Bitcoin Forum
December 05, 2016, 07:00:15 PM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 [6]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin Austrian Economic Study Group  (Read 11535 times)
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980


View Profile
January 29, 2011, 04:55:52 PM
 #101


No, I asserted it. Big difference.
While I would love to discuss this with you, this is not the thread to do it.(Not to mention, a hint of emotional response which tell me that there's merit!)

So, start your own damn thread.

1480964415
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480964415

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480964415
Reply with quote  #2

1480964415
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1480964415
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480964415

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480964415
Reply with quote  #2

1480964415
Report to moderator
Babylon
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336



View Profile
January 30, 2011, 07:48:08 PM
 #102

I maintain that without the legal fiction of a company they could not.  Companies are not real things, they are legal fictions.

They externalize cost, through government, without government they could not function more efficiently.

If you've ever been involved in a co-op, they tend to operate extremely inefficiently.

If you're arguing that corporations as we know them would not exist without government, I completely agree with you. Subsidized security is the best thing the state has to offer the mega corporation. The more geographically dispersed resources you have, the more benefit you gain from having the state protect those resources, versus if you had to explicitly pay to have them protected. That said, if there were no state, I don't think the world would turn into an anarcho-socialist commune. I think you would see the large corporations dissolve or break up into smaller businesses, some of which might be run by the workers.

Babylon, gene...

It seemed earlier like you guys were arguing for the state, now it seems like you're arguing against it, and for something like anarcho-socialism. If that is the case, why are we arguing? We both agree that society would be better served without a state. The only difference is that you think the best society is one where there is no private ownership of property (MoP), whereas we do. If you try to enforce your opinion on how society should form lacking a state, how are you acting any differently than the state itself? Lacking states, there will be more than enough room in this world for all sorts of different voluntary organizations of society.

Different sorts of Anarchists often seem to be arguing for a state when debating since we have different ideas as to what constitutes bad power. 

The main reason that, IMO, Capitalist and Socialist anarchists need to keep debating is that I doubt that corporations would simply wither away if the framework of government were removed.  Yes, a Democratic government is far from an ideal solution, and yes the corporations do capture it and use it to enrich themselves.  However it is still preferable to the corporations ruling directly, which is what will happen if they are left in possession of all the resources that they currently possess without the government to keep them in line.

I have no problem with market anarchists, in fact I am one, as are many of you who label yourself capitalist, but as long as there is support for ownership of capital determining production, rather than actual use of production determining production then there is support for government.

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980


View Profile
January 30, 2011, 08:01:51 PM
 #103

I have no problem with market anarchists, in fact I am one, as are many of you who label yourself capitalist, but as long as there is support for ownership of capital determining production, rather than actual use of production determining production then there is support for government.

Great, but please start your own thread.

gene
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252


View Profile
January 30, 2011, 08:46:45 PM
 #104

[...] but as long as there is support for ownership of capital determining production, rather than actual use of production determining production then there is support for government.

This concisely encapsulates the essence what I see as the fundamental contradiction in "libertarianism," which I have never seen addressed by the Auburn crowd.

*processing payment* *error 404 : funds not found*
Do you want to complain on the forum just to fall for another scam a few days later?
| YES       |        YES |
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980


View Profile
January 30, 2011, 09:04:47 PM
 #105

[...] but as long as there is support for ownership of capital determining production, rather than actual use of production determining production then there is support for government.

This concisely encapsulates the essence what I see as the fundamental contradiction in "libertarianism," which I have never seen addressed by the Auburn crowd.

This is still offtopic. Please start your own thread.

BitterTea
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294



View Profile
January 30, 2011, 10:39:13 PM
 #106

I've started a new thread for discussing the private ownership of capital.
The Script
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336



View Profile
February 02, 2011, 02:27:03 AM
 #107


So, back to the Austrian economics study group....  Tongue   If anyone is still paying attention to this thread and is still interested I would recommend either "The Case Against the Fed" by Murray Rothbard or "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlett.  I realize these are "introductory" books and not full-fledged Austrian classics, but as the previous attempt aimed too high perhaps this is the best way to start.  These books are not too long nor very heavy reading and yet have excellent applicable concepts.  Let me know if anyone is on board with this.



praxeologist
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 91



View Profile
February 02, 2011, 04:42:32 PM
 #108

I still suggest Lessons for a Young Economist, now available in HTML too here. I really think that it is better to learn about praxeology first and start small before really tackling the problems we have today. Certain philosophical doctrines are so dominant today that people are unable to even consider that we could get genuine scientific knowledge from the social sciences, so I think it goes a long way to see why what we're doing is scientific and not just mere opinion or wordplay.

MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666



View Profile
February 03, 2011, 08:29:36 AM
 #109

I've already suggested even simplier, by recommending Whatever Happened to Penny Candy from the Uncle Eric series, which is also based on praxeology, but no one would bite.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1778



View Profile WWW
February 03, 2011, 09:04:07 AM
 #110

The form of biting implemented in browsers by clicking on the displayed string doesn't seem to work, which seems to detract from the biteableness of the referred text. Wink

My browser did however bite on an earlier recommendation but I have not yet gotten to the thusly created browser-tab to actualy digest bitten-off tabful of data.

-MarkM- (And it's the one claiming to be html I 'bat', not pdf or suchlike (those would have lower priority for technical reasons.)

(Thinking of html versus other formats reminds me Bucky Fuller's "Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth" is html. What the heck brand of economics if any would that fall into? Un-austrian? Somewhat austrian? Anti-austrian? Not-economics? Pseudo-economics? Etc...)

(Yes I know, I too failed to make my mention biteable. What for would a link to the BFI be wanted here if e.g. it is totally alien to all things austrian?)



Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
The Script
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336



View Profile
February 04, 2011, 05:21:43 AM
 #111


I would be fine with "Whatever Happened to Penny Candy".  I'm just very poor so was trying to find books I knew were free online in PDF form.  However, it is possible my local library would have a copy I can check out.  Let's do it.  I keep getting more and more opportunities to argue with Keynsianists and Statists.  I need to fill in the holes in my Austrian education.  I will find a copy somewhere I can read.  We can discuss it focusing on praxeology and then move on to something a little more complicated.  Let's DO this.  Who's in?

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980


View Profile
February 04, 2011, 04:14:28 PM
 #112


I would be fine with "Whatever Happened to Penny Candy".  I'm just very poor so was trying to find books I knew were free online in PDF form. 

You don't need to worry about finding Austrian economic books because mises.org offered some of the largest selection of free economic books.

MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666



View Profile
February 04, 2011, 04:15:08 PM
 #113

If the library doesn't have it, request it through inter-library loan.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
austinlorenz
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4


View Profile
February 27, 2011, 08:43:15 PM
 #114

http://www.coordinationproblem.org/2010/07/why-graduate-students-not-only-should-but-must-read-rothbards-man-economy-and-state.html

Quote
When I teach my PhD course in the Austrian Theory of the Market Process I assign four required books that in my opinion students must master to make a contribution to the this literature --- Mises, Human Action; Hayek, Individualism and Economic Order; Kirzner, Competition and Entrepreneurship; and Rothbard, Man, Economy and State.


marcus_of_augustus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2086



View Profile
February 28, 2011, 12:26:40 AM
 #115


F. Hayek's "Road to Serfdom" is a bit of a foundation stone to get one started with.

Axel
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4


View Profile
February 28, 2011, 07:38:43 AM
 #116

Its a very good idea to have group of bit coiners where we can discuss with each other . I think this forum is the best to share our ideas in shape of groups as bit coiners . Are you ready for it ?

Vishal Bhatia (http://www.vishalbhatia.com/Training.htm)
hazek
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


View Profile
March 01, 2011, 06:26:17 PM
 #117

How do you propose this group should work?

I have some ideas regarding the ideas of "free banking" of Selgin and White and the problems bitcoin would have once it reaches its "coin" limit, and how to solve this problem.

LOL look who I found. You are the same hugolp as on ronpaulforums right? Cheesy I guess it's true what they say about great minds and all that.. Grin


Damn it, a day should have more hours cause now I have to get up to speed on this thread and join in Tongue

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
BitterTea
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294



View Profile
March 01, 2011, 06:45:20 PM
 #118

I just bought Tom Wood's Rollback. I read the first couple of chapters so far and it is quite excellent.

I was sold after watching this video.
The Script
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336



View Profile
March 04, 2011, 05:11:27 AM
 #119

I just bought Tom Wood's Rollback. I read the first couple of chapters so far and it is quite excellent.

I was sold after watching this video.

Ha, nice.  My Austrian economics group is reading this book in the next two weeks.  I'm looking forward to it.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 [6]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!