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Author Topic: Bitcoin is a Ponzi Scheme. Check my logic. You better hope I'm wrong.  (Read 1662 times)
nolimitnp
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September 04, 2017, 06:41:16 AM
 #1

First, I don't want anyone thinking they know what a ponzi scheme is. I want you to KNOW what a ponzi scheme is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBGgHT2UT7o&t=18s

Or go to YouTube and search "What is a Ponzi scheme Moneyweek Investment Tutorials". The entire video just keep thinking Roger Ver, Roger Ver.


The overwhelming majority of Bitcoin in existence was obtained for essentially nothing by miners and early adopters for mere pennies. Roger Ver probably has 100,000. Until mid 2016, the price had remained mostly steady, although still volatile. In just the last year Bitcoins value has increased from $500 to almost $5000. But what is causing the price to rise so quickly to there incredible levels? You want to believe its because more people are entering the market, but that's not how it works. Cryptocurrency is unregulated, meaning it's completely possible for there not to be a market at all, but a market simulation. I'm telling you the market IS a simulation. People are seeing the consistent price increases in pretty much everything and don't want to miss out, so more and more people are buying in. We all have dreams of Bitcoin hitting $100,000 or higher. Then we've got people like Roger Ver, Jeff Berwick, Andreas M. Antonopoulos touting Bitcoin as the savior of humanity, which not only convinces more people to buy in, but also hold. And to be fair, maybe Berwick and Andreas are as naive as we are, but they were in early. This creates market liquidity. Meanwhile, they can sell their bitcoins obtained for mere pennies for ungodly profits. As long as the price continues to increase, people aren't converting back to fiat and new people will continue to buy in. Like on this recent dip, I always hear "buy on the dips". Suckers!! At some point, the "market" will decrease significantly causing millions of people to sell and attempt to convert back to fiat. But there won't be any liquidity left as the original investors have been cashing out. New investors giving their money to old investors. It's a classic ponzi scheme, the largest in history.

So you have a $1,000,000 porfolio and understand it's a ponzi scheme. Oh shit, time to sell!! Well, good luck. Coinbase withdrawal limit is only $10k per day. There just isn't an easy way to convert large amounts, a fact that is always overlooked. The fact of the matter is most people have already lost most of their money. They just don't know it yet.

Poloniex updated their ToS to include the inability to be involved in class action lawsuits the day before Bitcoin forked. Why, coinicidence? If you went to sleep with 1 BTC @ $2800, you woke up with 1 BTC @ $2800 and 1 BCH @ $400. $400 of "free money". From where? Coinbase, one of the few exchanges that allows conversion back to fiat, refused to release their customers BCH until January. Why so long? Because that $400 doesn't exist, they don't want anyone selling, for obvious reasons. Roger Ver probably has 100,000 BTC, so he had a $40,000,000 pay day, just for owning it. And you better believe he's already cashed out. But have any of you? Poloniex refused to release their BCH until August 14th, my best guess being they were waiting for someone to question where the $400 came from. Seriously, am I the only one questioning it? We dodged a bullet. And remember, that $400 from nowhere is also sloshing around in other cryptocurrencies. Ethereum will fork not once, but twice the end of this month. Why twice? Knowing what you know now about Bitcoin Cash, makes a little more sense doesn't it. Do you see anything wrong with my logic?

Roger Ver has parts in Bitpay, BitStamp, Kraken, Shapeshift, Purse, Ripple...everything Bitcoin. He's, well, Bitcoin Jesus. But he'd be prosecuted and hung by his balls, right? Well, not exactly.

https://qz.com/221598/marriott-is-helping-bitcoin-jesus-sell-cheap-citizenship-in-the-caribbean/

The only reason I know is because Poloniex stole $17k that would be $250k today from me and I've been trying to prove it ever since. Yeah I went a little bigger, huh? We've been had fellas. Sure, laugh, you all better pray I'm wrong.

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ETH: 0xb6F4a3974Da40Ba92377bF8E61C3E8323f1ba326
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September 04, 2017, 09:06:19 AM
 #2

you are funny.... there is no logic in the post,just  jealousy towards R.Ver and early adopters,although I myself is not a fan of his
bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme,it has been discussed a million of times
and yes,you are wrong,money can be called a ponzi scheme,too

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gentlemand
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September 04, 2017, 01:54:56 PM
 #3

Well, I guess it's time to pack up and go home then. Thanks nobody poster for pointing out something that's been staring us in the face for years. Closing all my accounts now.

