

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September 01, 2017, 06:11:08 PM
 #5

Hello Folks,

I am looking to invest in some top alt coins along with my Bitcoin holding for the long term. I have stored my Bitcoins on paper wallet now but I would like to give a try to the Trezor wallet.

Can you please help me with my queries,

1) Assume, I am going to hold 50% and spend rest 50% of my cryptocurrency fund on a regular basis, so should I keep all the Bitcoins in a single trezor wallet and spend using that wallet? or should I move savings in the paper wallet?

2) Which is better? I am worried about Trezor's sustainability for years. I can keep paper safe but worried about the electronic device.

3) What if I lose my hardware wallet or if it is accidentally destroyed? Can I recover my funds using the PIN and recovery phrase?

4) What are the pros and cons of using a Trezor wallet?

5) Any other suggestions for a Trezor noob?

P.S - As I am looking to hold at least top 10 alt-coins, I have heard that Trezor has limited support whereas ledgerwallet supports more alt-coins. Please guide in this regard too.

Best,
Dudeperfect

Ledger is said to be of a higher security than trezor, although, the trezor allows you to control it from the handset (but it has to be plugged into a computer). I don't know if the new ledger is any good (they have a touchscreen version they've just brought out), but the previous ones are said to have more altcoin support. However, it is said that the previous ones need you to uninstall one wallet to install the next one.

Paper wallets are quite secure (unless they're physically stolen) but they have to be poduced on a computer that will eventually touch the internet. You can try to use actual wallets like the bitcoin version of electrum and any altcoins that are made that copy a similar code and run that on a cheap/old offline computer.

If you're wanting to use the trezor or ledger, note that it will definitely fail at some point so you'll have to ensure you write down and store the seed somewhere safe (though, that's just 12-13 random words that need storing). If your trezor fails/breaks/gets stolen, these words are used to regenerate your wallet for you. I think you should be able to use the same seed across the different altcoins as they should all use BIP39.

Thanks for your thoughts, As I mentioned above, I have generated paper wallets securely for Bitcoin and altcoins and even maintained a backup in soft as well as in hard copies and kept in a secured place.

That makes less flexible when it comes to the spending Bitcoins, and as of now, I am using web wallets to make regular transactions which are not so secure as we know thus I think I will go with both the options.

Hodling Bitcoin and altcoins in paper wallets (which I mentioned above) for the longer period such as 5 to 10 years and using the Trezor wallet for storing Bitcoins for short term/regular transactions.

If I am not wrong then hodling coins in the paper wallet for the long term and hodling in Trezor wallet for the same term is almost similar. I have to keep paper wallet secure in the first option and seed/passphrase in another option for that period as I am not going to touch it in between.

Trezor would help me to work with similar characteristics as that of the paper wallet but in a more flexible way to mitigate the risk of hodling the funds on web wallets.

It might be an idea to store your day-to-day use coins on your actuall computer in a wallet such as electrum - instead or as well as the trezor (most likely, you'll be using electrum with the trezor anyway - though it has said not to be working with the latest versions of electrum).
Say you buy 10 bitcoins, you hodl 50% like you said onto your paper wallet, you hodl another 45% on your trezor, and then put the other 5% on the other wallet (either electrum or a web wallet) as 5% would be a reasonable amount of money you'd need. And you can keep on topping that up from the trezor if necessary.


Thanks, that really makes sense. I am avoiding Bitcoin core as I have issues with over 145 GB bandwidth and I am not sure if electrum is going to take that much of space or not. I was planning to use Trezor with the chrome extension and above-mentioned plan sounds perfect as 5% holding on the web wallets is not an issue at all.

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September 01, 2017, 06:26:23 PM
 #6

Thanks, that really makes sense. I am avoiding Bitcoin core as I have issues with over 145 GB bandwidth and I am not sure if electrum is going to take that much of space or not. I was planning to use Trezor with the chrome extension and above-mentioned plan sounds perfect as 5% holding on the web wallets is not an issue at all.
Just FYI, Electrum is a SPV wallet, which means that you don't need to download the whole Blockchain before using it. You will probably be able to manage your coins instantly after downloading the wallet.

What is a SPV wallet:

A Bitcoin implementation that does not verify everything, but instead relies on either connecting to a trusted node, or puts its faith in high difficulty as a proxy for proof of validity. BitCoinJ is an implementation of this mode.

I would still recommend you to just store your coins in Trezor. It is meant to be a hardware wallet that allows you to spend your coins in the day-by-day if you need to. And not necessarily to be a locked cold storage.

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September 01, 2017, 06:36:21 PM
 #7

Thanks, that really makes sense. I am avoiding Bitcoin core as I have issues with over 145 GB bandwidth and I am not sure if electrum is going to take that much of space or not. I was planning to use Trezor with the chrome extension and above-mentioned plan sounds perfect as 5% holding on the web wallets is not an issue at all.
Just FYI, Electrum is a SPV wallet, which means that you don't need to download the whole Blockchain before using it. You will probably be able to manage your coins instantly after downloading the wallet.

What is a SPV wallet:

A Bitcoin implementation that does not verify everything, but instead relies on either connecting to a trusted node, or puts its faith in high difficulty as a proxy for proof of validity. BitCoinJ is an implementation of this mode.

I would still recommend you to just store your coins in Trezor. It is meant to be a hardware wallet that allows you to spend your coins in the day-by-day if you need to. And not necessarily to be a locked cold storage.

