What happens when the US makes crypto-currency illegal?

[Zarathustra]

For future reference, if you are struggling to get the clear meaning of a word go to Google and enter "define: " and the word.  Works every time. 

No, does not work. That is not the language of the humans. It's orwell speak. It is the language of the domestic humans, the brainwashed, the happy slaves, the protection money payers (mafiosi).
Ask a real human (there are still some of them in the rain forest or at the arctic tundra), if a domestic human (collectivised protection money payer and destroyer of the flora and fauna) is a human. You'll get the correct answer.

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[Hawker]

   A legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized.

It's an opinion. It doesn't tell me what a citizen factually is. You can't prove anything with an opinion. You prove something with facts and evidences that back these facts.

   An inhabitant of a particular town or city.

Do cockroaches and dogs live in cities? If yes, than cockroaches and dogs are also citizens, right?

Are those (humans, dogs and cockroaches) that don't live in a particular city non-citizens then?

Why do you blindly rely on google?

Hmm, so when presented with the definition of a citizen, you are not happy its "factual."

How stupid did you say you are?

[Hawker]

For future reference, if you are struggling to get the clear meaning of a word go to Google and enter "define: " and the word.  Works every time. 

No, does not work. That is not the language of the humans. It's orwell speak. It is the language of the domestic humans, the brainwashed, the happy slaves, the protection money payers (mafiosi).
Ask a real human (there are still some of them in the rain forest or at the arctic tundra), if a domestic human (collectivised protection money payer and destroyer of the flora and fauna) is a human. You'll get the correct answer.

Again with the denigration of everyone who disagrees with you.  You are human and those who disagree with you are not.

Pathetic. 

[Hawker]

Both you guys are at war with the English language.  Its pathetic that you think you are superior to everyone else because you refuse to accept words in their common meaning.  I wonder if you two have redefined 'sex' to include wanking and if you think that makes you better lovers than anyone else?

[Zarathustra]

Both you guys are at war with the English language.  Its pathetic that you think you are superior to everyone else because you refuse to accept words in their common meaning.  I wonder if you two have redefined 'sex' to include wanking and if you think that makes you better lovers than anyone else?

Yes, the English language is not my native language. It is the language of the hegemonial giga-collective of so called 'humans', which they are not, and which (most of them) do not speak any other language. But also my native language, the German language is an orwellian language.
WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH, CITIZENS (SLAVES, DOMESTIC PIGS/HUMANS) ARE HUMANS etc.

[bezzeb]

Hi Bitcoiners,

At some point in the not too distant future, the government of the United States will figure out that Bitcoin is a very high risk to its Hedgmony. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony, Alan Greenspan loved this word.) The United States will make cryto-currency illegal because it will threaten the government's form of money (Federal Reserve Notes). Something similar happened on April 5, 1933 with Executive Order 6102. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102). History tends to repeat itself.

Those who disobey the upcoming Executive Order or new law will learn what truly backs a Federal Reserve Note, that is, the force of its military and growing internal police state.

What is the solution to prevent the United States government from implementing such an action against cryto-currency?

The children on this forum have seemed to have gone way off topic.  Back to the OP, there is no silver bullet solution and I wish you the best of luck.

But I'd remind you that the USA is a very small part of the world by population with a disproportionately large influence which one could argue is partially ill gained.  (The vast and worthy innovations and contributions from the US to the world aside, sending national troops to enforce private profits in the banana, oil, guano, fill in the blank sectors - is exploitive bullshit verging on criminal theft and murder.)

The US is also a fading empire which currently exhibits many if not all the negative indicators which have repeated through history as empires fall.

So my point is, as someone who doesn't live in the US:  The world is sick the USA Hegemony.  If Bitcoins are made illegal in the US (confiscation as in 1933 isn't possible with BTC) then it would set the US back, but the rest of the world would (I think) raise an eyebrow and shrug.  It would also be a powerful legitimizing force if a ban went into effect as it would tell everyone in the world the gold confiscation message:  Gold (now BTC) is valuable and we dont want a public that owns it.  What does Joe Public say?  I'm gonna get me some!!  The prohibition of alcohol and today with illicit drugs, tells us that banning something just makes it more valuable in the long run and denies you the privilege of taxation.  It also teach us that market forces will just take big profits underground while cash balloons for taser, handcuff and prison suppliers.