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September 04, 2017, 04:09:44 PM
 #4

The overwhelming majority of Bitcoin in existence was obtained for essentially nothing by miners and early adopters for mere pennies. Roger Ver probably has 100,000.

Because few people knew of Bitcoin and even fewer people understood its value.


Until mid 2016, the price had remained mostly steady, although still volatile. In just the last year Bitcoins value has increased from $500 to almost $5000. But what is causing the price to rise so quickly to there incredible levels?

Because the 2013 bubbles brought Bitcoin to the attention of a lot of people, but also traumatized the market after spectacular crashes, causing a lot of money to wait on the sidelines.


You want to believe its because more people are entering the market, but that's not how it works.

That's exactly how it works.


Cryptocurrency is unregulated, meaning it's completely possible for there not to be a market at all, but a market simulation. I'm telling you the market IS a simulation.

This would require a very expensive global exchange conspiracy. If you'd manipulate a single exchange and people weren't willing to buy Bitcoin at current prices, arbitrage would kick in and people would just sell their coins on the manipulated exchange. Besides, fiat gets paid out. Do you think exchanges cover those expenses?


People are seeing the consistent price increases in pretty much everything and don't want to miss out, so more and more people are buying in. We all have dreams of Bitcoin hitting $100,000 or higher.

That's how market speculation works.


Then we've got people like Roger Ver, Jeff Berwick, Andreas M. Antonopoulos touting Bitcoin as the savior of humanity, which not only convinces more people to buy in, but also hold. And to be fair, maybe Berwick and Andreas are as naive as we are, but they were in early. This creates market liquidity.

To be fair, Bitcoin does offer an incredible value proposition.


Meanwhile, they can sell their bitcoins obtained for mere pennies for ungodly profits. As long as the price continues to increase, people aren't converting back to fiat and new people will continue to buy in.

If large Bitcoin holders would sell more coins than the market wants, the price would move down, not increase. Alas, apparently the market wanted more coins than were for sale.


Like on this recent dip, I always hear "buy on the dips". Suckers!! At some point, the "market" will decrease significantly causing millions of people to sell and attempt to convert back to fiat.

Markets do retract, that is correct.


But there won't be any liquidity left as the original investors have been cashing out.

This would require the markets to exist of mostly fake liquidity, which as mentioned above is very unlikely.


New investors giving their money to old investors. It's a classic ponzi scheme, the largest in history.

That's not the definition of a ponzi scheme, that's just... trade. You know, buying and selling. Exchange of money for goods.



So you have a $1,000,000 porfolio and understand it's a ponzi scheme. Oh shit, time to sell!! Well, good luck. Coinbase withdrawal limit is only $10k per day. There just isn't an easy way to convert large amounts, a fact that is always overlooked. The fact of the matter is most people have already lost most of their money. They just don't know it yet.

There's more than just Coinbase. And there's a lot of regulations surrounding fiat currencies which is where the withdrawal limits stem from.



Poloniex updated their ToS to include the inability to be involved in class action lawsuits the day before Bitcoin forked. Why, coinicidence?

Because there was no guarantuee that the fork would not cause any technical issues.


If you went to sleep with 1 BTC @ $2800, you woke up with 1 BTC @ $2800 and 1 BCH @ $400. $400 of "free money". From where?

You didn't wake up with USD 400,- of free money but with 1 BCH. That's a slight difference.


Coinbase, one of the few exchanges that allows conversion back to fiat, refused to release their customers BCH until January. Why so long? Because that $400 doesn't exist, they don't want anyone selling, for obvious reasons.

Because they didn't want to support BCH in the first place and actually told people to move their coins off exchange if they wanted to retrieve BCH. They only gave in once enough people started bitchin' around.


Roger Ver probably has 100,000 BTC, so he had a $40,000,000 pay day, just for owning it. And you better believe he's already cashed out. But have any of you?

Of course people cashed out, or are you claiming that every BTC sold on the market was sold by Roger Ver? Holy shit he's everywhere!


Poloniex refused to release their BCH until August 14th, my best guess being they were waiting for someone to question where the $400 came from.

Again, technical reasons are more likely. BCH deployment wasn't a walk in the park and the network took days to stabilize. And again, people were never promised USD 400,-, just 1 BCH.


Seriously, am I the only one questioning it? We dodged a bullet. And remember, that $400 from nowhere is also sloshing around in other cryptocurrencies. Ethereum will fork not once, but twice the end of this month. Why twice? Knowing what you know now about Bitcoin Cash, makes a little more sense doesn't it. Do you see anything wrong with my logic?

See above.