You still need a wallet like electrum that is compatible with the trezor in order for the trezor to ever be at a state where it is able to sign transactions. I'd suggest a web wallet only if the transaction fees are 0 (I'm not sure if there are still some wallets online that enable this but it means you bypass treansaction fees). These can exist by using the bitcoins you input as an investment to produce an income for themselves that's fairly stable (I'm not sure if there are wallets that still do this, coinbase used to).

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September 02, 2017, 05:15:18 PM
 #8

Paper wallets are quite safe but there is always the risk for example that you will have a keylogger trojaner or something like that on your computer that steals your input once you type it in to get acces - where a hardware wallet stores the keys encrypted in an enviroment that will never be exposed to such a risk when you acces your wallets.
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September 02, 2017, 06:08:08 PM
 #9

i would say paperwallet + Laminate or carve on steel + SafeBox , shock , fire , water proof

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September 02, 2017, 06:16:47 PM
 #10

Great advice - I've been thinking about buying one of these too.
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September 04, 2017, 07:43:38 AM
 #11

Honestly just go for the paper wallet. I own a Trezor and I still havent used it. I have an ordinary USB that I have encrypted and it contains all the wallet files and the private keys for my cold storage needs.

Backing up your private keys and storing them well is all you really need. I dont see the value of buying more than $100 for a hardware wallet.

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September 04, 2017, 08:05:21 PM
 #12

If you plan to hold it for years without touching the funds, use a paper wallet. Trezor is a cold storage wallet, where your bitcoins are stored in a safe & strong environment with the ability to send & receive, unlike a paper wallet that needs to be redeemed if you want these funds.
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September 06, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
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I just saw a very interesting video of John McAfee talking about safety concerns on Cryptowallets - pointing out that nearly everyone who visits some porn sites sometimes has a key- and/or screenlogger on their computers without knowing it. He says it's just a matter of time that hackers will implement observation for example if you download or open certain wallets to trigger an alert for them that you might typing in interesting data like your private wallet keys.

Kind of opend my mind a bit more and I will definitly try to switch as much as possible to hardware wallets.

See the full talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syI9X_uKvUA
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September 08, 2017, 09:36:51 PM
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I would prefer trezor because it is also safe, when it is stolen. The thief doesn't have access but you can recover your wallet with a seed. Paper Wallet shows all needed data for capering the wallet.


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September 08, 2017, 10:53:17 PM
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I just saw a very interesting video of John McAfee talking about safety concerns on Cryptowallets - pointing out that nearly everyone who visits some porn sites sometimes has a key- and/or screenlogger on their computers without knowing it. He says it's just a matter of time that hackers will implement observation for example if you download or open certain wallets to trigger an alert for them that you might typing in interesting data like your private wallet keys.

Kind of opend my mind a bit more and I will definitly try to switch as much as possible to hardware wallets.

See the full talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syI9X_uKvUA

If you're going to attempt to use sites of that nature that put viruses or trojans onto your computer, I'd suggest you download Tor Browser to still view the sites but as a version that means things are more restricted such as downloads and cookie saving (from torproject.org).

I would prefer trezor because it is also safe, when it is stolen. The thief doesn't have access but you can recover your wallet with a seed. Paper Wallet shows all needed data for capering the wallet.

You do have to store the seed as a format similar to a paper wallet. You can store your paper wallet on a sandboxed computer just as you can store your seed. You can encrypt your paper wallet private key as mcuh as you want and using as many different techniques of encryption as possible (the same as you can do with your seed from a trrezor), though the trezor gives faster access to your coins.

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September 08, 2017, 11:12:21 PM
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i prefer paper wallet. because trezor is hardware too and it can be hacked one day.

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September 09, 2017, 05:44:58 PM
 #17

Can anyone explain how he knows for certain that a rogue employee at Trezor (or any hardware wallet manufacturer) have not and will not put in nefarious code into the firmware?


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September 09, 2017, 05:55:45 PM
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Can anyone explain how he knows for certain that a rogue employee at Trezor (or any hardware wallet manufacturer) have not and will not put in nefarious code into the firmware?
This already has been discussed before.

"You can read the trezor-mcu source code on github. Compile the code yourself using the docker build script and check that the hash matches. The bootloader also displays the hash on firmware update." - /u/-johoe

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4u7y3j/is_trezor_really_that_secure/
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/32544/how-can-trezor-update-firmware-but-never-receive-malware

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September 09, 2017, 06:33:20 PM
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This already has been discussed before.

"You can read the trezor-mcu source code on github. Compile the code yourself using the docker build script and check that the hash matches. The bootloader also displays the hash on firmware update." - /u/-johoe

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4u7y3j/is_trezor_really_that_secure/
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/32544/how-can-trezor-update-firmware-but-never-receive-malware

From your first link:

Quote
AFAIK, there is no such thing as checking the signature or hash value of a piece of hardware.

From your second link:

Quote
Assuming all this is implemented correctly and has no bugs or defects, that leaves only the possibility of malicious firmware signed by the manufacturer so that it would be accepted by the security firmware without tripping the safeguards. So to some extent, you have to trust the manufacturer.

This implies that you have to trust that the manufacturer doesn't have any rogue employees.


sachinunchwal02
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September 09, 2017, 06:57:23 PM
 #20

When it comes time to spend your paper wallet, you need to load that private key into some kind of device (eg. Computer, phone, table) and sign a transaction. At this stage, you have to worry about the security of that system. Is it compromised? Does it have a hacked/buggy RNG? Will it leak your keys through a side channel? The trezor does the signing securely on the device. The keys never leave it and never need to be loaded onto another device.
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