In the end, the world needs to evolve into a place that doesn't really give a damn about what silly crap any one country is up to.  Where the good examples of good countries will inspire other nations to borrow the things that work to improve.  If the US excludes itself from boarding the Bitcoin bus, then it can board the next bus some day when it gets over itself.  Take solace in the rapid pace of improvements in life for those outside of US borders because this is proceeding rapidly leaving the globe with a net positive trend despite setbacks in places like the US.  (gapminder.org)

[Loozik]

Hmm, so when presented with the definition of a citizen, you are not happy its "factual."

You presented a non-definition, according to which cockroaches inhibiting in a city are citizens.

How stupid did you say you are?

Come on, how stupid are you?

[abbyd]

"Citizen bitchez" please get a room somewhere else, this started as a good thread!

Those who disobey the upcoming Executive Order or new law will learn what truly backs a Federal Reserve Note, that is, the force of its military and growing internal police state.

What is the solution to prevent the United States government from implementing such an action against crypto-currency?

This is a bit overstated - USG won't need to break out guns to contain Bitcoin.

The various organizations who should theoretically want to regulate and/or quash Bitcoin are already overtly engaged in manuevers:

* FinCEN: announced GLOBAL guidelines (completely overstepping their jurisdiction)
* The Fed: policy paper is circulating from the ECB, likely there are a hundred more we don't know about
* CIA: Gavin gave a talk there, and likely is wiretapped and backdoored to hell and back
* Wall Street corporate entities: already heavily involved in BTC arbitrage, price fixing, trading bots, other destabilizing tricks

(BTW, I think it's fair to include Wall Street corporations in this list, given their complete "regulatory capture" of the USG. )

This leads me to be strongly of the opinion that a durable distributed crypto-currency should do everything in it's power to retain a position of strength.  This means to actively develop around attack vectors which are not currently presented.  A sub-set of this is to remain jealously 'peer2peer' and to actively foster similar, and even 'competing' systems such that it would be less likely to successfully attack at one point.

Good points - I suspect we can look at the Bittorrent wars as a model for attempts to shut down the Bitcoin P2P network:

Measure / Countermeasure:
* Malicious nodes / Node blacklisting
* Port blocking / Port randomization
* Insane litigation / Grandma arrest fallout
* User busts / More VPN users
* ISP traffic throttling / Protocol encryption
* FUD, "terrists" / Geeky pro-BTC media campaigns


Right now it would appear that core devs are not committed to securing the network against a governmental attack, although they've dealt with various hack and double spend attacks quite efficiently. Placing their eggs in the "friendly regulation" basket allows them to be blissfully ignorant of the extortive and coercive elements of the USG. Also, geeks tend to focus more on technical vulnerabilities and less on bureaucratic/legal attacks. 

I'm guessing some geeks at Palantir (or some such company we've never heard of) are currently engaged in wargames scenarios to take down the bitcoin network. Anybody working there care to leak a Powerpoint? 

[Loozik]

Both you guys are at war with the English language.

And you are dodging questions.

If you ever think you can prove you are a citizen, BTC 100 + USD 25,000 will be waiting for you.

[Hawker]

Both you guys are at war with the English language.

And you are dodging questions.

If you ever think you can prove you are a citizen, BTC 100 + USD 25,000 will be waiting for you.

Again, google it.  Only a fool thinks that by refusing to accept the meaning of words, he is superior.  If the common meaning of the word "citizen" is not good enough for you, that makes you a fool.  

[Hawker]

Both you guys are at war with the English language.  Its pathetic that you think you are superior to everyone else because you refuse to accept words in their common meaning.  I wonder if you two have redefined 'sex' to include wanking and if you think that makes you better lovers than anyone else?

Yes, the English language is not my native language. It is the language of the hegemonial giga-collective of so called 'humans', which they are not, and which (most of them) do not speak any other language. But also my native language, the German language is an orwellian language.
WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH, CITIZENS (SLAVES, DOMESTIC PIGS/HUMANS) ARE HUMANS etc.