Roger Ver has parts in Bitpay, BitStamp, Kraken, Shapeshift, Purse, Ripple...everything Bitcoin. He's, well, Bitcoin Jesus. But he'd be prosecuted and hung by his balls, right? Well, not exactly.

Being stakeholder in a company doesn't give you full control over it.

The only reason I know is because Poloniex stole $17k that would be $250k today from me and I've been trying to prove it ever since. Yeah I went a little bigger, huh? We've been had fellas. Sure, laugh, you all better pray I'm wrong.

So... what happened? What exactly did Poloniex supposedly steal from you?

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September 04, 2017, 04:24:16 PM
 #5

He is so angry and called bitcoin everything and yet he posted his bitcoin and ETH address at the end. Wow!
I guess he still want to have some of it or be part of it.
You lost a lot that is why you will think like that. You might have been right with some of the points but not everything.
I am happy some of the users here have their own opinion not just going with the flow.

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September 04, 2017, 09:31:44 PM
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He is so angry and called bitcoin everything and yet he posted his bitcoin and ETH address at the end. Wow!
I guess he still want to have some of it or be part of it.
You lost a lot that is why you will think like that. You might have been right with some of the points but not everything.
I am happy some of the users here have their own opinion not just going with the flow.
I thought I was the who saw that part but I am glad you pointed it out for someone who stood against something and still believe in it is double standard if you ask me. I will the refrain from attacking the messenger rather than the message and that's what it has been sum up to in that let's assume they are all wrong I mean the early adopters does that also mean the whole of Chinese crypto community are wrong? Or the Chinese or the Japanese among other countries down to multinationals that have indicated their interest in bitcoin over the years?.

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September 04, 2017, 09:33:40 PM
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Bitcoin is a Ponzi Scheme. Here's my btc wallet. Please contribute. Funny Guy.
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September 04, 2017, 09:53:52 PM
 #8



Coinbase withdrawal limit is only $10k per day. There just isn't an easy way to convert large amounts, a fact that is always overlooked. The fact of the matter is most people have already lost most of their money. They just don't know it yet.


10000k bitcoins will take you awhile to turn to cash.
does not look like a ponzi to me.

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September 04, 2017, 09:58:10 PM
 #9

You're trying to act smart with your theories, OP, but you've failed to do your research.
Quote
In just the last year Bitcoins value has increased from $500 to almost $5000.

Wrong, the price has reached $1000 in 2013 and remained above $600 for at least 5 months in 2014, so it's not like it went from $500 to $5000 in a year. It actually took 14 months straight since the last ~$500 point in 2016, but it was obvious people oversold in 2015 when they allowed the price to go below $200. You had to be crazy to sell at those prices.

Also, according to you early buyers like Andreas are the ponzi masterminds, convincing people to buy. So all those huge investors, companies, millionaires, they are all listening to Andreas, Roger and all the other geeky early adopters, right? They don't have their own brains and haven't done any research, they need to read nerd stories on reddit to know where to put their millions... I'm out.

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September 05, 2017, 01:37:40 PM
 #10

You're trying to act smart with your theories, OP, but you've failed to do your research.
Quote
In just the last year Bitcoins value has increased from $500 to almost $5000.

Wrong, the price has reached $1000 in 2013 and remained above $600 for at least 5 months in 2014, so it's not like it went from $500 to $5000 in a year. It actually took 14 months straight since the last ~$500 point in 2016, but it was obvious people oversold in 2015 when they allowed the price to go below $200. You had to be crazy to sell at those prices.
Also, according to you early buyers like Andreas are the ponzi masterminds, convincing people to buy. So all those huge investors, companies, millionaires, they are all listening to Andreas, Roger and all the other geeky early adopters, right? They don't have their own brains and haven't done any research, they need to read nerd stories on reddit to know where to put their millions... I'm out.

The bolded part is one important place that the media always shy away from by focusing on only the part of movement without considering the amount of time it took as well as crashes that happen along the way in other to get to the point they are focusing on the same thing Op is doing. I am sure you must be happy with your analogy based on the current price but unfortunately the reason why the price is showing a downward trend is not one the reasons you alluded and could be traced to something that holds tight.
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September 07, 2017, 04:17:44 PM
 #11

Are you kidding Huh really low your way of thinking, bitcoin has more value not because of limited supply.
if you learn more deeply surely you know what technology is in Bitcoin.
do you really understand about blockchain ?

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September 09, 2017, 01:08:31 AM
 #12

Are you kidding Huh really low your way of thinking, bitcoin has more value not because of limited supply.
if you learn more deeply surely you know what technology is in Bitcoin.
do you really understand about blockchain ?