Hmmm.  A German saying other people are "so called 'humans' which they are not."

Perhaps the word you want for these "so called 'humans' which they are not" is untermenschen?  I'm sure if you search your history, you will find lots of people with solutions to the problem of "so called 'humans' which they are not."  Perhaps you, being the smart little man you are, can find a final solution?

[Moebius327]

Both you guys are at war with the English language.  Its pathetic that you think you are superior to everyone else because you refuse to accept words in their common meaning.  I wonder if you two have redefined 'sex' to include wanking and if you think that makes you better lovers than anyone else?

Yes, the English language is not my native language. It is the language of the hegemonial giga-collective of so called 'humans', which they are not, and which (most of them) do not speak any other language. But also my native language, the German language is an orwellian language.
WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH, CITIZENS (SLAVES, DOMESTIC PIGS/HUMANS) ARE HUMANS etc.

Hmmm.  A German saying other people are "so called 'humans' which they are not."

Perhaps the word you want for these "so called 'humans' which they are not" is untermenschen?  I'm sure if you search your history, you will find lots of people with solutions to the problem of "so called 'humans' which they are not."  Perhaps you, being the smart little man you are, can find a final solution?

This thread is going offtopic. I suggest you leave the racial discussion behind.


US Gov going to war with crypto-currencies - a lost battle.

[Vycid]

This thread is going offtopic. I suggest you leave the racial discussion behind.


US Gov going to war with crypto-currencies - a lost battle.

Think so? I don't think the government would waste time outlawing it if it wanted Bitcoin gone.

US Goverment contracts with Intel for $50M to develop a buttload of 22nm SHA-256 ASICs. 51% attacks the living hell out of the network; the loss of profitability causes miners to drop out and the government gains proportionally more and more of the blocks.

Game over.

[Hawker]

Both you guys are at war with the English language.  Its pathetic that you think you are superior to everyone else because you refuse to accept words in their common meaning.  I wonder if you two have redefined 'sex' to include wanking and if you think that makes you better lovers than anyone else?

Yes, the English language is not my native language. It is the language of the hegemonial giga-collective of so called 'humans', which they are not, and which (most of them) do not speak any other language. But also my native language, the German language is an orwellian language.
WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH, CITIZENS (SLAVES, DOMESTIC PIGS/HUMANS) ARE HUMANS etc.

Hmmm.  A German saying other people are "so called 'humans' which they are not."

Perhaps the word you want for these "so called 'humans' which they are not" is untermenschen?  I'm sure if you search your history, you will find lots of people with solutions to the problem of "so called 'humans' which they are not."  Perhaps you, being the smart little man you are, can find a final solution?

This thread is going offtopic. I suggest you leave the racial discussion behind.


US Gov going to war with crypto-currencies - a lost battle.

Fair enough.  Zarathustra + Loozik - if you want to pursue your thesis that most people are subhumans because they rejoice in being citizens, then the Politics and Society board awaits you.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=34.0

I agree with Moebius327 - a government can't ban Bitcoin.  It will make things difficult as Bitcoin is the type of disruptive innovation that causes people to freak out but it can't stop people using it.

[Zarathustra]

Hmmm.  A German saying other people are "so called 'humans' which they are not."

I did not say I am a German. My native language is German only. That does not necessary mean that I am a German.

Perhaps the word you want for these "so called 'humans' which they are not" is untermenschen?

No. Don't put words in my mouth. As I explained already: glückliche und unglückliche Sklaven (happy and unhappy Slaves), Mafiosi (protection money payers), Kollektivisten (collectivists), Bürger (citizens), domestizierte Menschen (domesticated humans).

I'm sure if you search your history,

My history???

... you will find lots of people with solutions to the problem of "so called 'humans' which they are not."  Perhaps you, being the smart little man you are, can find a final solution?

Yes, that would be easy: Don't accept orwell speak of the common anymore, don't accept to be ruled, civilized, domesticated and brainwashed anymore. If everybody would do that: problem solved.

[Loozik]

Zarathustra + Loozik - if you want to pursue your thesis that most people are subhumans because they rejoice in being citizens, then the Politics and Society board awaits you.