OP, Bitcoin does not fit the definition of Ponzi scheme for various reasons:

There are no paid dividends to any investors.
The purpose of using bitcoin isn’t to recruit new participants. 
There’s no centralized body that funnels money up to the top.
Unlike Ponzi schemes, Bitcoin will still have value and continue to function even if no new participants join the ecosystem.

you are conflating the "greater fool theory" with "ponzi scheme". let me define;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory

Quote
The greater fool theory states that the price of an object is determined not by its intrinsic value, but rather by irrational beliefs and expectations of market participants.[1] A price can be justified by a rational buyer under the belief that another party is willing to pay an even higher price.[2][3][4] In other words, one may pay a price that seems "foolishly" high because one may rationally have the expectation that the item can be resold to a "greater fool" later.

In the stock market, the greater fool theory applies when many investors make a questionable investment, with the assumption that they will be able to sell it later to "a greater fool". In other words, they buy something not because they believe that it is worth the price, but rather because they believe that they will be able to sell it to someone else at an even higher price.[8] It is also called survivor investing. It is similar in concept to the Keynesian beauty contest principle of stock investing.

but a ponzi scheme? nah Wink

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September 09, 2017, 03:19:28 AM
 #13

Is this a troll post?? Is this even serious?? Pretends he knows what a ponzi is, yet links to a video explaining it, and it just proves bitcoin is not ponzi???
I can get my money out anytime I please.
There is no operator
Bitcoin itself is not fraudulent
money does not pile up to the original investors like a triangle, I can buy 100,000 bitcoins and have much more profits than original investors

OP is troll
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September 09, 2017, 03:39:15 AM
 #14

Good luck touting that idea here.. We all heard it before.

1. there are many ways to cash out large amounts of coins.. you can do over $200,000 K on kraken no problem!

2. If bitcoin was a ponzi then many large companys that accept it would have nothing to do with it.. It would have been attacked by goverments and every exchnage owner arrested and jailed.

3. It sounds to me like you had a lot of shorts on and you lost out we see topics here many times before saying bitcoin is a scam its ponzi. News flash.. We live in a ponzi world. FIAT is ponzi banks spent out money they lose they get bailed out by the tax payers they lose some more they take more bail out money from who?  you guessed it tax payers..  So everything is really a ponzi.

4. What about miners? If bitcoin is a ponzi then what purpose would mining be? why would satoshi not have pre-mined bitcoin all coins and distrobuted them via the exchanges? why go to the trouble to create a de-central network of machines or was that planned to so we could have companys churning out asic and gpu's?

5. Bitcoin was not gained "easy"  yes sure in the early days you could mine on PC then GPU now ASIC but you need to realise that without the easy adoption at the start then we would not have all what is set before us today!

6. At some point the price will reduce again but so dose the value of the coins in your pocket or the money in your bank dew to the same reasons

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September 09, 2017, 04:43:55 AM
 #15

Yes Bitcoin works like a Ponzi scheme. If it succeed, it's considered as a groundbreaking innovation, let invest into it. If it fails, people will call it a Ponzi scheme.That's how this world works.

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September 09, 2017, 05:55:36 AM
 #16


Quote

OP, Bitcoin does not fit the definition of Ponzi scheme for various reasons:

There are no paid dividends to any investors.
The purpose of using bitcoin isn’t to recruit new participants. 
There’s no centralized body that funnels money up to the top.
Unlike Ponzi schemes, Bitcoin will still have value and continue to function even if no new participants join the ecosystem.


According to the strict definition of a ponzi, I really think that Bitcoin will not qualify. Plus we have to understand that the value of Bitcoin is going up and can also go down...a feature not included in the ponzi definition. What analysts are saying is that Bitcoin can be a bubble...I think that is where the debate is and not that it is a ponzi.

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September 09, 2017, 10:46:38 AM
 #17

it can be true...if so them other fiat asset are ponzi too!
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September 09, 2017, 10:57:48 AM
 #18

I read your OP hoping you were wrong.... fortunately, you absolutely were Smiley

Cashing out btc is simple if you don't fear KYC, and exchangers are covering their own ass ass usual. Roger Vern is rich just because he knew about it first and invested in it like a maniac. Your arguments are invalid.

                               
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September 09, 2017, 10:59:11 AM
 #19

Why nobody wants to holler, that "Dollar is a ponzi scheme"?

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September 12, 2017, 02:00:03 PM
 #20

Ohh Really ? Then what are you doing on this forum which is specially for bitcoins. I think you have tried to get more views for youtube videos; good attempt.
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