What have you smoked today?

[Hawker]

This thread is going offtopic. I suggest you leave the racial discussion behind.


US Gov going to war with crypto-currencies - a lost battle.

Think so? I don't think the government would waste time outlawing it if it wanted Bitcoin gone.

US Goverment contracts with Intel for $50M to develop a buttload of 22nm SHA-256 ASICs. 51% attacks the living hell out of the network; the loss of profitability causes miners to drop out and the government gains proportionally more and more of the blocks.

Game over.

Things like Linux have vast infrastructures of people who provide hardware and code because they believe in the concept.  Is it not optional for miners to confirm transactions regardless of profit? 

[Vycid]

This thread is going offtopic. I suggest you leave the racial discussion behind.


US Gov going to war with crypto-currencies - a lost battle.

Think so? I don't think the government would waste time outlawing it if it wanted Bitcoin gone.

US Goverment contracts with Intel for $50M to develop a buttload of 22nm SHA-256 ASICs. 51% attacks the living hell out of the network; the loss of profitability causes miners to drop out and the government gains proportionally more and more of the blocks.

Game over.

Things like Linux have vast infrastructures of people who provide hardware and code because they believe in the concept.  Is it not optional for miners to confirm transactions regardless of profit?  

Sure, but the government has access to technology and production on a scale that individual miners - and even small companies like ASICMiner - do not. If they're serious about killing bitcoin, they just leave the ASICs running and the network is constantly under 51% attack. They could double spend and send coins to random addresses that had been used previously in the blockchain. It'd be chaos.

[Hawker]

This thread is going offtopic. I suggest you leave the racial discussion behind.


US Gov going to war with crypto-currencies - a lost battle.

Think so? I don't think the government would waste time outlawing it if it wanted Bitcoin gone.

US Goverment contracts with Intel for $50M to develop a buttload of 22nm SHA-256 ASICs. 51% attacks the living hell out of the network; the loss of profitability causes miners to drop out and the government gains proportionally more and more of the blocks.

Game over.

Things like Linux have vast infrastructures of people who provide hardware and code because they believe in the concept.  Is it not optional for miners to confirm transactions regardless of profit?  

Sure, but the government has access to technology and production on a scale that individual miners - and even small companies like ASICMiner - do not. If they're serious about killing bitcoin, they just leave the ASICs running and the network is constantly under 51% attack. They could double spend and send coins to random addresses that were used previously in the blockchain. It'd be chaos.

Lets assume you are right; if they did that, is an altcoin that is immune to the 51% attack possible?

[Vycid]

This thread is going offtopic. I suggest you leave the racial discussion behind.


US Gov going to war with crypto-currencies - a lost battle.

Think so? I don't think the government would waste time outlawing it if it wanted Bitcoin gone.

US Goverment contracts with Intel for $50M to develop a buttload of 22nm SHA-256 ASICs. 51% attacks the living hell out of the network; the loss of profitability causes miners to drop out and the government gains proportionally more and more of the blocks.

Game over.

Things like Linux have vast infrastructures of people who provide hardware and code because they believe in the concept.  Is it not optional for miners to confirm transactions regardless of profit?  

Sure, but the government has access to technology and production on a scale that individual miners - and even small companies like ASICMiner - do not. If they're serious about killing bitcoin, they just leave the ASICs running and the network is constantly under 51% attack. They could double spend and send coins to random addresses that were used previously in the blockchain. It'd be chaos.

Lets assume you are right; if they did that, is an altcoin that is immune to the 51% attack possible?

It's a good question. I've seen some efforts to make coins that are much more resistant to 51% attacks, yes, but I haven't done enough reading to give you an answer.

The combination of scrypt and one of those 51%-attack resistance schemes might be sufficient. But you can't underestimate a government that feels its money is threatened. They could turn all the supercomputers at national labs on the network, rent out every Amazon cluster, whatever it takes... $100M is not a lot of money for a government to protect its currency.

Also, China has a lot to lose from Bitcoin. They would have an even easier time doing what I'm describing, since they have most of the electronics manufacturing and are not above telling companies what to do. Hell, they could take over ASICMiner now if they wanted to.